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RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 1:31:05 PM

Louve00

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I'm a liberal, and I voted for Obama. I think you hit the nail on the head, Racquelle. We, as Americans, are going to have to drive that change. Not only is Obama listening to the people, he is talking to the people. He's also said it will take the people to make these changes. In other words, we no longer are silent Americans. Now, we have to take initiative and I believe Obama wants us all involved in that.

I know one thing I'm taking advantage (initiative?) of.
http://www.treas.gov/initiatives/eesa/homeowner-affordability-plan/ExecutiveSummary.pdf
That (hopefully) will give me some sanity back! *grin*

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Post #: 21

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 1:36:23 PM

domiguy

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Voted for Obama. On many topics I hang to the left...I think abortion should be mandatory. I also don't believe you can cure all ills by simply throwing money at the problems.

We will leave Iraq in time. There is a timetable for a pullout and we are going to start reducing our presence in the very near future. It appears that we will be sending more troops into Afghanistan. I hope it is not for the long run.

What the right needs to realize is that Bush was a fairly comprehensive fuck up. Once they come to accept this notion they will truly be better off....I know that there is a long process in dealing with this type of loss,betrayal and grief..Denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance. hopefully you will all come to the acceptance of what a true douche nozzle that this guy was.

To compare Obama to Bush is not fair. Would be similar to comparing Michael Phelps to lil' Stevie Wollinsky, the tard, who swam in circles while competing in the special olympics.

I am not thrilled with the Stimulus plan. I do wish the President the best.

I actually hoped that Bush would have been "right" in his estimation of the war effort in that it would have meant that there would be many fewer grieving American families today....We all know how that worked out.

To hope that Obama fails is dumb. It only means that you wish for your fellow Americans to languish in the grips of this recession.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 3/1/2009 1:37:04 PM >

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RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 2:07:01 PM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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      I would not label myself a liberal, but I'll answer anyway. I first became aware of Obama at the '04 DNC convention. A lot of what he said in his speech resonated with me. I watched him and his campaign. The decision I came to about him was that he simply lacked the level of experience for the job, and that his beliefs about HOW to make the changes were wrong. Nothing I have seen so far has caused me to reject those conclusions. (I've been told this means I'm a racist.) To this point, he has been dealing with known situations, where he and his ever expanding team have had time to look, plan, and talk each other out of the stupidest ideas.

     I have seen that he is a person who can re-evaluate a situation, and shift approach. I like that. We certainly didn't see much of it from the last administration. I think he has come to the right sort of approach on our situation in Iraq.   I find some hope in that. What I have to wonder about is what happens when his first instinct will become an order from the Commander-in-Chief.

     Before too long, something bad is going to happen somewhere. It always does. A Waco, a terrorist event, a seizure of a U.S. embassy... Bad shit happens, claims the focus, and it can come to define a Presidency. When whatever it might be comes along, he will have to deal with it. When that happens, and he has taken on an unexpected challenge from scratch, we'll be able to get some measure of how he is doing.

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Post #: 23

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 2:29:06 PM

domiguy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Before too long, something bad is going to happen somewhere. It always does. A Waco, a terrorist event, a seizure of a U.S. embassy... Bad shit happens, claims the focus, and it can come to define a Presidency. When whatever it might be comes along, he will have to deal with it. When that happens, and he has taken on an unexpected challenge from scratch, we'll be able to get some measure of how he is doing.

This is definitely how one is going to be judged. How do you respond to the unexpected?

If you can manage to keep your zipper up, not lie to the American public and nothing noteworthy comes along you should have a pretty smooth ride as a President. This rarely happens.

Already we have seen ridiculous posts bitching about how Obama has faced his "Hurricane Katrina," to him lying about a stand on assault weapons or how wind farms kill eagles. (poor decapitated eagles)...This kind of shit is nothing compared to what unfortunately lies ahead.

I wish our President nothing but success when it comes to facing these unknowns.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 3/1/2009 2:34:17 PM >

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RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 2:36:29 PM

aravain

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
The decision I came to about him was that he simply lacked the level of experience for the job, and that his beliefs about HOW to make the changes were wrong. Nothing I have seen so far has caused me to reject those conclusions. (I've been told this means I'm a racist.)

ditto (on the racism thing, too)

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Post #: 25

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 2:38:21 PM

awmslave

Posts: 599
Joined: 3/31/2006
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quote:

Has he measured up to your expectations and, if so, could you share with us what you see that he has done to improve your life or the country that pleases you.

So far for me Obama is the most frightening president I have seen: Trillions deficit spending is scary, US Congress leadership and recent practice how laws are passed is scary, bailouts, Ms. Clinton begging Chinese for money are scary etc....

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Post #: 26

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 2:47:07 PM

domiguy

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Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

So far for me Obama is the most frightening president I have seen:

It is amazing. Your parents have got to get you on the teli. I have never seen someone so young...What?..Why you couldn't be over a couple of months old...gitchygoooo!

You are just darling, cute as a fuckin' button! How did you learn to type? Truly gifted! I must say you have one of the most extensive vocabularies I have ever witnessed for one so young. Want some ice cream?...Open the hanger cuz here it comes....Zoooooooooom!!!!

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Post #: 27

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 2:49:47 PM

corysub

Posts: 1492
Joined: 1/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Before too long, something bad is going to happen somewhere. It always does. A Waco, a terrorist event, a seizure of a U.S. embassy... Bad shit happens, claims the focus, and it can come to define a Presidency. When whatever it might be comes along, he will have to deal with it. When that happens, and he has taken on an unexpected challenge from scratch, we'll be able to get some measure of how he is doing.

This is definitely how one is going to be judged. How do you respond to the unexpected?

If you can manage to keep your zipper up, not lie to the American public and nothing noteworthy comes along you should have a pretty smooth ride as a President. This rarely happens.

Already we have seen ridiculous posts bitching about how Obama has faced his "Hurricane Katrina," to him lying about a stand on assault weapons or how wind farms kill eagles. (poor decapitated eagles)...This kind of shit is nothing compared to what unfortunately lies ahead.

I wish our President nothing but success when it comes to facing these unknowns.

You hit the nail square on the head in that "before too long something is going to happen". As we write these chats, there are some dangerous people out there measuring Obama..figuring out exactly what the answer to your question is with respect to his reaction. Could you imagine the horror if we had 9/11 this year in the face of a truly weak economy. It would be just the final straw for the financial system. And even though I would not be looking to blame the President for an attack at this stage of his new administration, he would indeed.be measured on "how he responds to the "unexpected".

I'm also not disturbed but interested with all the posts done pro and "con" as Obama, the "one" that is singled out is with respect to the native indian reaction to windmills impact on their beloved bald eagles. Personally, I don't give a shit about spotted owls, polar bears or bald eagles...I have never seen a spotted owl and a bald eagle and bear only in a zoo. I am, however, really interested in the wasteful spending and opportunity for corruption in the stimulus disaster that was signed into law, the coming Omnibus bill that has 9,000 earmarks but what the Obama chief budget guy, Office of Management and Budget Director Peter Orszag, said the president will sign the 2009 omnibus spending bill, despite his campaign pledge to reduce earmarks. His answer to George Stephanapoulos was that it's "last years business"..Gimme a fucking break..he's playing with "this years money"..but it gives you some idea of the mentality of these idiots!!

http://abcnews.go.com/ThisWeek/story?id=133369

And I do feel kinda sorry for the bald eagles. I guess the United States can find another bird as our emblem...maybe the "Dodo Bird".

http://www.tapirback.com/tapirgal/gifts/friends/extinct-animals/dodo-bird-plastic-f1353.htm

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 28

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 2:51:37 PM

TheHeretic

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From: California, USA
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Certainly not old enough to remember Carter. Reagan was all scary too, the way he was going to shoot from the hip and blow us all up. And Bill Clinton was going to put his wife in charge of our health care.

People need to take deep breaths and chill. Maybe if enough of them flee the country though, we'll get a decent Repub nominee next time.

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If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

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Post #: 29

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 3:01:10 PM

domiguy

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Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Certainly not old enough to remember Carter. Reagan was all scary too, the way he was going to shoot from the hip and blow us all up. And Bill Clinton was going to put his wife in charge of our health care.

People need to take deep breaths and chill. Maybe if enough of them flee the country though, we'll get a decent Repub nominee next time.

Shut the fuck up...lol....Damn!...How long have "we" had to wait to finally get a decent Dem nominee? JesusfuckingChrist!!...It took the biggest fuckup alive to finally get a Dem in the whitehouse...A black guy at that. Decent human being, fairly fucking sharp. Shit, it was still rather a tight race final score 52 to 48.

Waiting for a decent Dem nominee is akin to being a fucking Cubs fan..."Wait till next year"...It's our mantra. I was under the impression that the party might hit the century mark before being invited back into da house.

Miracles never cease.

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RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 3:08:42 PM

awmslave

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quote:

It is amazing. Your parents have got to get you on the teli. I have never seen someone so young...What?..Why you couldn't be over a couple of months old...gitchygoooo!

R. Nixon was a dark character but Obama is different: more like a candyman from horror movie.

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Post #: 31

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 3:17:49 PM

SpinnerofTales

Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
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quote:

So far for me Obama is the most frightening president I have seen: Trillions deficit spending is scary, US Congress leadership and recent practice how laws are passed is scary, bailouts, Ms. Clinton begging Chinese for money are scary etc....
ORIGINAL: awmslave

Maybe one day you can tell me, awm, why the fact that Bush involved us in a war that is going to cost us a trillion dollars before it's done (we're still spending $200,000,000 every day on that bargain), and did it all as deficit spending with no mention of it in the budget isn's scary and the trillion that Obama is spending makes him a cross between Jason Vorhees, Michael Myers and Freddie Kruger? Why are the bailouts, which both huoses of congress passed in the previous administration less frightening than the one's passed in this one? Just what has you so very frightened of this present administration?

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 32

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 3:17:51 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

How long have "we" had to wait to finally get a decent Dem nominee?

You had a decent nominee? How the hell did I miss that? I thought you just had George Bush II set the stage so perfectly for you, that the Dems could nominate a complete novice, who's ideas had never been tested, and still pull out a 53-47 win?

Why was I not informed about the decent nominee?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to domiguy)

Post #: 33

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 3:28:50 PM

awmslave

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quote:

It took the biggest fuckup alive to finally get a Dem in the whitehouse...A black guy at that. Decent human being, fairly fucking sharp.

What seriously scares me with Obama is the "rookie" factor: young lawyer in unfamiliar territory trying to impress.

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Post #: 34

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 3:31:07 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic
Why was I not informed about the decent nominee?

You know, sometimes personal values and taste account for a lot in a person's evaluation of a politician. I still cannot understand how, to this day, there are still people out there who think George Jr. was a decent man, and I am even more puzzled that there are people out there still ready to defend his appalling, pathetic record as a president: yet, they somehow manage to pull that feat. Perhaps that is what you are experiencing when it comes to Obama, blank puzzlement?

Obama was more than a decent nominee: he was positively stellar. And so says much of the world too

. You have, of course, the right to not share this point of view.

Edited for syntax.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 3/1/2009 3:32:04 PM >

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RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 4:26:00 PM

SpinnerofTales

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quote:

What seriously scares me with Obama is the "rookie" factor: young lawyer in unfamiliar territory trying to impress.ORIGINAL: awmslave

Ok..ok...it's time to make up your minds. On the one hand the refrain is "We have to get the old powers that be (both Democrat and Republican) out of power and bring in new blood. Then, when someone who isn't a Washington Insider 30 years in the sewers gets in the cry is "He's inexperienced! He won't know how to do the job!"

The fact is, NOBODY has any experience being president until they are president. The closest analgous position is Governer and that doesn't come anywhere close to what the job of president entails.

Is Obama a rookie? Yes. Has he shown that he is knows how to get things done? I think he has. Take for example the campaign he waged. He came from nowhere and brought the country around to his side. That's not just policies, that's it's own accomplishment. Yes, I know the Republicans will shout about the left wing media and how it created him. But I say, look at Howard Dean. He too was an out of nowhere Cinderella story and had every bit the chance to become a media darling that Obama did. And look how quickly it slipped out of his fingers.

Whether or not you believe in his policies, there is no way to deny that Obama is smart, ambitious (both personally and policy wise), pragmatic and results oriented. The tremendous fear being generated is a well thought out ploy by the Republican Party and it's supporters to destroy confidence in the administration in order to regain power. That is why they can't say "He's raising taxes by 4% on the top two tax brackets and that will hurt the economy" but feel the need to say "He's a socialist! If he's not stopped everybody will have to make the same wage and we'll be in socialism"....It is a party bankrupt of ideas resorting to fear mongering as it's only avenue to a return to power.

Frankly, I don't know whether or not Obama will live up to the potential that I believe he possesses. He may be a good president or a bad president (conservatives aside, you can't judge a president on their first 6 weeks) but he's not a scary president.

(in reply to awmslave)

Post #: 36

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 4:32:09 PM

Politesub53

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quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave

So far for me Obama is the most frightening president I have seen: Trillions deficit spending is scary,

What scary is you thinking Obama has built up this deficit in just a few weeks, and not being able to work out where the deficit actually came from.

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Post #: 37

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 4:47:06 PM

awmslave

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Joined: 3/31/2006
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quote:

What scary is you thinking Obama has built up this deficit in just a few weeks, and not being able to work out where the deficit actually came from.

According to the White House estimates, the combined deficit for the four years 2009-2012 comes to $4.42 trillion. The net debt of the federal government, what it owes to individuals, businesses and foreign countries, will double, rising from $5.3 trillion to $11 trillion over the same period.

Obama economic advisers think high federal spending will bring country out of recession. There is no proof huge deficit spending will actually do it. I think Obama himself has no clue what it means.

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Post #: 38

RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 4:48:15 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguyWould be similar to comparing Michael Phelps to lil' Stevie Wollinsky, the tard, who swam in circles while competing in the special olympics.

The "tard?" The "tard who swam in circles?" Say, Mr. Politically Correct Social Crusader Guy, aren't you the same one who was so outraged about a cartoon showing a dead monkey last week? Wasn't that you, pissing and moaning about how insensitive it was, and what an injustice it was, and insulting and flaming everyone who disagreed with you? What happened to that guy? How'd he get from there to calling some poor Special Olympics kid a "tard?"

Jesus, what a total hypocrite. I told you before, you really ought to stick with that "class clown" schtick fulltime, so people just automatically know never to take anything you say seriously. It seems like every time you try to discuss serious issues, all you wind up doing is exposing yourself.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 3/1/2009 5:07:16 PM >

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RE: A Question for liberals... - 3/1/2009 4:54:39 PM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: awmslave
I think Obama himself has no clue what it means.

Au contraire, I'm very much convinced that he is more aware than most of what it means. He holds the reins, and he has more knowledge in his hands about this crisis than any of us collarchat posters combined. So, to say that 'he has no clue' is ridiculous at best.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 3/1/2009 4:55:22 PM >

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