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Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 6:02:00 AM

GabrielleSlave

Posts: 616
Joined: 9/20/2007
From: in servitude
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Ok. This post is going to read a little like a journal entry i suspect. But bear with me, as i am trying to work through my thinking here and i need a little help from everyone with my perspective.

Fact - i am a straight, heterosexual female slave. Fact - i have never, in my past or in my present, ever been attracted sexually to any other female. i can appreciate the female form, have no problem with seeing a woman have sex with another woman, in fact it can be beautiful. But for me, it just is not one of my turn ons.

So here's the thing and i reckon it won't take a genius to work out what's coming... My Master wants me to pleasure another woman; to make her cum. In my head my immediate reaction is WOAH hard limit alert!! However, i am a rational person and so i try to reason myself into believing i can do what He wants. i have to admit to being one of those people who, knowing they are a slave, firmly believes in obedience, in following orders and that Sir will look after me. i am not a naive person, i do live in the real world, i know i have real choices and i have not been brainwashed into thinking i have none. i am frustrated with myself. i find myself arguing both sides. One side is 'don't cross a hard limit and He has no right to ask', the other side is 'you are a slave, this is what you signed up for, this is what you want, therefore do it'. The thought of doing what He wants is terrifying i admit; i am trying to work out if it is because of having no clue what to do, or whether there is something more i am not hearing yet. Fear often comes from a lack of information...maybe this is what it is? There is no secret in the fact that although i am female, i have no idea what to do to another female lol!

So, from all my ramblings here, i come to the conclusion that i need opinions, preferably informed ones. Has this been asked of you, or has your Dom asked this of you? If so, how did you manage? Has anyone got any advice? i don't mean advice about red flags ie dump Him and move on; Wwe have been together two years and are incredibly strong. Wwe talked alot last night and i know He is supporting me, but i need other perspectives here...

Thankyou for listening

gabrielle x

_____________________________

Slave to Master Slayer

~ Host of the Rather Marvelous Greenwich Munch ~

"There is no such thing as liberty. You only change one sort of domination for another. All we can do is to choose our master."
D. H. Lawrence

Post #: 1

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 6:18:14 AM

CatdeMedici

Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
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Many men take sex as an act, a task, a function much like tying shoes or farting--they also have this fantasy of a menages, women on women, women on them, them on women--it denotes a good fuck had by all and we all go home to life--not so for many women.

Women see"intimacy" (note I did not say sex) as a private thing, with a relationship as the foundation--it denotes caring, emotion, something to be revered.

Most women, if not wired to be bi, can't wrap their heads around a "sex---task"--its not like men, drop your drawers and just go to it--much like men on men who aren't oriented to men on men.( poly is a whole different ballgame as its relationship oriented, IMHO)

If you weren't bi oriented to begin with--this won't work and IMHO could do some psychological/emotional damage in the long run. Look deep into YOUR wiring and if its not right, tell Him, if you lose Him, well did He really respect your hard limits?

_____________________________

I am the Cat, holder of the whip and chair.

"Let's see-whips, dips, chains, chips, yep sounds like a party to Me!"

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)

Post #: 2

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 6:38:47 AM

STONE1944

Posts: 5
Joined: 5/6/2008
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from a Dom/Master standpoint I have to agree with Cats perspective... while I do certainly find- as do a lot of men- that woman on woman is extremely erotic and appeals to me, I have to appreciate the fact that if the logical tables were turned and she desired me to pleasure another man because it would be erotic for her- I'd rebel- in no uncertain terms because as Gabrielle says, "that's NOT how I'm wired"... and while it's a LT 2 year relationship there, something's definitely missing in my opinion in the Dom/Master that seeks- insists upon- that which appears to push the limits- hard or otherwise- beyond the edge for any sub/slave that is valued and respected as she should be...

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)

Post #: 3

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 6:47:35 AM

robertolapiedra

Posts: 520
Joined: 5/3/2007
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Hello GabrielleSlave. What would you think of a ''Master'' asking a non masochist slave to be torture whipped silly? Asking things that are against the fundamental nature of a person means what to you? What would it mean if your ''Master'' asked you to perform such acts that you find to be against ''your'' nature? Everybody has limits. Doing ''everything'' your ''Master'' asks of you in the name of ''Uberness'' is just plain silly.

I have never asked a submissive to perform acts that are contrary to their nature. If I really wanted a slave that does sex acts with women, I would have one that is bi-sexual not straight. Normally, a slave's fundamental and personal nature is to be respected.

In your case, saying no, it is a limit would be normal. In your Master's case, insisting that you do stuff that is knowingly contrary to your nature is not normal nor very smart in the long run. Maybe he does not believe that you are straight? (that you should be bi?). I think you should have a heart to heart and make sure your dom understands what he is asking of you and the possible consequences of having you do acts contrary to your nature. Good luck. RL

[Mod Note: TOS violation removed]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 3/6/2009 6:34:20 AM >

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)

Post #: 4

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 6:50:36 AM

FullfigRIMAAM1

Posts: 1160
Joined: 11/20/2008
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I am also of the belief that a slave is one according to my terms not his, but I also know that these are human beings approaching capable of many, but not all things.

It is entirely possible that your dom has gotten to a comfort zone with you, that you have not yet arrived at yourself... It's also possible that this is a hard limit you never intended to have pushed. Assuming you did not enter the relationship with "all my hard limits are pliable/temporary" conversation, I'm not too keen on him pushing this very common fantasy on you.
I'm not in your position, but if I were, I would consider this troublesome to the relationship and potentially my well-being. Unfortunately, you will have to decide whether this is a small hurdle for you to overcome, and get over, or a major task which may leave you disappointed and resentful of your dom. M

_____________________________

The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)

Post #: 5

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 6:54:54 AM

GabrielleSlave

Posts: 616
Joined: 9/20/2007
From: in servitude
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Thankyou for your thoughtful answer, i really appreciate your slant on this.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici
Most women, if not wired to be bi, can't wrap their heads around a "sex---task"

For me, if He is asking me to do something to another man, then that is not an issue. Isn't that just a 'sex-task'? How can i therefore, in all honesty say 'yes Master' to that, but 'no Master' to a woman? *sighs* i have done things i have found hard before, but something i am having a tough time with is the thought of ending up having to refuse.... of having failed.

_____________________________

Slave to Master Slayer

~ Host of the Rather Marvelous Greenwich Munch ~

"There is no such thing as liberty. You only change one sort of domination for another. All we can do is to choose our master."
D. H. Lawrence

(in reply to CatdeMedici)

Post #: 6

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 6:55:04 AM

Andalusite

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Joined: 1/25/2009
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I'm heteroflexible, but having casual sex with anyone, regardless of gender, is a hard limit for me. If I was going to be shared with another woman, I would need to love/care about and be attracted to her.

Gabrielle, is there a different activity you would be comfortable doing with another woman, that he would enjoy? Maybe discuss alternatives? Try to think about where the boundary is exactly - would you be comfortable with using your hands, but not your mouth on her pussy? Giving her a massage everywhere except there? Licking or kissing her thigh but not her pussy? Touching her breasts? Her wearing something PVC or latex so you wouldn't be making direct contact/dealing with the taste? Letting her do things to you, but you not reciprocating? Can you handle pleasuring her, but feel incompetent about how to get her to come, or what to do to her? I'd suggest if you did decide to go through with it to not have a specific performance outcome, that would add more pressure, at least the first time. He can specifically order you what to do step by step, so you aren't having to come up with it all on your own. I'm not saying to do one of those other options, but try to narrow down exactly what you can handle, and can't, so you can explain it to him. If you just can't handle it at all, that is fine, too, but I think it's worth knowing in your own mind exactly where that line is.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 3/4/2009 7:06:50 AM >

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)

Post #: 7

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 6:56:40 AM

pinkwind

Posts: 367
Joined: 1/9/2005
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i am not bi, not even curious, and have a Master who wanted me to play with another woman, something i had never ever thought of doing. We talked things through, from both his standpoint and mine, and came to an agreement, which in reality worked very well for me, for all of us.

Basically, i was expected only to go as far as i wanted to go at the time, there was no agenda, no goal, no pressure. Andy was there most of the time, and was rewarded with me being able to take pleasure and give it, enjoying myself taking things a decent bit further than i had anticipated i could have done. Things went at my pace, and Andy understood when things were going into a difficult area, watched and if need be, changed direction for me. It worked!

We have some marvellous photos of the session, some great reminders of how things went, even a few more from a subsequent meeting too. Andy was more than happy, and i did what i promised, tried my very best and exceeded expectation.

Negotiate, but don't set huge barriers against you enjoying yourself and being able to go that extra mile. i am happy i did this, have been told that the mechanism is still in place, if he decides we should do it all again. Things will still be at my pace, and will go just as far as my desire outwits my reticence!

i cannot advise you, only to say talk things through, be honest with yourself as well as your Master, and suspend belief if you can. Best of luck!

_____________________________

pink...
Master Andy's emotion...

From Each According To His Abilities, To Each According To His Needs.

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)

Post #: 8

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 7:08:21 AM

MistresseLotus

Posts: 443
Joined: 9/19/2008
From: (aka LotusSong)
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GabrielleSlave

Ok. This post is going to read a little like a journal entry i suspect. But bear with me, as i am trying to work through my thinking here and i need a little help from everyone with my perspective.

Fact - i am a straight, heterosexual female slave. Fact - i have never, in my past or in my present, ever been attracted sexually to any other female. i can appreciate the female form, have no problem with seeing a woman have sex with another woman, in fact it can be beautiful. But for me, it just is not one of my turn ons.

So here's the thing and i reckon it won't take a genius to work out what's coming... My Master wants me to pleasure another woman; to make her cum. In my head my immediate reaction is WOAH hard limit alert!! However, i am a rational person and so i try to reason myself into believing i can do what He wants. i have to admit to being one of those people who, knowing they are a slave, firmly believes in obedience, in following orders and that Sir will look after me. i am not a naive person, i do live in the real world, i know i have real choices and i have not been brainwashed into thinking i have none. i am frustrated with myself. i find myself arguing both sides. One side is 'don't cross a hard limit and He has no right to ask', the other side is 'you are a slave, this is what you signed up for, this is what you want, therefore do it'. The thought of doing what He wants is terrifying i admit; i am trying to work out if it is because of having no clue what to do, or whether there is something more i am not hearing yet. Fear often comes from a lack of information...maybe this is what it is? There is no secret in the fact that although i am female, i have no idea what to do to another female lol!

So, from all my ramblings here, i come to the conclusion that i need opinions, preferably informed ones. Has this been asked of you, or has your Dom asked this of you? If so, how did you manage? Has anyone got any advice? i don't mean advice about red flags ie dump Him and move on; Wwe have been together two years and are incredibly strong. Wwe talked alot last night and i know He is supporting me, but i need other perspectives here...

Thankyou for listening

gabrielle x

Having spoken to a slave friend of mine who was a recipient of "being pleasured" under order of the other fem slave's master.. she found it disappointing because it was being done to please the master and not her. She said the "head" was really bad! LOL And this was between a bi sexual female and the giver was bi-curious. I can't imagine how sad it would be if one isn't even curious.

I swear.. some guys have no clue about the psychology of sexuality when they make requests like this.
Guys! Attention!! Women aren't as willing to fuck "anything" like you are!!!! Did he go to Dom school on the little yellow bus???

I've said it before and I'll say it again.. "Don't compromise yourself.. you are all you've got." (Quote attributed to Janice Joplin)

< Message edited by MistresseLotus -- 3/4/2009 7:09:08 AM >

_____________________________

I leave it to the 20-somethings to do the "open-minded, total unconditional acceptance thing" for it's how THEY learn that all the things others older than they have deemed BS, are in fact BS. What a waste of a decade.

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)

Post #: 9

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 7:15:08 AM

MissIsis

Posts: 473
Joined: 1/1/2005
Status: offline

I hate to say it, but this is almost a universal measure of manhood & domliness among most men. There are though, plenty of men, who are perfectly fine without it. It is a little more difficult to find them.    Without getting into generalities I think
CatdeMedici put it into words better than I could. So men tend to see this whole issue differently than many of us women do.

There is the slave discussion you mentioned it. Technically, sexually slavery as some of us live it, is not really slavery, because it requires consent in most of the modern world. I guess you have to decide how far and to what extent your consent carries to.

The men that are able to pull off this fantasy of your dominant the best seem to be those that are able to convince their submissive that it doesn't matter what they do, or where they go in their fantasies, but they will always be loved, cared for, & held in an important place in said dominants life.   I really love how pink's dominant handled it for her. Not all dominants would be ok with that though. Their egos sometimes get in the way.   And it is funny, if you as, & were to get honest answers, you would probably find many women submissives who went along with this, & took it as far as they could, & ended up giving their dominant some very serious headaches because he didn't realize or wasn't equipped for all the drama that such a situation can bring up. One of the things that can happen when that happens, is the dominant will decide, ok, I care enough about my submissive that I don't want to lose her, so I will let her out of this one. I won't tell her she is off the hook, but I won't push her anymore about it. In the meantime, what she doesn't know won't hurt her, & if she does find out, I will just tell her, I realized she couldn't handle it. That way, it will look like she, my submissive is at fault for this failure & not mine. That doesn't always happen, but often it can, & does. At that point, the submissive feels betrayed, but since he was able to convince her the failure was hers, and not his, she will be questioning her own submission & not his dominance. It is subtle, but can cause some very psychological reprecussions in that she begins to question those gut reactions that many of us have been taught to squelch in the first place.

Of course, sometimes, it can work out well, but I think it takes an exceptional dominant to pull it off & it helps with a submissive who doesn't see sex as the most sacred part of a relationship.    Not everyone is capable of separating sex from love.

(in reply to pinkwind)

Post #: 10

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 7:16:41 AM

LunaVenus

Posts: 161
Joined: 1/4/2009
Status: offline

I had a relationship with a boyfriend who always wanted to involve another woman with us. I just refused. But I am not a sub. When we went out, he tried to entice me by pointing out women that he thought were hot. That just made me very happy to put him out immediately.

When he was gone, I felt no remorse. I was very happy to have my space and be done with him. I was so glad he was gone.

_____________________________

http://youtube.com/watch?v=1jAuT5blcko

(in reply to MistresseLotus)

Post #: 11

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 7:28:09 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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If I might contribute how I would look at this type of thing. It isn't the type of thing I would ask however. If I were to ask my slave to push a hard limit I would consider things like

Trust issues........in pushing her past a line, will she lose her trust in me?
Mental wellness......will having her do something have any potential for damage?
Why........why do I feel it is necessary? And is the potential risk worth the why?

I can only suggest to you that if the negatives outweigh the positive of your service. If you feel that your trust in him, your mental health, may be damaged MORE than the refusal will damage your relationship and you, then you need to consider the situation AND discuss it more with him.

I would want my slave to communicate all of the above with me, regardless of the task, sexual or otherwise.

< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 3/4/2009 7:29:06 AM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)

Post #: 12

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 7:36:00 AM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
Status: offline

What about having another woman pleasure you to orgasm? Could you do that, or is it a hard limit also?

If she did you first, maybe you would want to pleasure her in return.

Or does he want you to really do something that you actually don't want to do, just for him? What are his feelings and motivations?

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(in reply to GabrielleSlave)

Post #: 13

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 7:40:07 AM

GabrielleSlave

Posts: 616
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From: in servitude
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quote:

ORIGINAL: FullfigRIMAAM1
It is entirely possible that your dom has gotten to a comfort zone with you, that you have not yet arrived at yourself... It's also possible that this is a hard limit you never intended to have pushed. Assuming you did not enter the relationship with "all my hard limits are pliable/temporary" conversation, I'm not too keen on him pushing this very common fantasy on you.

To be fair i never considered this to be a hard limit in the beginning as i never envisaged me being asked this. It never even entered my head lol! In that sense therefore, it is a new hard limit, as it was one i couldn't have known i was to face. Also at the start of Oour relationship i was completely new to BDSM and so had no clear idea of what limits were let alone what mine may be. i suppose as time has gone on, i have become more experienced and know that the limits i may have perceived as being there in the first place no longer have any validity. Master took things very slowly with me from the get go and introduced new things gradually. He is a very caring, gentle man who is also a wonderfully dominant sadist and i love and respect Him enourmously. i concede that Wwe need to talk more, neither of Uus doubt that for one minute as all challenges i have been faced with have been talked through first...but i have always done as asked eventually. i want to add this however, i see this as my issue not His, something i have a problem with and not something He can wave a magic wand over and solve for me. If this is going to happen, it has to come from me.

_____________________________

Slave to Master Slayer

~ Host of the Rather Marvelous Greenwich Munch ~

"There is no such thing as liberty. You only change one sort of domination for another. All we can do is to choose our master."
D. H. Lawrence

(in reply to FullfigRIMAAM1)

Post #: 14

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 7:54:04 AM

FullfigRIMAAM1

Posts: 1160
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GabrielleSlave
To be fair i never considered this to be a hard limit in the beginning as i never envisaged me being asked this. It never even entered my head lol!

How cute that you never thought this would come up.

True it is not his issue since he is perfectly within his rights to ask/order what he wants of his slave. I would do the same... But, as LaT states above, he has to consider whether this will damage you alone or you both in the long run, given that you are significantly uncomfortable with it, and that you have in the past pushed past your discomforts/limitations in service... Maybe it's something you can do in time. I feel only 95% hetero as opposed to 99.999% when I started visiting and posting on collarme.

quote:

In that sense therefore, it is a new hard limit, as it was one i couldn't have known i was to face. Also at the start of Oour relationship i was completely new to BDSM and so had no clear idea of what limits were let alone what mine may be. i suppose as time has gone on, i have become more experienced and know that the limits i may have perceived as being there in the first place no longer have any validity. Master took things very slowly with me from the get go and introduced new things gradually. He is a very caring, gentle man who is also a wonderfully dominant sadist and i love and respect Him enourmously. i concede that Wwe need to talk more, neither of Uus doubt that for one minute as all challenges i have been faced with have been talked through first...

I apreciate that you love and trust him implicitly... Assuming he feels the same, he will give you time to either become comfortable with the idea, or drop it all together for the sake of the relationship.
Good luck, M

_____________________________

The place to improve the world is first in one's own heart and head and hands.-Robert M. Persig

Love is the only sane and satisfactory answer to the problem of human existence Erich Fromm

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)

Post #: 15

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 7:59:51 AM

cjan

Posts: 3513
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Imo, some limits that one has may be classified as soft limits in that , when negotiated and discussed, may be pushed and /or explored. On the other hand, hard limits are just that and should be respected by all parties involved, slave or not. Consider a hypothetical situation in which you were asked to engage in acts which I can't mention here because of TOS. It's just a matter of degree.

I disagree that this is your problem, rather than his. Slave or not, you are a human being who has a perfect right to have her hard limits respected.

_____________________________

"I never saw a wild thing sorry for itself. A bird will fall ,frozen , dead, from a bough without ever having felt sorry for itself."- D.H. L

" When you look into the abyss, the abyss also looks in to you"- Frank Nitti

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)

Post #: 16

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 8:08:31 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline

In my opinion, one person's problem is a problem for all involved in the relationship.

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to cjan)

Post #: 17

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 8:21:01 AM

starshineowned

Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline

Greetings..

Always a oldie but goodie issue. Common theme for males is that this is a self turn on sort of thing. What is definetely different is the fact that I am not a slave owned by just any male but one that has a completely different outlook on and for the girl at his feet. Surely you did not find yourself becoming slave to a man you felt ultimately met your ideals of having both your best interests to the forefront of anything he may direct along your path? Did somewhere along this path this mindset of yours about your Owner change to now where you feel the need to question his motivations? Something to think on.

I can only speak for myself but persuit of this path meant going into it with the understanding that "aside from Master outright lying about something along the way..which was his own vow to me" Anything is possible...hence the "no limits from me but his limits". Did and does he know what things mentally and morally right down to my core would and could possibly leave me in a state of un recognizeable goo in the corner? Yes..he does. Was and is this his goal for us/me? According to his words this is not and never would be the case. It is then left up to him to decide what can and can not be done, and is a tremendous responsibility on his part to Know me, to guage me, to discover me inside and out along the way to achieve his actual intents for us/me, and in result bringing me about to where he wants me to go for his purpose and better service to him while maintaining his own vow/s.

I can no longer trust myself to gauge such things that once I might have deamed as limits of any kind. Should I still be holding onto that as a guide when I wasn't owned..I'd never experience alot of things.

Like you..I have no interest in sexually being with another female. I have tried it in long years past, and the desire just never manifested, and as the years roled on..the morality of it factored in to "not" do it all the more strongly. I didn't check my brain in while begging to be owned by Master but I did check in my autonomy to decide things for myself from that point on, and by him being himself..that very same person that I trusted to begin with to make such a request to him is still there and even more unshakeable.

If ever a time comes when I state to myself that I am a slave because I am serving my own purpose or interests as I wish to..then it's time for me to go the other direction because I am no longer the slave as I understand it to be, and living a lie is not something I can live with. Exist yes..been there done that..but not live, and I wish to live.

starshine

< Message edited by starshineowned -- 3/4/2009 8:24:04 AM >

_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)

Post #: 18

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 8:22:31 AM

Sentry

Posts: 1
Joined: 10/22/2007
Status: offline

Gab, I think the very fact that you are questioning it and arguing both sides of the issue implies that perhaps this in fact is not a hard limit for you. Several of the other folks here have had some great advice especially pinkwind.

Pleasuring another woman and making her cum perhaps should be a far flung, pie in the shy type of goal for your Dom for now. How about starting off slow and maybe training you in flirting, kissing, stroking and the like and see how things go. If your comfortable...continue, if not he needs to understand that ultimatly you have the choice to put the breaks on and stop things in their tracks.

Yes you might disappoint him temporarily, but if he loves you and cares for you he'll get over it quickly for in reality he has disappointed himself. ( he'll understand that statement if and when the time comes )

(in reply to FullfigRIMAAM1)

Post #: 19

RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/4/2009 8:23:36 AM

littleone35

Posts: 2828
Joined: 2/17/2005
Status: offline

I trust my Master totally. Like you op either one of us being with another woman is a hard limit. You never said why it is a hard limit. My hard limits are set in stone and Master knows that even i am crazy about him and have been together 3 years if he broke one he would lose me. I am not sayin you should leave him though. If you are like me this would damage me mentally you should tell you Master even though you want to please him and obey this is something you cannot bring yourself to do. If he is trying to force you to do that you could ask him why this such a big deal for him.

Matt's littleone

(in reply to FullfigRIMAAM1)

Post #: 20

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