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RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/8/2009 1:59:48 PM   
babygurlrides


Posts: 90
Joined: 8/13/2008
Status: offline 		In case you DO decide to go ahead, I will relate my experience with it. I have never been with a woman, although, like you, I have no problems watching women with women, and have actually found some material to be quite erotic and beautiful.
At the request of Daddy, I had the opportunity to experiment with oral sex on a woman I knew who is bisexual. I grappled with it for a while but decided that I needed to go ahead with it. It just seemed to me that Daddy is always pushing me to test my own limits, and when I weighted the pros and cons, I felt this would not be something that would harm me to the core.  So... I approached it as a challenge, ... almost like a scientific experiment. As a result, I have NO doubt that I prefer men:)   I did not dislike the experience. There was no odor (something that worried me), and it felt soft and sensual. As far as technique, I figured I would just do to her what I like to have done to me. I was amazed that it seemed to have come quite naturally. And.. she did enjoy it.
In terms of hard limits... I had not thought about stating that as a hard limit for myself, probably because it never occured to me to do so. I was more concerned with sharing Daddy, or play with animals and children. I felt that everything else could be negotiated as we went along.
I think that the only thing I really needed to resolve in my own mind, were the religious implications for me. Believe it or not, I feel kinda good knowing that I was able to do something like that, not fall apart, and get on with the business of living:)
Hope this helped.

_____________________________

I'd call you a cunt, but you lack both the depth and the warmth!
(my favorite t-shirt slogan)

(in reply to WyldHrt)
Profile   Post #: 81
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/10/2009 10:10:46 PM   
mdmullis


Posts: 1
Joined: 2/25/2009
Status: offline 		Love, if you are a slave, then you are a slave. Did you all not discuss hard limits before you began this M/s relationship? If so, than what was said about this issue? Stick to whatevver was said in the beginning of the relationship about hard limits, if you did not set this as a hard limit, then let it be a soft one and let him push it. Ask him to ease you into it, first a kiss, next time a touch, and so on and so on till you are comfortable doing what has been asked of you as a slave. You will feel much more accomplished doing it this way than not doing it at all. And you will feel better knowing that you have pushed beyond the bounds of your mind and into total abandon...with luv, Maggi

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)
Profile   Post #: 82
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/11/2009 3:36:07 AM   
goddess97440


Posts: 33
Joined: 6/30/2004
Status: offline 		This thread has been interesting to me. As a lesbian domme, I demand heteroflexibility in male subs. It's one of my earliest negotiating points for 24/7 service. In part, I feel that it is a fun way to combat homophobia. I do not have same requirement for lesbian slaves -in part because we live in a culture that makes it difficult for a woman to sexually reject men (as a collective, cruelty to individuals seems culturally endorse across gender lines). I want to support and validate my lovers' hard-won sexual identity. Both as a lesbian and as a slave. I am equally alert to body disphoria in Trans subs and limitations they may have.

Retriggering possible past sexual abuses? Not sexy. But that's a cross gender risk also. Chances are if someone's been raped (child or adult) their abuser was male. If a sub knows something you are asking for may awaken old trauma, that's a good reason to say no. Or at least, approach with EXTREME caution.

I do however find the idea of her doing something that was FOR ME ALONE intoxicating. I'm grateful to the men in my life who've made it possible to realize that ideal. There is also the "re-virgin" aspect. Something you can only give once. The first time you ever did ___?  I celebrate those opportunities whenever I find them. (Without dancing over hard limits in steel toed boots)

As with any scene, it requires Before Prep (negotiation, investigation, planning, etc) and Aftercare (yes psychological).

Fascinating as this thread has been it didn't address part of her question. WHY? Why is this a hard limit? (In fact most conversation seems to be feretting out, IS it a hard limit?) So I will put that much explored bit aside and answer the question: why am I afraid of this? why am I reluctant?

Sit down with your lover/master and discuss this. What are you afraid of? Smell, taste? I recommend hot tub sex (not only can the receiver of oral pleasure sit on the edge of the tub while you soak/float luxuriously... in the hot tub everyone tastes like chlorine. There are also dental dams, saran wrap and a hundred disgusting flavored lotions. Afraid of being unskilled? Disappointing? Afraid of having to meet her later, social complications? Afraid you're not sexy to him cuz your not bi? Afraid he'll want her? It will change your relationship?

If you understand what you fear, and help your master to understand it, you can prepare. Figure out what you need to make an uncomfortable situation more erotic for you both. Or gain enough insight to decline.

PS If you decide to "take the plunge", read this text to your master. Note to master: a good way to warm her up- Weeks (or months) before whatever unsavory sex act, masturbate her to orgasm while you describe her doing it. This is effective for first of all kind (anal sex, etc). Talk it through slowly. Tell her every detail "You look so sexy as you unbutton her shirt. I am so turned on and so proud of you." This will both demystify the experience. Let her know what to expect and give her an erotic charge (remembering shared masturbation) to focus on. Orgasms are very relaxing. Consider having one together before the third party arrives. (Or while she waits in the next room.)

(in reply to mdmullis)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/11/2009 6:54:46 AM   
Drifa


Posts: 547
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Rural Texas
Status: offline 		Sexuality is an interesting thing. It's really rare to find anyone who is "100% heterosexual" or "100% homosexual" as measured by the venerable Kinsey Scale. But that doesn't mean you can't find an occasional person eligible for a Kinsey 0 or a Kinsey 6 T-Shirt.  The other important thing Kinsey figured out was that people changed where they were on the scale at different times in their lives. So how hetero or homo you are is not set in stone.  I'm a Kinsey 3, and I am in a permanent D/s relationship with another woman, my very dominant Lady, so that is the background that colors my view of the issue.

Here's what I'd suggest you think about carefully in deciding if this is a hard limit for you. Understanding *exactly* why it bothers you will be really important in negotiating where this limit is with your dominant and whether it's a hard limit or more malleable.

(1) What is it about sex with another woman that is bothering you?
  • The "gross out" factor -- That may be your knee-jerk reaction to your acculturation in Western society. Do your own girl bits gross you out? In general, I recommend that you try a sensual deep french kiss with another woman to test this out... a serious kiss is about a zillion times more intimate than cunnilingus (at least to me). How does that kiss make you feel? If a deep kiss doesn't bother you, think about why cunnilingus might be tripping the alarms in your head.
  • Societal expectations --TV, jokes, schoolyard taunts, everything in our culture teaches us from a very early age that homosexuality is A Bad Thing and that people who are "That Way" are despised. Even growing up in a house with two gay parents, when I first started dating girls I was horrified to find that I had a lot of internalized homophobia and had to overcome that part of me that was trying to tell me that I was a bad person.
  • Inadequacy issues -- Some people find being asked to add another person to the scene makes them feel that their master considers them inadequate or "not enough". Good negotiations with your dominant are key if this is an issue.
  • Jealousy issues -- Deep down, do you fear that your dominant may find HER more attractive/desirable/better? Again, talking about it is really important.
(2) You mentioned that having another woman present where you were both pleasuring your dominant didn't bother you.  Consider other combos -- how would you feel if he asked you to pleasure another man while he watched?

(3) I personally would be much happier scrubbing toilets than having someone going down on me that didn't want to be there doing that with enjoyment and (hopefully) skill. Unless your dominant is getting pleasure out of watching potential discomfort from both girls involved in such a scenario, I'd agree with the posters that suggested "baby steps" in easing into this activity. Can you deep kiss a woman and not run screaming from the room? Can you lick her nipples the way you'd like someone to do yours? And so on.

(4) Ultimately, your hard limits are exactly that. They are YOURS. No one else gets to set your hard limits. 

HARD means you are not amenable to discussion or pushing on the issue. At rare intervals you should bring out your list of limits and have a meaningful discussion of whether they still apply, or should be modified. But you should not have your dominant picking at your hard limits on a frequent basis trying to erode them. A dominant who does niggle at your hard limits constantly is telling you that you can't trust them to respect your limits, and that the dominant doesn't respect your clearly stated choices, which doesn't do good things for your dynamic.

LIMITS means it's a no-go zone. A dominant who is unwilling to respect your hard limits is not someone I'd want to be with. For me a test of "is it a hard limit?" is saying "If my dominant insists on this, will I dump her ass?" If the answer is yes, then it's a hard limit, period.



(in reply to Ph0enixF1re)
Profile   Post #: 84
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/11/2009 10:33:59 AM   
trainedobedients


Posts: 56
Joined: 1/30/2006
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		Hi Gabrielle,

I am bisexual so cannot completely relate to your question, however I have been asked to do things in our relationship that went beyond my own boundaries/wishes. I always try anything at least twice before dismissing it but when I do dismiss it I keep my ground.

Master has accepted that and I find that by being more exploritive you can find whole worlds to enjoy you never knew you would before trying it.

I wish you luck,
angel


_____________________________

Play safe and sound,
trainedobedients
slave of Master JohnnyV

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)
Profile   Post #: 85
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/11/2009 7:58:22 PM   
DomM&SubK


Posts: 64
Joined: 11/21/2008
Status: offline 		Yes my sir has had me get other ladies off. I my self am straight and really do not find my friends as someone I want to have sex with. So first question are you allowed to use a toy to get said lady off? Because if that is the case than it’s a piece of cake after you two get to talking and such but yeah use toys that’s what I did and I really got in to it and even made her gush. Now if it is oral or fingers yeah HARD LIMIT and I WONT DO IT

_____________________________

~Master M's Lady and Princess~ ~I am still finding my voice so forgive me if i put my foot in my mouth at times~ ~I Love My Big Daddy~

(in reply to GabrielleSlave)
Profile   Post #: 86
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/12/2009 9:36:23 PM   
devotedinSD


Posts: 91
Joined: 11/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterFireMaam

In my opinion, you need to look into what makes this a hard limit for you, not just into the fact that you are resisting the pushing. Why do you not want to engage with a woman? Is it that you're not attracted or is it because you think it's wrong in some way? Once you can figure out that, you can work to either correct or let go or it.

Master Fire



Uhm, NO. I don't know why it is assumed any hard limit can be rationalized away. Everyone has hard limits and if they could be rationalized away they would be soft limits.


_____________________________

Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must.

Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

(in reply to MasterFireMaam)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/12/2009 9:41:42 PM   
RainydayNE


Posts: 978
Joined: 10/21/2008
Status: offline 		to be fair, someone else did raise the point that the OP does ask "why" with the intent of discovering the reasons behind it. she wants to know WHY it's a hard limit, which is good.
but someone else also pointed out that nobody suggests that people try to rationalize other hard limits, like scat or something like that.

i also don't think people would be so quick to say that it can be rationalized away if the poster was male and wondering why he didn't want to be involved with another male.
there is an idea that women have an easier time "overcoming straightness," and i don't think it's true.
i think that's the reason why this is not going to be solved with rational thought and logic. sexual orientation and preference is just "one of those things."

being a slave makes this sort of stuff interesting, since some people believe a slave should have no limits and do what Master says regardless, and others think that she has an obligation to protect Master's property and discuss this.

lots of good points all around.

(in reply to devotedinSD)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 3/13/2009 12:08:08 AM   
inkdrips


Posts: 24
Joined: 3/12/2009
Status: offline 		I think (and bear in mind I'm a total noob) that boundaries should be set at the outset and no amount of powerplay should be used to try and leverage any change in values.

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
Profile   Post #: 89
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 4/9/2009 11:03:10 AM   
kareeza


Posts: 5
Joined: 3/29/2009
Status: offline 		you have been with this "gentle" man for a while and you had established this as a HARD limit in the beginning...there for it is a HARD limit to be respected...
if your limit were says no cutting with knives...which is about you and not sexual pleasuring would you feel different knowing he wanted that type of thing to be "turned on" or as part of is dominance..??? would you question

this reeks of  selfishness on his part...

you need to TALK TO HIM...you have rights

(in reply to littleone35)
Profile   Post #: 90
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 4/9/2009 2:25:06 PM   
greeneyedreamer


Posts: 442
Joined: 6/20/2007
Status: offline 		Afraid it's not an issue with me. I know it is with you. I am sure you have thought out why. Examine your reasoning. What about it repulses you? What makes you feel icky? Then you can know what it is that makes you want this to be a hard limit.



_____________________________

Dreamer, owned and ecstatically happy

I am still learning... Michelangelo, age 87

Maybe some women weren't meant to be tamed. Maybe they are suppose to run wild until they find someone just as wild to run with. Sex and the City

(in reply to littleone35)
Profile   Post #: 91
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 4/9/2009 4:52:16 PM   
InTonguesslave


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline 		i want to say this, not sure where its going but here it is..., we are more than the sum of our limits.  what felt pertinant to put as a limt two years ago maybe isnt so much now.  youve been with youre M this time and grown to trust and respect him and over this time you have become hard wired to please him. 

only you can answer the question of why its a limit to you.  clearly you can come up with every logical reason why it should be possible to do this and not get too squicked out by it.

personally speaking i am not bi atall and niether is my poly sis, but Sir wishes for us to be intimate as part of our triad and it seems logical to me.  niether she or i placed it as a limit because we knew it was something he would want.

youre problem is that you stated it as a limit from the off and now its very much on the agenda.  thats why the comment 'we are more than the sum of our limits' popped into my head. 

a hard limit is non-negotiable up until this moment - the one youre in now - renegotiation, reconsidering, seeking other opinions.  already you are testing that hard limit to see how it sounds and resonates with you.

_____________________________

aka lally


(in reply to greeneyedreamer)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 4/10/2009 6:36:23 AM   
VeryNastyDom


Posts: 403
Joined: 9/23/2006
Status: offline 		Why is any specific act a limit for sub X but not for sub Y?  Just because X and Y are two entirely different people who have brains that are wired totally differently, difference life experiences, and different preferences. 

If this is not something you can bring yourself to do, regardless of the circumstances, then accept that and move along.  Master should do the same.

(in reply to littleone35)
Profile   Post #: 93
RE: Why is this a hard limit? - 4/11/2009 9:55:08 AM   
Dastan


Posts: 148
Joined: 12/13/2008
From: Barranquilla city, Colombia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

Many men take sex as an act, a task, a function much like tying shoes or farting--they also have this fantasy of a menages, women on women, women on them, them on women--it denotes a good fuck had by all and we all go home to life--not so for many women.
 
Women see"intimacy" (note I did not say sex) as a private thing, with a relationship as the foundation--it denotes caring, emotion, something to be revered.
 
Most women, if not wired to be bi, can't wrap their heads around a "sex---task"--its not like men, drop your drawers and just go to it--much like men on men who aren't oriented to men on men.( poly is a whole different ballgame as its relationship oriented, IMHO)
 
If you weren't bi oriented to begin with--this won't work and IMHO could do some psychological/emotional damage in the long run.  Look deep into YOUR wiring and if its not right, tell Him, if you lose Him, well did He really respect your hard limits?
 
 


Umm..is it bad if I have only had them a very few times in my entire life? I mean. I read and I do see that many men of your culture do fantasize about women-on-women, and threesomes and such but...well, I guess I am wired wrongly and maybe it's why I am here alone....

And as for Miss Gabrielle, the original poster: If someone makes you cross a line you don't want to cross, that person is better off on the other side of a line dividing you.

If my Mistress ever told me to please another man, maybe I'd explain to her it's not me, and if things become a matter of "it's that or me" I'd have to simply refuse, even if I lost her. I cannot change that part of me, not because I can't love her enough but because it's an integral part of me and if she loved me, she wouldn't ask me to change it, and to do so out of her own pleasure and not my convenience.



_____________________________

Power without Purpose is the same as an Artist without a Brush

(in reply to CatdeMedici)
Profile   Post #: 94
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