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RE: Afghanistan - 3/8/2009 7:11:34 PM

UPSG

Posts: 331
Joined: 1/22/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

Iran is not going to nuclear bomb Israel.

If I was Israel I might doubt your prescience. ( Aside: What's truly horrifying about some of this debate is the large group of people who think GWB is a religious zealot desirous of bring about Armageddon while simultaneously thinking that Ahmedinejad clearly is not). All I can tell you is that if my neighbor states publicly and repeatedly that he is going to build a tank to kill my family, I'm going to the sheriff. If he ignores the warnings from said LEO and starts buying parts I'm going to repeat my concerns to the sheriff. When my neighbor starts assembling the parts the hell with the sheriff. I'm paying my neighbor a little unannounced visit, and I'm taking the shotgun and homemade napalm and plenty of ammo.

Well, I for one don't think George W. Bush is a religious zealot. Far from it. I don't share his same religion, or that is to say same view on Christianity, but I would not regard him as a zealot.

Bush clearly was leading a secular ideological cause in invading Iraq - namely democracy. But this is nothing new, people of the United States shed enormous blood in Southeast Asia to spread the gospel of democracy and capitalism. Humans kill and war for all sorts of reasons.

quote:

As far as Israel: True or false: If Israel was never again attacked it would never send another soldier past its borders.

Israel will refrain from sending soldiers past it's boarders today because Israel has come to a point where it depends on the U.S. and or the U.K. to sustain its security. Israel can not get bogged down in a war of attrition in the Middle East today because it could not financially afford to do so - it would need the U.S. to finance a major portion of such a war.

Other than that Israel would likely look to expand its boarders like the ancient Romans you admire, and like the United States taking half of Mexico and planting its flag on Hawaii. As far as the United States is concerned Israel is an area we can use as a center of gravity in the Middle East, so, I would suspect the U.S. and Israel conduct joint covert operations out of Israel.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 81

RE: Afghanistan - 3/8/2009 8:54:17 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

if we were to take 21st century liberals and press back to the 1940's we would have lost WW II.

State opinion like fact much?????
~H.G. Wells

It's funny how 20th century liberals won WWII. I didn't notice any big change in myself or any other liberals on 1/1/2001 so...

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 82

RE: Afghanistan - 3/8/2009 9:05:48 PM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

quote:

It's funny how 20th century liberals won WWII. I didn't notice any big change in myself or any other liberals on 1/1/2001 so...

They also got us into Vietnam, and we didn't get anything out of it. They also almost started WWIII over Cuba. With the exception of the Gulf War, every war in the 20th Century was started by Democrats. When you see photos, video, and hear stories about cops turning dogs loose on blacks, governors standing in front of schools to bar black students......guess what party those cops and governors were in?

I almost forgot.....care to guess which party the only former Klansman in Congress belongs to?

< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 3/8/2009 9:09:53 PM >

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 83

RE: Afghanistan - 3/8/2009 9:49:25 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

It's funny how 20th century liberals won WWII. I didn't notice any big change in myself or any other liberals on 1/1/2001 so...

They also got us into Vietnam, and we didn't get anything out of it. They also almost started WWIII over Cuba. With the exception of the Gulf War, every war in the 20th Century was started by Democrats. When you see photos, video, and hear stories about cops turning dogs loose on blacks, governors standing in front of schools to bar black students......guess what party those cops and governors were in?

I almost forgot.....care to guess which party the only former Klansman in Congress belongs to?

Nice attempt at switching subjects. I said liberal not Democrat.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 84

RE: Afghanistan - 3/8/2009 10:39:48 PM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

Are you suggesting that LBJ, the man who was going to bring us The Great Society, wasn't a liberal, Ken? Wallace, I'll give you.

Got any suggestions for good liberal goals and strategies in Afghanistan?

< Message edited by TheHeretic -- 3/8/2009 10:41:27 PM >

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 85

RE: Afghanistan - 3/8/2009 10:57:57 PM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Are you suggesting that LBJ, the man who was going to bring us The Great Society, wasn't a liberal, Ken? Wallace, I'll give you.

Got any suggestions for good liberal goals and strategies in Afghanistan?

I'm suggesting that he tried to claim all Democrats are liberals so as to hang Wallace, the Selma sherrif and Senator Byrd around liberals necks which is of course untrue.

As to good liberal goals in Afghanistan, find OBL and end him, strengthen the central government and find some hard money crop to replace poppies.

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 86

RE: Afghanistan - 3/8/2009 11:04:33 PM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

Robert "Grand Cyclops" Byrd isn't a liberal? Ken, c'mon man....the guy has been described as the historian of the Democratic Party. I don't know if you've ever been through West Virginia; half of it is named after this asshole.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 87

RE: Afghanistan - 3/8/2009 11:51:31 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

How many secret operations against AL Queda has the press printed the past 7 years??? Do you think they would have printed such stuff in the 1940's against Nazi Germany or Japan??? How about stories about where we are the most vulnerable to attack ;) Oh and do you think we would have been fighting against NAZI Germany? Or would it just be Japan ;) Japan was the one that attacked us on dec 7 not Germany. Germany played no part in the attack.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

if we were to take 21st century liberals and press back to the 1940's we would have lost WW II.

State opinion like fact much?????
~H.G. Wells

< Message edited by MasterShake69 -- 3/8/2009 11:56:38 PM >

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 88

RE: Afghanistan - 3/8/2009 11:54:31 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

Roosevelt would have no problem with GITMO, wiretaps and secret CIA prisons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

if we were to take 21st century liberals and press back to the 1940's we would have lost WW II.

State opinion like fact much?????
~H.G. Wells

It's funny how 20th century liberals won WWII. I didn't notice any big change in myself or any other liberals on 1/1/2001 so...

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 89

RE: Afghanistan - 3/9/2009 12:26:49 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Robert "Grand Cyclops" Byrd isn't a liberal? Ken, c'mon man....the guy has been described as the historian of the Democratic Party. I don't know if you've ever been through West Virginia; half of it is named after this asshole.

Byrd is not a liberal.

Byrd supported various attempts to undermine the right to privacy. He supported the appointments of both Roberts and Alito. He opposes gays serving in the military. He opposes affirmative action. He supports capital punishment. He supports anti flag burning laws.

He may not be far enough right to be welcome in the GOP but he is definitely not a liberal.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 90

RE: Afghanistan - 3/9/2009 12:33:22 AM

slaveboyforyou

Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline

quote:

Byrd supported various attempts to undermine the right to privacy. He supported the appointments of both Roberts and Alito. He opposes gays serving in the military. He opposes affirmative action. He supports capital punishment. He supports anti flag burning laws.

Obama is against gay marriage.
Obama is for the death penalty.

I guess he's not a liberal either. Bill Clinton and his wife are both death penalty proponents, and they both oppose gay marriage. I reckon they aren't liberals either.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 91

RE: Afghanistan - 3/9/2009 12:34:11 AM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

hes a southern liberal

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 92

RE: Afghanistan - 3/9/2009 7:02:10 AM

TheHeretic

Posts: 19100
Joined: 3/25/2007
From: California, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

I'm suggesting that he tried to claim all Democrats are liberals so as to hang Wallace, the Selma sherrif and Senator Byrd around liberals necks which is of course untrue.

As to good liberal goals in Afghanistan, find OBL and end him, strengthen the central government and find some hard money crop to replace poppies.

Gee. Sorta like the religious right gets hung around the necks of those who don't think gov't intervention is the answer to all of societies ills?

Right there with you on Bin Laden, and my thought would be let them grow all the poppies they want for a legalized trade (we could have burned those fields in '01). As for strengthening the central government of Afghanistan, wasn't that the Soviet mission when they invaded? A mission they failed miserably at despite sharing a border, instead of a 10,000 (ish) mile long supply line?

_____________________________

If you lose one sense, your other senses are enhanced.
That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.

(in reply to DomKen)

Post #: 93

RE: Afghanistan - 3/9/2009 7:05:14 AM

SilverMark

Posts: 3457
Joined: 5/9/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

Are you suggesting that LBJ, the man who was going to bring us The Great Society, wasn't a liberal, Ken? Wallace, I'll give you.

Got any suggestions for good liberal goals and strategies in Afghanistan?

.....Yes....get us the fuck out!....and soon....

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

(in reply to TheHeretic)

Post #: 94

RE: Afghanistan - 3/9/2009 7:59:12 AM

CraZYWiLLiE

Posts: 161
Joined: 1/24/2008
From: HD NM
Status: offline

70's Russia invades afghanistan and is there for 12 years, they lost many men, we taught the Aghan freedom fighters how to defeat them with their weapons.
Today we are there....Same place different time.

Lets bring home our Military from Korea and Germany over 200, 000 troops

(in reply to popeye1250)

Post #: 95

RE: Afghanistan - 3/9/2009 9:08:30 AM

DomKen

Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Byrd supported various attempts to undermine the right to privacy. He supported the appointments of both Roberts and Alito. He opposes gays serving in the military. He opposes affirmative action. He supports capital punishment. He supports anti flag burning laws.

Obama is against gay marriage.
Obama is for the death penalty.

I guess he's not a liberal either. Bill Clinton and his wife are both death penalty proponents, and they both oppose gay marriage. I reckon they aren't liberals either.

Being against two things doesn't mean you aren't a liberal but being against a whole list of liberal beliefs does make someone not a liberal.

(in reply to slaveboyforyou)

Post #: 96

RE: Afghanistan - 3/9/2009 2:45:06 PM

lronitulstahp

Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

Roosevelt would have no problem with GITMO, wiretaps and secret CIA prisons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

if we were to take 21st century liberals and press back to the 1940's we would have lost WW II.

State opinion like fact much?????
~H.G. Wells

It's funny how 20th century liberals won WWII. I didn't notice any big change in myself or any other liberals on 1/1/2001 so...

once again...state OPINIONS like fact, much????

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to MasterShake69)

Post #: 97

RE: Afghanistan - 3/9/2009 3:06:55 PM

Vendaval

Posts: 10297
Joined: 1/15/2005
Status: offline

Maybe he thinks he can channel Roosevelt?

_____________________________

"Beware, the woods at night, beware the lunar light.
So in this gray haze we'll be meating again, and on that
great day, I will tease you all the same."
"WOLF MOON", OCTOBER RUST, TYPE O NEGATIVE

http://KinkMeet.co.uk

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 98

RE: Afghanistan - 3/9/2009 5:46:52 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

here is a simple fact. The mujahedin is not the Taliban
..
The northern alliance was the mujahedin.

Take a look at the average age of someone in the Taliban.....many werent even alive when the soviets first invaded.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CraZYWiLLiE

70's Russia invades afghanistan and is there for 12 years, they lost many men, we taught the Aghan freedom fighters how to defeat them with their weapons.
Today we are there....Same place different time.

Lets bring home our Military from Korea and Germany over 200, 000 troops

(in reply to CraZYWiLLiE)

Post #: 99

RE: Afghanistan - 3/9/2009 5:54:29 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

lets see someone that had no problem with japanese internment camps. You would think would have a problem with GITMO ;)

You may have heard of a man named J. Edgar Hoover???? If you know anything about history then you know what he was willing and able to do ;)

http://www.foitimes.com/internment/Books.htm

No charges are made; no legal counsel is allowed. Newspapers fill with stories of espionage and enemies. Current events? No. During World War II, the United States used tactics remarkably similar to those in use today against presumed terrorists. By 1939, President Franklin Roosevelt had covertly authorized J. Edgar Hoover’s Secret Intelligence Service to begin surveillance of Axis nationals in Latin America. Believing that “all German nationals without exception [are] dangerous,” the United States surreptitiously pressured Latin-American countries to arrest and deport more than four thousand civilians of German ethnicity to the United States. There, many languished in internment camps, while others were shipped to war-torn Germany.

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

Roosevelt would have no problem with GITMO, wiretaps and secret CIA prisons.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

if we were to take 21st century liberals and press back to the 1940's we would have lost WW II.

State opinion like fact much?????
~H.G. Wells

It's funny how 20th century liberals won WWII. I didn't notice any big change in myself or any other liberals on 1/1/2001 so...

once again...state OPINIONS like fact, much????

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 100

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