RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (Full Version)

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Ialdabaoth -> RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (5/15/2009 1:19:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero
People are prone to gripe about how having a D-type dictate the image he wants (or is helping the sub to attain) may be suspect, but since many women already have problems with trying to meet some universal concept of body-type from societal pressure, all it really becomes is substituting another source...and one (in the D-type) which is presumably more caring and personally supportive.



More importantly, regardless of whether s/he's more caring and personally supportive, s/he will be more consistent. Trying to please the mob fails to please anyone. Anyone over 105 lbs is too fat, and anyone under 130 lbs has sharp knees. No matter WHAT you look like, someone is bound to find you attractive, and that's a good thing. And no matter WHAT you look like, someone is going to try to make you feel awful, and that's an expected part of human nature. Of course, there's a bell curve, and certain body types are more likely to be found attractive by a larger number of people than others, but there's an issue of diminishing returns - eventually, you spend so much time worrying about whether you're "pretty enough" and working on your appearance that you can't enjoy the benefits that being able to manipulate people with your good looks grant you.

On the other hand, you can hit it off with someone in every way but physical, and just not be that attracted to them in a sexual sense. There's several people that I just couldn't be attracted to, and couldn't do anything with them that would MAKE them attractive to me, no matter how much I love their minds. Accommodations can be made to some extent, but past a certain line I know better than to go through the motions of a relationship with someone I'm not attracted to. (Of course, the fact that the things I'm attracted to are in pretty high demand, coupled with the fact that I'm not much of a looker myself, create a lot of frustrating situations and admonishments to "get over myself and stop trying to date out of my league", but that's one of the wonderful paradoxes of looksism).

Now, on the actual subject of weight loss, there are a few things to be said:

1. Certain people have wide ribcages, wide hipbones, and a naturally more 'robust' frame. You can make these people emaciated, but you CANNOT make them thin. Trying to achieve a physique that your body simply cannot support is a sure-fire recipe for anorexia nervosa.

2. There's this idea that creeps into people's minds, that "more is better". I.e.: you're 135 lbs and people think you're kinda cute, but you feel a little chubby. So you drop to 115, and people think you're incredibly sexy. The human mind is wonderful at turning correlation into causation, so something anchors into your subconscious that "losing weight = more people find me sexy". And suddenly, that perverse little imp starts whispering to you, "imagine how you'd look at 105." So you make 105, and some people express concern, but others find it sexy, and more importantly, you feel better - so now you shoot for 100. Then 95. Then 90. Then 85. When, in fact, your ideal weight was actually 120. The point here is, never confuse the means for the ends. Becoming thinner isn't what makes you hotter; having the right BMI for your build and temperment does. Forgetting this is another sure-fire recipe for anorexia nervosa.

3. Keeping 1 and 2 in mind, always, always always make as accurate an appraisal as you can of who you are and what your body, mind and spirit are capable of. And look into all your options, but with an actual, achievable goal in mind. And if you know you're obsessing over something that just isn't physically possible to achieve for yourself (due to bone structure, height, or legitimate physical disability), you have my sympathy and my understanding, and my heartfelt recommendation to try to resolve the issue psychologically until technology catches up with our desires and we can finally have our perfect cyborg bodies. And never let people who aren't intimately connected to your well-being tell you what you should do with your body.

4. All that being said, certain people (myself included) find the wire-thin look attractive. It's somewhat popular these days to call people who deliberately want to be thinner than "normal" 'anorexic' - and hey, if the shoe fits. Just remember that there's a difference between anorexia nervosa and anorectic praxis, and for God's sake watch your nutrition. Organ failure is rarely sexy.

To be honest, I've had my best results with people without even restricting their diet that much - and attempting to restrict their diet actually did worse than giving them a more upbeat attitude and a more physical lifestyle. I walk fast, and typically trek about 4-5 miles per day on foot (10-15 on the weekends; I live next to a party campus and like to explore the nightlife). The best exercise program I've ever put a sub through was a simple, short little sentence:

"Try to keep up."

Eventually, we had her up to jogging in ballet boots for half a mile a weekend. But I think the biggest contributor to the success was that I wasn't actually that concerned with getting her weight off - I was more concerned with just walking, and exploring the neighborhoods, and having fun. A good philosophical conversation along a 2-mile bike path does wonders for taking your mind off the physical concerns of tired muscles and sore feet.


... and that's enough of my ramblings for today. :)





LadyConstanze -> RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (5/15/2009 1:54:33 PM)

Well Angel, maybe you should do research then? Just because you haven't heard it doesn't mean that it isn't true.

And yes, any physician will tell you that it much more dangerous to yoyo with your weight as it does put a bigger strain on the body, and you actually don't need to be a brain surgeon to figure it out.

Since you seem to be incapable of checking the facts, try this

http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=yoyo+weight&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Since I obviously don't know what I'm talking about, I looked into nutrition issues heavily since I am suffering from hypothyroidism and at one point in my life was overweight.

I'm 5'5 and my weight fluctuates between 110 and 120lbs, I kept the same weight since my late teens, I don't calorie count but I eat healthy and exercise, so obviously I must be doing something right.

Your turn, how tall are you and what do you weight? Since obviously you know all about nutrition and dieting...




barelynangel -> RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (5/15/2009 9:39:12 PM)

bursts out laughing -- you are joking right? YOU are not seriously impying that being a normal weight gives you credibilty and now you want some type of competition? Sorry, i gave up comparing myself to other women when i was in my 20's. Your need to make it personal is kinda silly -you made statements i disagree with -- your belief your weight somehow is credibility to me -- is well wrong. You are welcome to provide ACTUAL sources because i know of no research advocating staying fat over losing even if you MAY gain back eventually. Psst, see below with regard to the links in all your smartassedness you provided.

However, what i said was true -- i have NEVER heard of ANY medical professional tell an overweight person that it is better to STAY overweight because you MAY regain. What i do hear MANY professionals from drs. to trainers to weight counselors state even losing a little will help peopl.

Here are some links you may be interested in ---

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/topics/obesity/calltoaction/fact_consequences.htm
Especially THIS PART: Weight loss, as modest as 5 to 15% of total body weight in a person who is overweight or obese, reduces the risk factors for some diseases, particularly heart disease.
Weight loss can result in lower blood pressure, lower blood sugar, and improved cholesterol levels.
A person with a Body Mass Index (BMI) above the healthy weight range* may benefit from weight loss, especially if he or she has other health risk factors, such as high blood pressure, high cholesterol, smoking, diabetes, a sedentary lifestyle, and a personal and/or family history of heart disease.

Yeah but its only the surgeon general what do they know.

Another is this:

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/public/heart/obesity/lose_wt/risk.htm

If you read through same -- you will see this: If we suggest an initial weight goal that seems too heavy for you, please understand that our major emphasis is on your health and that your health can be greatly improved by a loss of 5-10 percent of your starting weight. That doesn't mean you have to stop there, but it does mean that an initial goal of losing 5-10 percent of your starting weight is both realistic and valuable.

Funny neither of these these say -- HEY if you think you will regain in the future DON'T lose weight now because god forbid you start yo-yoing.

BUT HERE'S MY FAORITE ONE -- THE LINKS IN THE SEARCH YOU PROVIDED:

grins and to quote one of the links you provided: http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=21745
Is staying overweight healthier than weight cycling?

It is not known for certain whether weight cycling causes health problems. The diseases associated with being obese, however, are well known. These include:

•High blood pressure
•Heart disease
•Stroke
•Type 2 diabetes
•Certain types of cancer
•Arthritis
•Gallbladder disease.
Not every adult who is overweight or obese has the same risk for disease. Whether you are a man or woman, the amount and location of your fat, and your family history of disease all play a role in determining your disease risk. Experts agree, however, that even a modest weight loss of 10 percent of body weight over a period of six months or more can improve the health of an adult who is overweight or obese.

It even goes on to say this:
Conclusions

Further research on the effects of weight cycling is needed. In the meantime, if you are obese or are overweight and suffer from weight-related health problems, try to improve your health by achieving a modest weight loss. Although weight cycling may have some effect on disease risk, the serious health problems resulting from obesity are clearly understood.

ANOTHER site you provided is: http://calorielab.com/news/2007/06/16/yo-yo-dieting-dangers-urban-legends-persist-despite-growing-scientific-evidence/

Which states this: Weight cycling is not desirable, but it is not as risky as staying significantly overweight.

Now, i haven't read them all, maybe you can stop attempting to be cocky and seriously provide me information that actually says its better to STAY FAT AND KEEP GAINING as most do, because losing weight is not what one should do because there is a possibility of regaining.

YES, i do agree that yo yo dieting has consequences -- i never said it didnt l-- it messes with metabolism, it causes stress, it plays havoc on your esteem -- what i said was those consequences are not A REASON for someone to NOT attempt to lose weight because of what ifs.

The point of the matter is -- i know of NO information that advocates a person STAYING fat because of what if they regain it concept. If you have actually information by a reputable source please provide it. The links you provided however, do kinda say lose even a little if you can.

Is it the way for all -- of course not. Some people i am sure need not lose anything to maintain health. i do know a hell of a lot about nutrition and gaining and losing weight. Not only from my own experience but from others as well as researching and reading. i have no clue what your weight or my weight proves with regard to that. Sorry but i have been bot fat and skinny in my life and its yet to have any bearing on my intelligence or knowledge of a subject.


angel
PS, i need a new keyboard so ignore the typos.




NihilusZero -> RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (5/16/2009 12:24:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyConstanze

And yes, any physician will tell you that it much more dangerous to yoyo with your weight as it does put a bigger strain on the body, and you actually don't need to be a brain surgeon to figure it out.

Just out of curiosity...isn't this argument based on the premise that a weight loss program where the motivation and discipline comes from a relationship partner is statistically more likely to fail (and consequently potentially turn into yoyoing) than a weight loss program where the motivation and discipline are self-created?

What about the odds of some one doing it all by their lonesome versus someone paying exorbitant fees to a gym trainer? If the odds are less favorable in the former, should a person refrain from attempting it until they can amass enough money to pay for such an assistant?

I think much of the hubbub about all this boils down to the fact that many people consider self-image one of those 'sacred traits' that cannot/shouldn't be surrendered in a D/s dynamic lest the one surrendering be taken to task about their psychological stability.




porcelaine -> RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (5/16/2009 1:05:01 AM)

considering the dynamic that i feel most comfortable with, this would simply be part and parcel of the surrender. if he felt compelled to influence my eating habits or make suggestions that he felt may be beneficial, why would i be opposed to his assistance? furthermore, if i knew i had a definitive problem gaining control over this area of my life, it would behoove me to say so. otherwise i'm really not presenting myself in a transparent manner and allowing him to become involved in my progress.

i cannot speak for others, but i do know that people are generally touchy about issues of this nature due to bad experiences, unrealistic expectations that may be completely unfounded, a host of fears including the fear of change, and a desire not to change as well. when i agreed to this dynamic i did so with the understanding that it was my responsibility to serve him well. i would view my reluctance to involve him as behavior that both hinders and ties his hands in a manner that does little to aid our pairing. if i'm able to hand select the areas he controls, i'd really begin to wonder why i was involved in an exchange at all.

porcelaine




daddysliloneds -> RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (5/16/2009 7:54:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

<snip>...Eventually, we had her up to jogging in ballet boots for half a mile a weekend...<snip>


i've been a ballerina most of my life and i've also been in track and cross country as well as gymnastics, but to jog in ballet boots? well now that i'd have to see to believe!




Ialdabaoth -> RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (5/16/2009 11:49:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

<snip>...Eventually, we had her up to jogging in ballet boots for half a mile a weekend...<snip>


i've been a ballerina most of my life and i've also been in track and cross country as well as gymnastics, but to jog in ballet boots? well now that i'd have to see to believe!


:) There used to be a Youtube video of her prancing about in the mall with them, but she deleted it when we broke up.




JstAnotherSub -> RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (5/16/2009 5:52:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

<snip>...Eventually, we had her up to jogging in ballet boots for half a mile a weekend...<snip>


i've been a ballerina most of my life and i've also been in track and cross country as well as gymnastics, but to jog in ballet boots? well now that i'd have to see to believe!


:) There used to be a Youtube video of her prancing about in the mall with them, but she deleted it when we broke up.


so prancing in a mall equals jogging a half mile?




Ialdabaoth -> RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (5/16/2009 6:23:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

<snip>...Eventually, we had her up to jogging in ballet boots for half a mile a weekend...<snip>


i've been a ballerina most of my life and i've also been in track and cross country as well as gymnastics, but to jog in ballet boots? well now that i'd have to see to believe!


:) There used to be a Youtube video of her prancing about in the mall with them, but she deleted it when we broke up.


so prancing in a mall equals jogging a half mile?


... uhh... noooo.... ?




Ialdabaoth -> RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (5/16/2009 7:53:57 PM)

Did a page worth of conversation disappear again?




JstAnotherSub -> RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (5/17/2009 7:53:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: daddysliloneds


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth

<snip>...Eventually, we had her up to jogging in ballet boots for half a mile a weekend...<snip>


i've been a ballerina most of my life and i've also been in track and cross country as well as gymnastics, but to jog in ballet boots? well now that i'd have to see to believe!


:) There used to be a Youtube video of her prancing about in the mall with them, but she deleted it when we broke up.


so prancing in a mall equals jogging a half mile?


... uhh... noooo.... ?


whew!  i thought you were offerin up a "used to be on youtube" video to daddys as proof of the joggin a half a mile...




Ialdabaoth -> RE: have You ever helped a sub with weight loss? (5/17/2009 11:56:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JstAnotherSub

whew!  i thought you were offerin up a "used to be on youtube" video to daddys as proof of the joggin a half a mile...


Nope; just mentioning it tangentially. "Proof" is a weird thing, anyways. You can see me do something with your own two eyes and still not believe me; if someone has it in their head that a thing did or didn't happen, all the evidence in the world typically won't sway them.




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