RE: GOP becoming a cartoon

Collarspace Discussion Forums

Home Login Search

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: GOP becoming a cartoon

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Login

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/13/2009 4:43:34 PM

DedicatedDom40

Posts: 350
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I have no real desire to speculate on Goldwater or Taft, but every Republican President since ROE has been strongly anti-abortion.

And this is where our train began riding off the rails. Get it? Its not too difficult to look down the tracks and see where a derailment began. The republican party never was about religion, then somebody wins a court case, and all of a sudden, we cant have an election without religion being front and center. Off the rails.

How did the republicans go from Taft, who didnt even want us to participate in NATO, to Colin Powell sitting in a room at NATO seeking world consenus for us to occupy another country? Another republican derailment, bigger this time.

As for the rest, I firmly believe there was no worldwide consensus on WMDs, only a few participants that fed a few key people in this country what they wanted to hear.

The office of the President of the United States is no place for some juvenile type of Texas-style schoolyard score settling. The office should be above using its power to settle a personal vendetta. Instead, we see behavior out of that office that we would typically see coming from some third world dictatorship.

The vast majority of the public supported Iraq when it was believed WMDs existed. When the WMD angle became exposed as a con - and YES, it WAS a con, the vast majority did an about face, mad as hell. The only people *still* on the Iraq march was ... was.... guess who?.... the politicians carrying the water for the hard Christian right.

< Message edited by DedicatedDom40 -- 3/13/2009 5:07:16 PM >

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 61

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/13/2009 8:52:33 PM

MarsBonfire

Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline

That's part of it, anyway. The real problem now for the GOP is its extremist stance. Look at where it is right now. Look at what's happening.

The leader of the minority side of Congress can't even venture an honest opinon about gays or abortion, without being called a witch, and the rest of his colleuges wanting to burn him at the stake.

Tax cuts for the rich have become so ingrained, that it's the ONLY solution they can propose.

They are so forced to be in lockstep (or maybe goosestep would be a better word) that they can't even say anything about a fat fool who was never elected to any office, who tells them that they have to parrot the most inane, unpatriotic crap that he spews without thought.

The closest thing they have to a leader is this same talk show host who is known to be only slightly less fascist than Kim Jung Ill.

They let these "entertainers" be the public face of the GOP, most of whom are about as credible as the Marx Brothers being led by John Lovitz' pathological liar. Or worse, in the case of those on the level of Ann Coulter, certifiably paranoid.

Honestly, the republicans are a smoking ruin. They are bereft of any ideas that America hasn't heard and tried before, and had fail. They are made of FAIL. Their core beliefs are FAIL personified. They are found to be a disaster on the national stage. They have no discernible leadership anymore. It's doubtful that their current "leadership" will last the weekend. Already he is being pressured to step down for the high crime of free speech. There are few (if any) new faces, minority faces, or faces that look like anything other than old, white, racist, homophobic, mean spirited assholes within the party. (As I mentioned during the campaign, playing a drinking game based on spotting minority faces at the RNC was a ticket to sober boredom.)

They are out of touch.

They have allowed themselves to become a museum peice. An artifact of a bygone age when it was okay to be racist, sexist, and a warmonger.

The GOP has become a rude joke to be told at a formal dinner party.

Critisizing them has become an act that feels similar to kicking a blind, starving mongrel puppy. You can do it, but you feel bad about yourself afterwards, because it's just wrong to attack something so lame and dying.

Please, GOP, pull yourselves together. America needs a two party system to maintain balance. But right now, you aren't viable. You went out on a power drunk for the last eight years, and now you are lying face down in a gutter filled with the vomit of your own hubris, and the dung and urine of failed policies that benefitted only the few. Pull your shit together please. You're embarassing yourselves.

::: looking away, so they don't see the sickened pity in my face:::

(in reply to DedicatedDom40)

Post #: 62

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 6:16:41 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I have no real desire to speculate on Goldwater or Taft, but every Republican President since ROE has been strongly anti-abortion.

And this is where our train began riding off the rails.

The vast majority of the public supported Iraq when it was believed WMDs existed. When the WMD angle became exposed as a con - and YES, it WAS a con

It's very hard for me (and, I think, for the Party's leadership), to see how the GOP is anything but a fringe player without the support of the "Christian right" (or "moral majority" or "values voter" or whatever nom de guerre is popular this cycle). I will not vote for a candidate who is not anti-abortion. Period. I'm not alone, and there are millions for whom it is an issue of importance if not an absolute deal-breaker.

As far as genuflecting before the tyranny of the minority, the spineless, and the mindless that is the United Nations- well, there's almost no need for a sentence; the introductory clause nearly suffices. Yet, if the choice is between the GOP and the Dims (and it is), and if this is your signature issue; there is no choice. If you prefer the isolationism of Taft, didn't you have a perfectly fine candidate in Ron Paul?

I agree with you that WMD in Iraq was a con; President Hussein (theirs, not ours) was extremely succesful promoting it

(in reply to DedicatedDom40)

Post #: 63

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 6:38:04 AM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

It's very hard for me (and, I think, for the Party's leadership), to see how the GOP is anything but a fringe player without the support of the "Christian right" (or "moral majority" or "values voter" or whatever nom de guerre is popular this cycle). I will not vote for a candidate who is not anti-abortion. Period. I'm not alone, and there are millions for whom it is an issue of importance if not an absolute deal-breaker.

As far as genuflecting before the tyranny of the minority, the spineless, and the mindless that is the United Nations- well, there's almost no need for a sentence; the introductory clause nearly suffices. Yet, if the choice is between the GOP and the Dims (and it is), and if this is your signature issue; there is no choice. If you prefer the isolationism of Taft, didn't you have a perfectly fine candidate in Ron Paul?

I agree with you that WMD in Iraq was a con; President Hussein (theirs, not ours) was extremely succesful promoting it

So hard to know where to begin.

Well, let's start here. It's really difficult to take you seriously when you insist on junior high debate tactics like calling Democrats "Dims".

But, I do have to wonder about single-issue voters, and why you think it makes sense to support or oppose a candidate, or an entire party based on one single political stance.

In the case of the United Nations, you may want to review some math skills. They are not the minority. And we are part of that organization that you describe as spineless and mindless.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 64

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 7:23:31 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

rulemylife:
"But, I do have to wonder about single-issue voters, and why you think it makes sense to support or oppose a candidate, or an entire party based on one single political stance."

That one is pretty simple. I consider abortion to be evil and will not support it.
There are those on the other side who will not support a candidate who is pro-death penalty.
While I cannot square the circle of allowing the murder of the unborn innocent while opposing the execution of the most heinously guilty, I admire standing up for what you believe in.

As far as my math skills are concerned, are you saying that the UN majority is composed of nations with freely electd governments with at least notional respect for western ideals?

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 65

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 7:27:55 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

rule:

Please read post #61.
Conservatives see a lot of pure, ideologically driven hate. I consider my "Dims" and "President Husseins" to be of a different character and flavor, somewhat closer to humor and satire, certainly less offensive.

(in reply to rulemylife)

Post #: 66

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 7:43:13 AM

MarsBonfire

Posts: 1034
Joined: 3/6/2005
Status: offline

Keep on truckin, truckin! LOL

As long as you guys keep taking the low road, you remain powerless.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 67

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 8:09:45 AM

SpinnerofTales

Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

rule:

Please read post #61.
Conservatives see a lot of pure, ideologically driven hate. I consider my "Dims" and "President Husseins" to be of a different character and flavor, somewhat closer to humor and satire, certainly less offensive.

I have a question and a comment, Truckin, both sincere.

The question is this and I really do want to understand this matter. You have said that you would not vote for any candidate who was anti-choice (let's face it, no one is "pro-abortion". I have yet to see anyone saying "What we need in this country is MORE abortions. I don't see pro-choice activists protesting outside of obstetrician's offices with signs about overpopulation while shouting at the pregnant women going for medical help that they are destroying the planet by bearing more children). But why, if you believe so strongly that every fetus should be brought to term and born, do you align yourself with a party that struggles so hard to prevent programs designed to reduce unwanted pregnancies? How can you advocate legislation that mandates that any fetus conceived be brought to term while supporting an agenda that views any program to aid, feed and care for those new lives as fiscal irresponsibility? In short, do you view the government's place as enforcing that every pregnancy result in a new life and after that it no longer matters what happens to them? I really want to understand this matter.

And as for my comment. Take this as a rancor free and totally honest evaluation. After seeing it in post after post, referring to the democrats as dims may be sarcastic...but it really just isn't that funny anymore. As I would to the republican party in general, I might suggest to you that it is time for some new ideas.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 68

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 8:12:48 AM

LadyEllen

Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline

The GOP is facing a while in the wilderness, exactly as I predicted six months ago just prior to the election. It will go through a period when its internal fighting will occupy all of its productive energy. It will seem to be a spent force for some time and will remain so until it returns to the table with something to offer that is not only acceptable but welcome.

This is not a bad thing. It is a necessary thing. If it does not happen then it will never, ever have any chance at securing power again. It may take one year, ten years or twenty years but it must happen.

The scenario is so alike with that of the UK Labour party from 1980 through to 1997, and the scenario of the UK Conservative party of 1997 through to (I hope) 2015 (at least) that the lessons are obvious. The Republicans have painted themselves into a corner which is no longer useful, relevant, acceptable or welcome - the policies which proved successful previously have been outmoded and only reinvention will make the party relevant again.

Why am I - who typically would vote Democrat were I a US citizen - advise this? Because another lesson we learned in the UK from these scenarios is that a viable and relevant opposition is absolutely necessary to prevent abuses of power of whichever party has taken over in the light of the failure of the other. When Labour were weak, the Conservatives ran roughshod over this country and destroyed much of the socio-economic fabric, when the situation was reversed we had the inexplicable support of a Labour prime minister for a war in Iraq that was patently stupid, if it were not illegal also.

Take heart GOP - and let this time be productive. Slay the dragons amongst you and emerge stronger and ready to be trusted again.

E

< Message edited by LadyEllen -- 3/14/2009 8:13:47 AM >

_____________________________

In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

(in reply to MarsBonfire)

Post #: 69

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 10:05:37 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

Spinner-

If one views abortion as murder (I do; it is), then the first thing one must do as a voter is align with those who would prevent it. Anything after that is a lesser evil. We can argue all we want about whether handing out condoms (in some cases to middle-schoolers) slows or advances the rate of teenage pregnacy; but no possible outcome of that discussion justifies the killing of unborn babies.
I'm not Catholic, but it seems to me the RCC is moving that way. Didn't a prelate in SC tell his congregation that voting for Obama was a mortal sin for which they should do penance before taking communion? That's pretty much where I am. I will not- cannot- vote for someone in favor of the legal killing of innocent human life (I choose not to use the namby-pamby, NOW-approved, euphemistic, weak, "pro-choice" or many of the other PC-approved phrases).
As far as "dims", lol, lighten up. Read #61 and #66. Yeah, I'm on the low road.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)

Post #: 70

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 11:23:57 AM

SpinnerofTales

Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

'm not Catholic, but it seems to me the RCC is moving that way. Didn't a prelate in SC tell his congregation that voting for Obama was a mortal sin for which they should do penance before taking communion? That's pretty much where I am. I will not- cannot- vote for someone in favor of the legal killing of innocent human life

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I understand your point. However, and without making any of the multitude of honest but nasty comments about the Caotholic church, let me quote another school of philosophy for you. The Chinese have long had a belief that if you save someone's life, you become responsible for that person because you have interfered with their karma and taken their future in your hands. Once again, if you believe in taking action to make sure that those lives your convictions have insured don't spend that life in absolute misery and at the least are clothed, fed and not abused? Or does the responsibility end the moment they exit the body of the mother?

Oh..and btw...by definition, abortion is not murder Murder is a legal concept and denotes the unauthorized ending of another's life. While legal, an abortion is no more murder than execution, killing someone in war or any number of other cases where killing is sanctioned, before or after the fact, by the ruling authorities. If you want to argue that it's killing, that's one thing, but murder is the wrong word.

< Message edited by SpinnerofTales -- 3/14/2009 11:26:26 AM >

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 71

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 11:32:18 AM

DedicatedDom40

Posts: 350
Joined: 9/22/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

That one is pretty simple. I consider abortion to be evil and will not support it.

I can respect someone else's personal views on abortion. I do acknowledge, however, that those views are often driven by religion. Our government is not, and should not ever, be driven by religion. If you feel strongly about abortion, become a priest and change hearts and minds of the general public that way. But when we start allowing our religious views to decide how to pull a lever in the voting booth, we are no different than these raghead countries where people have allowed Islam to take a dominant hold over their civilian governments. We are no different from them, we are just sitting on the opposite side of the fence. If we think its justified to grab guns and go after extremist muslims who take over governments in far away lands, then we should be equally justified to grab guns and go after the extremist christians who try to contol this one.

There is a big difference in having your vote be guided by your spirituality, and defining your vote BY your spirituality. The former is commendable, the latter is cowardice.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 72

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 11:41:12 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

That one is pretty simple. I consider abortion to be evil and will not support it.

I can respect someone else's personal views on abortion. I do acknowledge, however, that those views are often driven by religion. Our government is not, and should not ever, be driven by religion. If you feel strongly about abortion, become a priest and change hearts and minds of the general public that way. But when we start allowing our religious views to decide how to pull a lever in the voting booth, we are no different than these raghead countries where people have allowed Islam to take a dominant hold over their civilian governments. We are no different from them, we are just sitting on the opposite side of the fence. If we think its justified to grab guns and go after extremist muslims who take over governments in far away lands, then we should be equally justified to grab guns and go after the extremist christians who try to contol this one.

There is a big difference in having your vote be guided by your spirituality, and defining your vote BY your spirituality. The former is commendable, the latter is cowardice.

In think we're going to have to agree to disagree %100 on this one.
It is the coward that lacks the strength of their convictions, religious, "spritual", or otherwise; that strength manifestly should carry into the voting booth.
My stand against abortion would remain were I an atheist, btw.

(in reply to DedicatedDom40)

Post #: 73

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 11:46:10 AM

SpinnerofTales

Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

In think we're going to have to agree to disagree %100 on this one.
It is the coward that lacks the strength of their convictions, religious, "spritual", or otherwise; that strength manifestly should carry into the voting booth.
My stand against abortion would remain were I an atheist, btw.

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

But I am not asking about your commitment to your beliefs on the evils of abortion. I am asking if you feel that your responsibility to a fetus ends the moment it is born.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 74

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 11:47:17 AM

truckinslave

Posts: 3897
Joined: 6/16/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

'm not Catholic, but it seems to me the RCC is moving that way. Didn't a prelate in SC tell his congregation that voting for Obama was a mortal sin for which they should do penance before taking communion? That's pretty much where I am. I will not- cannot- vote for someone in favor of the legal killing of innocent human life

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I understand your point. However, and without making any of the multitude of honest but nasty comments about the Caotholic church, let me quote another school of philosophy for you. The Chinese have long had a belief that if you save someone's life, you become responsible for that person because you have interfered with their karma and taken their future in your hands. Once again, if you believe in taking action to make sure that those lives your convictions have insured don't spend that life in absolute misery and at the least are clothed, fed and not abused? Or does the responsibility end the moment they exit the body of the mother?

Oh..and btw...by definition, abortion is not murder Murder is a legal concept and denotes the unauthorized ending of another's life. While legal, an abortion is no more murder than execution, killing someone in war or any number of other cases where killing is sanctioned, before or after the fact, by the ruling authorities. If you want to argue that it's killing, that's one thing, but murder is the wrong word.

You elucidate a Chinese belief and tell me I should be governed by it?
I began my post by saying "If one views abortion as murder......" I'm aware, generally, of the legal definitions of both murder and abortion in the United States, and I am generally aware of others elsewhere. I accept what I consider to be higher definitions in my personal life.

(in reply to SpinnerofTales)

Post #: 75

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 11:53:52 AM

SpinnerofTales

Posts: 1586
Joined: 5/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

You elucidate a Chinese belief and tell me I should be governed by it?
I began my post by saying "If one views abortion as murder......" I'm aware, generally, of the legal definitions of both murder and abortion in the United States, and I am generally aware of others elsewhere. I accept what I consider to be higher definitions in my personal life.

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I will ask once more, Truckin....Given that you do not think abortion should be an option, what responsibility does a society that insists a child be carried to term and born bear for the care of that child? A baby's needs don't end when they exit the womb, they begin. They then need food, clothing, education, etc. Ideally, it is the parents that should provide that. But if they do not or cannot, is that just the baby's hard luck?

So once more I ask, does the responsibility of someone who wants to legally ban abortion as an option for those children born as a result end when they take their first independent breath?

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 76

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 12:23:58 PM

4u2spoil

Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

I vote die-hard Republican for two reasons: guns and abortion.

I don't think I'll ever be able to wrap my head around how these two issues end up being championed at the same time. And debate on the second really should only be left to people with wombs.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 77

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 12:26:13 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

As far as my math skills are concerned, are you saying that the UN majority is composed of nations with freely electd governments with at least notional respect for western ideals?

No, and that is their entire purpose, to bring together nations that don't share the same ideals.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 78

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 12:32:33 PM

4u2spoil

Posts: 211
Joined: 5/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DedicatedDom40

You do lose me on the social conservative issues of abortion, gay marriage, stem cells, and the like. None of this nonsense would have ever made it into the agenda of a Goldwater or a Taft, nor should it have ever entered into the agenda of ANY republican. I dont have a problem with spiritual politicans, but I flatly reject any politician who runs on spiritual issues. If they are so obsessed with spiritual issues, then they need to become a priest and not a politican.

As for patriotism and support of the military, the country should inspire it based on the actions of its leaders, rather than demand compliance to the ideal from those who disagree. If the right is making patriotism a huge issue at every turn, then its only because our actions failed to legitimately inspire it. You cant legislate patriotism any more than you can legislate morals. The republicans need to wake up, and stop wasting that energy.

The reasons you mentioned are exactly why I can't bring myself to become a registered independent, even if I don't agree with everything the Democrats do.

(in reply to DedicatedDom40)

Post #: 79

RE: GOP becoming a cartoon - 3/14/2009 12:34:04 PM

rulemylife

Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: truckinslave

rule:

Please read post #61.
Conservatives see a lot of pure, ideologically driven hate. I consider my "Dims" and "President Husseins" to be of a different character and flavor, somewhat closer to humor and satire, certainly less offensive.

OK, I looked at #61.

Assuming you specified the right post, the only thing I saw was a coherent argument that , I guess, didn't agree with your perspective.

There was nothing hateful or even ideologically driven considering the poster is himself a self-described conservative.

(in reply to truckinslave)

Post #: 80

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

All Forums >> [Casual Banter] >> Off the Grid >> RE: GOP becoming a cartoon

Page: << < prev 2 3 [4] 5 6 next > >>

Jump to:

New Messages	No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages	Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages	Locked w/o New Messages

Post New Thread

Reply to Message

Post New Poll

Submit Vote

Delete My Own Post

Delete My Own Thread

Rate Posts

Collarchat.com © 2025

Terms of Service

0.109