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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/15/2009 9:04:20 PM   
BKSir


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Yeah the execs have contracts for these bonuses, and since they did not go bankrupt, they are still bound by those contracts. I want to know how these execs even keep their jobs since the performance of the company was so poor. If I were someone in the government, I would want to know why these execs are still working there. There is the problem of replacing them, but I am sure a junior exec or two would like a chance to try and turn things around and make a name for themselves.


Problem replacing them?  Bullshit.  Any work-a-day mom or dad could do better than these retarded chimps.  They know that "If I have $X, and these things cost $L, and L is more than X, it just won't work!  So, we'll cut some things out of $L to make it match $X, or even better to make it LESS than $X, so we have a little left over to put away for later."  Billions of people do this kind of thing every day, it's not that hard to comprehend.

*lays his two pennies on the table and glares at A.I.G.  "Keep your fuckin' paws off!"*


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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/15/2009 9:54:00 PM   
OrionTheWolf


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If it were only that simple. The workings of any large corporation require knowledge. I am not defending them, I am just saying that you comment has little fact contained within it. The only bullshit is your apparent knowledge of the workings of a company that large, and the knowledge required to run it. We can make all the flippant comments we like, yes they have done a horrible job, but not just anyone can be an executive of an insurance company, that is bullshit. You make it sound so simple, I take it you are secretly a millionaire?

quote:

ORIGINAL: BKSir

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Yeah the execs have contracts for these bonuses, and since they did not go bankrupt, they are still bound by those contracts. I want to know how these execs even keep their jobs since the performance of the company was so poor. If I were someone in the government, I would want to know why these execs are still working there. There is the problem of replacing them, but I am sure a junior exec or two would like a chance to try and turn things around and make a name for themselves.


Problem replacing them?  Bullshit.  Any work-a-day mom or dad could do better than these retarded chimps.  They know that "If I have $X, and these things cost $L, and L is more than X, it just won't work!  So, we'll cut some things out of $L to make it match $X, or even better to make it LESS than $X, so we have a little left over to put away for later."  Billions of people do this kind of thing every day, it's not that hard to comprehend.

*lays his two pennies on the table and glares at A.I.G.  "Keep your fuckin' paws off!"*



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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/15/2009 11:01:34 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Yeah the execs have contracts for these bonuses, and since they did not go bankrupt, they are still bound by those contracts. I want to know how these execs even keep their jobs since the performance of the company was so poor. If I were someone in the government, I would want to know why these execs are still working there. There is the problem of replacing them, but I am sure a junior exec or two would like a chance to try and turn things around and make a name for themselves.


It has to make me wonder why these were not performance based contracts.

Maybe a symptom of why AIG is in the situation it is.

You have a failing company giving huge rewards to its workers.

Amazing!

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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/15/2009 11:56:31 PM   
rulemylife


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AIG says emergency aid used to pay other banks (AP)


NEW YORK – American International Group Inc. used more than $90 billion in federal aid to pay out foreign and domestic banks, some of whom had received their own multibillion-dollar U.S. government bailouts.

The embattled insurer's disclosure on Sunday came amid outrage on Capitol Hill over its payment of tens of millions in executive bonuses, and followed demands from lawmakers that the names of trading partners who indirectly benefited from federal aid to AIG be made public.

The company, now about 80 percent owned by U.S. taxpayers, has received roughly $170 billion from the government, which feared that its collapse could cause widespread damage to banks and consumers around the globe.

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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 1:24:08 AM   
VanessaChaland


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 And some people have the gall to ask why I drink Merlot by the truck load. :)

I must be a moron. I work, own a couple of companies, pay my taxes, don't litter, did not buy more house than I can afford, recycle, floss, donate to charity, help old ladies across the street, never play with matches, tip the wait staff well and usually don't orgasm unless its on someones face. :)

I need a new roof, my dog needs to go to the vet, my accountant is giving me fucking panic attacks (and a headache), I have family members with serious medical issues that I am helping to pay for, and I sometimes feel like I am treading water with an anchor tied to my feet (not into marine related bondage mind you). 
That anchor is the USA governmental pols and the cronies that they support, and are bailing out, who supported the pols to get elected, who after election will bailout the moron CEOs that run the companies that donate to the pols, who will give bailouts to those aforementioned company CEOs who fucked everything up to begin with.

Oh wait, now I get it. I never should have assumed that doing the right thing, working hard and being honest was the way to get ahead. :)


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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 5:47:33 AM   
OrionTheWolf


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I completely agree, and if the government is going to bail them out, then the tax payers should be allowed to see these contracts. I believe in performance based pay for execs at that level, not just performance based salaries. This is why I am a contractor in the business/software field I am in. I am a hired gun and only get paid for results and if I create billable time. I like it that way because I control my salary.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

Yeah the execs have contracts for these bonuses, and since they did not go bankrupt, they are still bound by those contracts. I want to know how these execs even keep their jobs since the performance of the company was so poor. If I were someone in the government, I would want to know why these execs are still working there. There is the problem of replacing them, but I am sure a junior exec or two would like a chance to try and turn things around and make a name for themselves.


It has to make me wonder why these were not performance based contracts.

Maybe a symptom of why AIG is in the situation it is.

You have a failing company giving huge rewards to its workers.

Amazing!



_____________________________

When speaking of slaves people always tend to ignore this definition "One who is abjectly subservient to a specified person or influence."

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 7:41:50 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: VanessaChaland

Oh wait, now I get it. I never should have assumed that doing the right thing, working hard and being honest was the way to get ahead. :)



Don't let that get you down.

We all make mistakes.

You're still young, plenty of time to learn to lie, cheat, and steal your way into a multi-million dollar golden parachute.



(in reply to VanessaChaland)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 8:12:56 AM   
Mercnbeth


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Seeing Senator Frank and other talking heads pontificate and attempt to make themselves credible by castigating AIG for paying out these bonuses points out that you can "fool all of the people all of the time".

How many of you now incredulous at these payouts are also on the side of bailing out these failures? You should know, you can't be both for a 'bail-out' and against these pay outs. Fund the bail out and you guarantee that these contractually obligated bonus payouts will be paid. The only way not to pay them, would be to let the mismanaged failures - fail.

Does anyone know WHY AIG failed? The division that incurred the losses did not write one 'bad', under collateralized, no income verification, loan. What they did was provide 'insurance' in the event of a portfolio of these loans defaulting at a specific percentage, over a specific period of time, underwritten under specific terms unique to each program. Once the criteria was set, by actuaries living in the bowels of these companies, coverage was offered for it throughout the world. You can buy insurance for anything.

In the world of actuaries, it's all about probability. A 500 year flood may occur every other year, but historically and with modern preventative methods, it should only occur every 500 years based on mathematic and statistical models that far exceed my ability to totally understand. Except, unlike flood records going back centuries, these credit insurance instruments are new. Also, unlike floods, they aren't manipulated by "good intent" political agenda, seeking 100% homeownership including people who didn't qualify when the actuary tables were being written.

Based upon the actuarial analysis the insurance company prices the insurance based upon that probability and its sold through various levels from company President down to individual producers. These people have very little to no input on pricing or the actuarial analysis. They know one thing - if they sell it under their contract, they will be paid. If they reach certain levels of market penetration they will get bonuses.

Guess what - they sold the hell out of these policies; generating for AIG Billions in premium dollars. Guess what #2 - actuary statistics didn't account for a 500 year flood of default hitting last year. But it did and claims had to be contractually paid out. Since 'contingency' bonus have been virtually eliminated due to that great insurance 'god' from NY, Ex-Governor Spritzer (you know-the prostitute benefactor), you can't make bonuses contingent on claims so production bonuses are NOT impacted. Ergo - if you have a viable company you have to pay the claims, this is the money going to foreign banks from the bail-out; and the production bonuses. You want to eliminate it - let the company FAIL. 

As a side bar; I think it incredible that Senator Frank can sit there on camera and claim ignorance to the basic facts I've presented. What explains a lot was hearing last night that our Federal Reserve Chairman Bernanke, never has been to Wall Street or inside a large Corporation. All his 'knowledge' comes from academia. He has no practical experience. Now his actions and all his "I hope..." statements make much more sense. He has only theory and academic modeling on his resume. Granted, he's smart and has a fantastic academic record, but if you had your choice of having the #1 graduating doctor from Harvard Med School deliver your baby on his graduation day or a emergency medical technician wearing a 'I Delivered 100 Babies' pin; who would you prefer? In a crisis, sometimes practical experience is more valued that theoretical knowledge. 

Almost as incredible that people accept what Bernanke and Frank say as absolute and accurate. So, to all the apologists, were they stupid to approve the bail-out not knowing about the bonuses or were they complicit, knowing about the bonuses but saying nothing until they became public? Either way - why isn't any scrutiny being placed upon these representatives? I guess admitting up front that they only looked at it for "3 minutes" gets them off the hook - right? Then again, the religion of politics and political affiliation, and consideration of facts seem to be more and more distant each and every day. It's much easier to say; "It's Bush's fault!" - and the crowd goes wild...

quote:

As the bonus firestorm raged, AIG finally released the list of its trading partners, revealing that much of the bailout billions have gone to settle obligations to European banks.
French financial firm Societe Generale topped the list, receiving $4 billion, followed by Deutsche Bank and Goldman Sachs with about $2.5 billion each.
AIG owed billions because it had insured tons of risky transactions that all went sour.
The execs who made most of those risky bets are the same ones getting bonuses.

Source: BONUS - BAIL-OUT


< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 3/16/2009 9:00:15 AM >

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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 8:36:35 AM   
rulemylife


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I knew you would show up in this discussion Merc. 

And for once, I can't disagree with anything you said.

Which actually kind of scares me.

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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 9:13:48 AM   
SpinnerofTales


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I knew you would show up in this discussion Merc. 

And for once, I can't disagree with anything you said.

Which actually kind of scares me.



I know..I agree with him too..and I find that very frigtening indeed.

So the question is: What the hell do we do about AIG?

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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 9:27:30 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I knew you would show up in this discussion Merc. 

And for once, I can't disagree with anything you said.

Which actually kind of scares me.



I know..I agree with him too..and I find that very frigtening indeed.

So the question is: What the hell do we do about AIG


Nuke 'em?





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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 9:29:09 AM   
SilverMark


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Merc, Although Bernake hasn't spent time on Wall Street the man who divised the original Bailout had!...Mr. Paulsen was the originator of that part of the nightmare. I did indeed support the original bailout based on the credit issues and with Paulsen's experience at Lehman thought that contingencies for these issues would indeed have been thought of. Of course in my haste to hope for a turn around in the credit markets I was most assuredly wrong. Frank doesn't bother me nearly as much as some others but do understand your disgust. I would never have seen it coming as it has but, I am not a Wall Street Guru....once again if they are all so damn smart why didn't they cover the issues entirely?...both sides fucked this one up!...and We get to pay for it all!

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The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 10:03:45 AM   
StrangerThan


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Merc, Although Bernake hasn't spent time on Wall Street the man who divised the original Bailout had!...Mr. Paulsen was the originator of that part of the nightmare. I did indeed support the original bailout based on the credit issues and with Paulsen's experience at Lehman thought that contingencies for these issues would indeed have been thought of. Of course in my haste to hope for a turn around in the credit markets I was most assuredly wrong. Frank doesn't bother me nearly as much as some others but do understand your disgust. I would never have seen it coming as it has but, I am not a Wall Street Guru....once again if they are all so damn smart why didn't they cover the issues entirely?...both sides fucked this one up!...and We get to pay for it all!


Just about every one of them disgusts me, Frank included.

Any Republican or Democrat who is not completely and absolutely pissed at their own party, much less the other party, has no credibility. They're as much a talking head as Rush. Both sides knew what was happening, both sides took part in crafting legislation to let it happen, both sides looked the other way while it happened, both sides lined a lot of pockets while it was happening.

And now both sides are pointing fingers to the other as if all the blame rests somewhere else, and both sides want us to pay the bill.

I spent two tours of duty in the military and pride myself on being able to string curses into lines capable of wilting flowers, blinding old people and scaring children gray. But I swear, I'm almost speechless when it comes to the squirming need to avoid responsibility by both corporate america and our government.

But woo hoo, I just saw my part of the Bailout in the $30 or so my check changed. Now damn, I will rush right out and revitalize the American economy with that.

< Message edited by StrangerThan -- 3/16/2009 10:06:31 AM >


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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 10:04:52 AM   
UncleNasty


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My understanding from several months back Merc is that AIG was also investing in precisely the assets they were insuring against loss. Not a wise course I would say.


Some of the parties involved in this large picture are being enriched from several sources: Collecting on insurance policies, receiving bailout funds, and still foreclosing on homes (which, contrary to the oft repeated phrases "the bank doesn't want your house" and "banks loose money on foreclosures," is actually a rather profitable undertaking).

Uncle Nasty

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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 10:12:25 AM   
SilverMark


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SpinnerofTales

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

I knew you would show up in this discussion Merc. 

And for once, I can't disagree with anything you said.

Which actually kind of scares me.



I know..I agree with him too..and I find that very frigtening indeed.

So the question is: What the hell do we do about AIG?

Considering that we the taxpayers fairly well own them, split the goups up as individual companies...allow the bad parts to fail and use the good to pay us back!
They still have some fairly profitable parts of the company use those parts to eat the toxic assets and to pay back the billions they owe the U.S. taxpayers. Not that I claim some inate knowledge of such things but, I do know a little about moving parts of your business for the success of the whole.



_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 10:51:14 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

I would never have seen it coming as it has but, I am not a Wall Street Guru....
SM, I don't doubt that many "saw it coming"; but being a lone voice of reason, or even representing descent in a Board Room full of Capitalists (good intending or evil) is a short term career path.  
quote:

once again if they are all so damn smart why didn't they cover the issues entirely?...
There is a valid reason, but I doubt many will accept it. Regulatory statutes change with the change in political winds. Insurance entities by their very nature, can not change and amend their policy terms as quickly. There is also the 'tail' on existing policies. After the RE market was opened and previously unqualified applicants magically qualified for a loan where payments were projected at a multiple of income instead of a percentage of it, the insurance policy couldn't be retro-fitted or amended. It was already in place and purchased by financial institutions. The 'tail' of liability extended for the entire term of the loan. Although the product could have been 'taken off the shelf'; that would have impeded cash flow and perhaps the same result would have occurred.

When the 'good intending' removal of performance based 'contingency' bonuses were eliminated by insurance companies due to Spritzer's public attacks which he used to achieve the NY Governor's mansion; it was not anticipated that their removal would, down the road, lead to no performance language written into the bonus programs for insurance officers, managers, and producers. When the RE credit markets were expanded by Congressional action to make everyone qualify, do you think if AIG wanted to subsequently eliminate the insurance coverage, since the conditions they predicted a 'flood' changed, they would have been allowed to do so? Where did you expect the voice to come from or be heard? The guy making $500/week, had a 500 credit score who all of a sudden got instant approval for a $400k home in Riverside sent his Congressperson a fruit basket. You want to try an explain to this man; at best still working but more than likely now unemployed, living in the same house being foreclosed and listed at a $200k value why his Congressional representative, now pontificating on TV about the evils of AIG should be the source of his ire and not be supported next election? Good luck trying to have the masses understand that concept. Evil AIG is a better target and doesn't require an upgraded knowledge base.  

The autopsy report on AIG would have many such "could of..." or "should of.."scenarios but since it's not dead and goes on infecting others while the cost of its life support increases every day - we may never get to that point. However it could be given as a 'cause' and 'affect' exercise when the collapse of the USA is discussed by future generations.

quote:

both sides fucked this one up!...and We get to pay for it all!
There is a old saying that should be hung as a 'sampler' in every business person's office; "Your First Loss Is Your Best Loss". Best case - eliminate the product when the rules changed. Second best, when they didn't do that - let them fail when they can't pay their claims, as would occur when any insurance company insolvency. Granted, the collapse of AIG would have created worldwide ripples, but the solution would have already been in place out of necessity if there was no attempt to 'rescue' the entity through artificial means.

Remove all the emotions and make it a given, that at the time both sides "fucked this one up"; good intending legislators and evil, or good for the shareholders, capitalists. AIG was not and is not asset-less. A bankruptcy and subsequent liquidation would have devalued many assets across the board for all citizens; disproportionate in dollars affecting the 'rich', disproportionate in percentage of value on the 'poor'/'working class'/'middle class'. But it would have been very visible. There would be no bonuses. The insurance payout to financial institutions, foreign and domestic, would have been transparent and a matter of public record. Any expenditure made in the preceding 120 days by a Bankrupt AIG would have been public.

Maybe that's why both sides who "fucked up" prefer this 'bail-out' method. It keeps the special interest money flowing and serves as a perfect distraction to the masses who take as absolute and believe everything they hear, without questioning, on the Sunday talking heads shows. They encourage and point you assigning blame instead of using the same time to draw your own conclusions independent of political agenda. They want, need, and do their best to generate a confused, polarized, scared, and finger pointing 'us' versus 'them' social dynamic. From a tactical standpoint I commend their efforts. Go ahead, take sides; either choice makes you the one paying the check for their Corporate meal at the taxpayer's expense.

To me the 'worst' worse case is this, taking place this morning at a :
quote:

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama declared Monday that insurance giant American International Group is in financial straits because of "recklessness and greed" and said he intends to stop it from paying out millions in executive bonuses.
"It's hard to understand how derivative traders at AIG warranted any bonuses, much less $165 million in extra pay," Obama said at the outset of an appearance to announce help for small businesses hurt by the deep recession.
"How do they justify this outrage to the taxpayers who are keeping the company afloat," the president said.
Source: I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I SIGNED 


It represents an Administration who either wants to continue the charade of Government ignorance regarding the details of the very economic program they called "necessary", "critical", and the path to "solving" the existing crisis; or worse - they really didn't know. Which do you think? 

Senator Frank's daily quote from the same source was hypocrisy at its finest:
quote:

Rep. Barney Frank, chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, earlier Monday charged that the move to pay bonuses amounted to "rewarding incompetence."
Speaking of "rewarding incompetence"; how many times has he been re-elected? Care to wager against him being re-elected again? Then again its not their fault, they just had to do something!
quote:

U.S. Rep. David Obey (D-WI), the chairman of the House Appropriations Committee, helped write the bill and says he doesn't like being asked about earmarks.
"We simply made a decision, which took about three seconds, not to have earmarks in the bill," he says. "And with all due respect, that's the least important question facing us on putting together this package." David Walker, a former U.S. comptroller general, the bill appears to have no mechanism for directing spending. Source: DON'T READ - JUST SIGN


I doubt enough people will appreciate that the same Congressperson who enabled them to live short term in a home they couldn't afford, is the same one wanting their tax money going to bail out the people reponsible for them being removed from it.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 3/16/2009 10:52:23 AM >

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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 10:58:10 AM   
SilverMark


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Hold the bonuses and let them sue!.....tie it up in court long enough and the company will no longer exist!.....

_____________________________

If you have sex with a siamese twin, is it considered a threesome?

The trouble with ignorance is that it picks up confidence as it goes along.
- Arnold H. Glasow

It may be your sole purpose in life to simply serve as a warning to others!

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 11:25:29 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMark

Hold the bonuses and let them sue!.....tie it up in court long enough and the company will no longer exist!.....
SM, Your emotional reaction is absolutely correct and appropriate. Pragmatically, the result at the end of the expensive and protracted litigation, would be the same; payout of the bonus - plus interest.

If you're suggesting AIG go Bankrupt - I'm on your side. I hope you'll join me and apply the same logic across the board where similar, if yet undisclosed, reprehensible actions have occurred in both the commercial and private sectors. The size of this 'bonus' shouldn't make it generate any more, or less, disdain than a individual living down the block from you who gets a 'bonus' of having $50k of their loan forgiven as the result of an arbitrary judiciary 'bail-out' at the bankruptcy court. If you're suggesting AIG would be acquired by someone else, the liability would be transfered to the acquiring company. More than likely, the purchase of AIG will be assisted by the government either as a funding assist or guarantor. Meaning that US taxpayers would still be paying for the bonus, or the associated litigation.

Then again - this is 'mission accomplished' for this Congress and this Administration. Your focus on this symptom, executive bonuses, distracts from the big picture. As emotionally satisfying as it would be financially expensive to see your recommendation followed, it is not a path to finding a cure for the disease of special interest agenda being the be all and end all policy for our elected officials of either political party. To address that all it takes is for everyone to eliminate party from consideration when voting in any election for any position.

I've been on the 'none of the above' bandwagon for years. It doesn't make an impact. However if you go back to the old 60's mentality of going against the 'establishment' it can make an impact. Its beauty is in its simplicity. All it takes it to vote against anyone currently holding office, in any election. Vote 'NO'- vote against, and be active against, anyone running for re-election. For a time, we the voters should galvanize together and just vote 'NO'. It may require a few election cycles, but if followed it will require attention from both parties, or ideally it may plant the seeds from which a new one grows. Once the message gets across we can resume infighting and go back to our personal agendas regarding issues. Right now - to take back the electoral process, we need to keep the choice and focus simple - VOTE NO!

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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 1:34:02 PM   
rulemylife


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Obama will try to block executive bonuses at AIG

WASHINGTON – President Barack Obama declared Monday that insurance giant American International Group is in financial straits because of "recklessness and greed" and said he intends to stop it from paying out millions in executive bonuses.

"It's hard to understand how derivative traders at AIG warranted any bonuses, much less $165 million in extra pay," Obama said at the outset of an appearance to announce help for small businesses hurt by the deep recession.

"How do they justify this outrage to the taxpayers who are keeping the company afloat," the president said.

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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/16/2009 2:45:27 PM   
Lordandmaster


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Joined: 6/22/2004
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Merc--that may all be true, but it doesn't explain why people are pissed off.  People are pissed off because they've been reading about one abuse after another at AIG since the bailouts.  They're really not in any mood to hear about THESE bonuses, even if they're unavoidable, after everything that has been uncovered about unjustifiable bonuses in the past.  I remember reading an article, within a couple of weeks of the original bailout, outlining an exclusive quail-hunting trip in Yorkshire for select AIG execs--to the tune of $80,000 a head.  You're going to have a hard time convincing people that perqs like that are warranted.

And it's hardly the case that AIG is the only corporation people are pissed off at.  Most people hear "AIG" and think "Another big corporation that stole people's money in ways I can't fully comprehend but should be illegal."

I do agree that here's a lot of political posturing going on.  It was important for Obama to speak out against this latest round of bonuses, but he knew full well that there was nothing anyone could do about them.  It was a bit of a potshot.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Does anyone know WHY AIG failed? The division that incurred the losses did not write one 'bad', under collateralized, no income verification, loan. What they did was provide 'insurance' in the event of a portfolio of these loans defaulting at a specific percentage, over a specific period of time, underwritten under specific terms unique to each program. Once the criteria was set, by actuaries living in the bowels of these companies, coverage was offered for it throughout the world. You can buy insurance for anything.

In the world of actuaries, it's all about probability. A 500 year flood may occur every other year, but historically and with modern preventative methods, it should only occur every 500 years based on mathematic and statistical models that far exceed my ability to totally understand. Except, unlike flood records going back centuries, these credit insurance instruments are new. Also, unlike floods, they aren't manipulated by "good intent" political agenda, seeking 100% homeownership including people who didn't qualify when the actuary tables were being written.

Based upon the actuarial analysis the insurance company prices the insurance based upon that probability and its sold through various levels from company President down to individual producers. These people have very little to no input on pricing or the actuarial analysis. They know one thing - if they sell it under their contract, they will be paid. If they reach certain levels of market penetration they will get bonuses.

Guess what - they sold the hell out of these policies; generating for AIG Billions in premium dollars. Guess what #2 - actuary statistics didn't account for a 500 year flood of default hitting last year. But it did and claims had to be contractually paid out. Since 'contingency' bonus have been virtually eliminated due to that great insurance 'god' from NY, Ex-Governor Spritzer (you know-the prostitute benefactor), you can't make bonuses contingent on claims so production bonuses are NOT impacted. Ergo - if you have a viable company you have to pay the claims, this is the money going to foreign banks from the bail-out; and the production bonuses. You want to eliminate it - let the company FAIL.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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