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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 10:30:13 AM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline 		While I haven't seen the news today, were these "breaking news reports" on Fox by any chance?

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 10:49:22 AM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

This just in....

Senator Barack Obama received a $101,332 bonus from American International Group in the form of political contributions according to Opensecrets.org. The two biggest Congressional recipients of bonuses from the A.I.G. are Senators Chris Dodd and Senator Barack Obama.

Stay tuned - the next news bulletin will be that they "didn't know" and will be sending the money back! Perhaps they can personally walk it over to the Treasury. Can't give it to the Treasury Secretary Geithner; he may not realize he has to put it in the Treasury - like his taxes.




What would be interesting to know is the TOTAL amount given to the respective parties by AIG.  The republicans have more vehicles by which money can be given to the party or a particular candidate.  Once you have the totals, which I bet are relatively equal, you could ask say McCain about it.  I would bet he looks dumbfounded that AIG gave that kind of money to the republican party and his candidacy. Likewise with Obama.  We spend all day criticizing how brainless the members of both parties are.  Should we be surprised when corporations like AIG come under the radar and make them look like fools?  I noticed in the list of benefactors AIG full name was used.  How many of the egotists in government even know what AIG stands for and would a check from a company in its full name be recognized?  Even on a simple level, would republicans or democrats knowingly accept AIG money knowing that it will blow up in their face.  I just submit both parties are simple minded and stupid; not to mention greedy and that there greed gets them caught in stupid situations that at times they would not knowingly get into.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 3/19/2009 10:50:44 AM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 11:21:29 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

Once you have the totals, which I bet are relatively equal, you could ask say McCain about it. 

You'd be wrong both in number and dollar. You quoted the source of the answer you seek. Would it be too much to expect for you to have referenced it?

Click and learn:  FOLLOW THE MONEY


PS - Senator McCain was #3 $58,499, Senator Clinton, #4 $37,965. In betting parlance, that's known as hedging your bet. One of them had to sign off on the Bill. Dodd being #2, a scant $432 less than Obama; had to write in the exclusionary language. But of course, the 'crime' is perceived as getting caught, not the acceptance of the money. Although it sure is fun watching them squirm while trying to distance themselves from that reality. Almost as fun as watching the Obamite 'faithful'. 

(in reply to Lorr47)
Profile   Post #: 83
RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 11:37:18 AM   
ienigma777


Posts: 283
Joined: 2/20/2009
Status: offline 		Hello Termiyn8or;
Thank you;....Now I have it, but the question still remains.....Who is Monty Montana and why is he always the mayor of the rose bowl parade?

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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 12:05:44 PM   
CreativeDominant


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

While I haven't seen the news today, were these "breaking news reports" on Fox by any chance?
It always tickles me to see the way that FOX is disparaged by the same people who so staunchly defend ABC, CBS, NBC as being "neutral" while the Pugh Report and the Washington Post---both liberal organizations---admit that they have not seen such cheerleading by the media for a political candidate since Kennedy in the 60s.

(in reply to rulemylife)
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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 12:23:36 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
While I haven't seen the news today, were these "breaking news reports" on Fox by any chance?
It always tickles me to see the way that FOX is disparaged by the same people who so staunchly defend ABC, CBS, NBC as being "neutral" while the Pugh Report and the Washington Post---both liberal organizations---admit that they have not seen such cheerleading by the media for a political candidate since Kennedy in the 60s.

CD,
A basic premise of the apologists; if you can't defend the actions, facts, and issues - condemn the source.

For instance, seen anyone tackle this question yet?
 
Since President Obama claims not to have know this Bonus provision was contained in the stimulus package he signed; was/is President Obama of the same level of intelligence as his predecessor, or is he just lying?

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 3/19/2009 12:24:21 PM >

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 12:48:40 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Once you have the totals, which I bet are relatively equal, you could ask say McCain about it. 

You'd be wrong both in number and dollar. You quoted the source of the answer you seek. Would it be too much to expect for you to have referenced it?

Click and learn:  FOLLOW THE MONEY


PS - Senator McCain was #3 $58,499, Senator Clinton, #4 $37,965. In betting parlance, that's known as hedging your bet. One of them had to sign off on the Bill. Dodd being #2, a scant $432 less than Obama; had to write in the exclusionary language. But of course, the 'crime' is perceived as getting caught, not the acceptance of the money. Although it sure is fun watching them squirm while trying to distance themselves from that reality. Almost as fun as watching the Obamite 'faithful'. 


I was just being polite in pointing out that if we could ascertain the total amount of money each party received from AIG it would be interesting.   I read Follow The Money and if you are saying those totals show the total amount of money each person/party actually received from AIG I have had my chuckle for today; naive for both parties.  Look into the corporations that don't report.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 87
RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 12:56:21 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
While I haven't seen the news today, were these "breaking news reports" on Fox by any chance?
It always tickles me to see the way that FOX is disparaged by the same people who so staunchly defend ABC, CBS, NBC as being "neutral" while the Pugh Report and the Washington Post---both liberal organizations---admit that they have not seen such cheerleading by the media for a political candidate since Kennedy in the 60s.

CD,
A basic premise of the apologists; if you can't defend the actions, facts, and issues - condemn the source.

For instance, seen anyone tackle this question yet?
 
Since President Obama claims not to have know this Bonus provision was contained in the stimulus package he signed; was/is President Obama of the same level of intelligence as his predecessor, or is he just lying?
Yanno Merc...I HAVEN'T seen anyone tackle that question yet.  And I wonder...since he signed onto it when he was a Senator also, was he not aware of the provisions then?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 88
RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 1:00:07 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Once you have the totals, which I bet are relatively equal, you could ask say McCain about it. 

You'd be wrong both in number and dollar. You quoted the source of the answer you seek. Would it be too much to expect for you to have referenced it?

Click and learn:  FOLLOW THE MONEY


PS - Senator McCain was #3 $58,499, Senator Clinton, #4 $37,965. In betting parlance, that's known as hedging your bet. One of them had to sign off on the Bill. Dodd being #2, a scant $432 less than Obama; had to write in the exclusionary language. But of course, the 'crime' is perceived as getting caught, not the acceptance of the money. Although it sure is fun watching them squirm while trying to distance themselves from that reality. Almost as fun as watching the Obamite 'faithful'. 


If you look historically the political contributions of AIG have been pretty much straight down the middle.  If you are thinking that there is some sort of deception then you would have to know exactly when the contributions were made. I can only imagine it was well before  the shit hit the fan.  So why would anyone squirm?  



_____________________________



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 1:03:28 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

Once you have the totals, which I bet are relatively equal, you could ask say McCain about it. 

You'd be wrong both in number and dollar. You quoted the source of the answer you seek. Would it be too much to expect for you to have referenced it?

Click and learn:  FOLLOW THE MONEY


PS - Senator McCain was #3 $58,499, Senator Clinton, #4 $37,965. In betting parlance, that's known as hedging your bet. One of them had to sign off on the Bill. Dodd being #2, a scant $432 less than Obama; had to write in the exclusionary language. But of course, the 'crime' is perceived as getting caught, not the acceptance of the money. Although it sure is fun watching them squirm while trying to distance themselves from that reality. Almost as fun as watching the Obamite 'faithful'. 


I was just being polite in pointing out that if we could ascertain the total amount of money each party received from AIG it would be interesting.   I read Follow The Money and if you are saying those totals show the total amount of money each person/party actually received from AIG I have had my chuckle for today; naive for both parties.  Look into the corporations that don't report.



The democratic house just passed a taxation of the AIG type bonuses.  87 republicans opposed it with Boehner criticizing every one democratic.  Which way do republicans want it.  They scream about the bonuses but scream about this bill although probably symbolic.  They scream about it but accuse Biden of heresy when he wants to throw these clowns in jail and get the money back.  And do not say it is not legal.  What is legal depends on who says it is legal; the Cheney method.

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 3/19/2009 1:19:03 PM >

(in reply to Lorr47)
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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 1:03:42 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Who really gives a shit about these bonuses? 

Again:.....1 billion dollars is equal to 1,000 million dollars...

It is the equivalent of giving someone $1,700.00 and getting your undies in a twist over how $1.65 was spent.

Let's keep the focus on the 175 billion dollars...Where it belongs.

_____________________________



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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 1:12:16 PM   
shannie


Posts: 200
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Maybe while he's entertaining us tonight on Jay Leno, Jay can quote him and ask; "Mr. President, how to you justify not knowing that AIG was capable of issuing these contractual payouts while authorizing payment of $30 Billion in tax dollars to this company last week? Why isn't that just as outrageous?"


Yes, because the same administration and legislators (including the Republicans in Congress) were perfectly capable of demanding, as a condition of getting bailout money, that auto manufacturers renegotiate their contracts with unions. 

They all knew that these bonuses would happen, because they happened with the first bailout.  The could have made AIG renegotiate contracts with executives as a condition of giving them public money.

They knew how to prevent this -- they didn't want to.  None of them.

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 92
RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 1:16:34 PM   
shannie


Posts: 200
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Who really gives a shit about these bonuses? 

Again:.....1 billion dollars is equal to 1,000 million dollars...

It is the equivalent of giving someone $1,700.00 and getting your undies in a twist over how $1.65 was spent.

Let's keep the focus on the 175 billion dollars...Where it belongs.


You're absolutely right about this. All this fake outrage, and the prompt action by our representatives! (who orchestrated the bonuses in the first place) is just to keep our attention off the 175 billion.  It's like arguing, as the pirates carry off every single thing of value, about how they distribute it amongst themselves.

(in reply to domiguy)
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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 1:20:36 PM   
Lorr47


Posts: 862
Joined: 3/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Who really gives a shit about these bonuses? 

Again:.....1 billion dollars is equal to 1,000 million dollars...

It is the equivalent of giving someone $1,700.00 and getting your undies in a twist over how $1.65 was spent.

Let's keep the focus on the 175 billion dollars...Where it belongs.


You are right.  However what is happening to the 175 billion?

< Message edited by Lorr47 -- 3/19/2009 1:21:01 PM >

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 94
RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 1:32:13 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Good question...If the companies emerge from financial disaster the gov't might actually stand to make a profit...If they fall into bankruptcy the gov't stands in line with the rest of creditors eager to receive pennies on the dollar.

Pretty simple really. 

God, wouldn't it have been interesting to see what would have been the outcome if AIG would have been allowed to fail?

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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 1:38:48 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

While I haven't seen the news today, were these "breaking news reports" on Fox by any chance?
It always tickles me to see the way that FOX is disparaged by the same people who so staunchly defend ABC, CBS, NBC as being "neutral" while the Pugh Report and the Washington Post---both liberal organizations---admit that they have not seen such cheerleading by the media for a political candidate since Kennedy in the 60s.


Oh come on!

Do you remember seeing an endless stream of blatant Bush-bashing on those networks during his Presidency?

Turn on Fox any time of the day or night and you are treated to a never-ending barrage of How Obama is a Socialist and why the stimulus package will fail. 

So it's not surprising to hear the same things being parroted here by those who rely on Fox as their primary news source.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
Profile   Post #: 96
RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 1:39:55 PM   
shannie


Posts: 200
Joined: 1/26/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Since President Obama claims not to have know this Bonus provision was contained in the stimulus package he signed; was/is President Obama of the same level of intelligence as his predecessor, or is he just lying?
Yanno Merc...I HAVEN'T seen anyone tackle that question yet.  And I wonder...since he signed onto it when he was a Senator also, was he not aware of the provisions then?


And yet, every time a citizen gets a scant welfare check, an investigation (of assets, other public benefits received, income, etc.) is conducted, and everything is looked at under a microscope -- and, by God, if they got ten dollars they weren't supposed to get, they're dragged into a criminal court by the scruff of their necks.

Our legislators know how to be cautious with the money they dole out, and they know how to attach all kinds of conditions to it, and they know how to create all kind of policing mechanisms to enforce conditions.  But they didn't want to.  And every one of them that voted for this "stimulus package" -- without screaming for conditions (renogotiated contracts for executives, among a thousand other things) is complicit.

(in reply to CreativeDominant)
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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 1:43:52 PM   
Lorr47


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Good question...If the companies emerge from financial disaster the gov't might actually stand to make a profit...If they fall into bankruptcy the gov't stands in line with the rest of creditors eager to receive pennies on the dollar.

Pretty simple really. 

God, wouldn't it have been interesting to see what would have been the outcome if AIG would have been allowed to fail?


The last three "talking heads" I listened to said that it is very possible that the taxpayers will probably come out ahead in regard to the banking bailout.  However, to a man they portray AIG as a black hole from which nothing will ever be returned and which is being kept afloat because of the damage it would do at this time if it imploded.  When both liberal and conservative economists agree about AIG, I get worried.

(in reply to domiguy)
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RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 1:48:01 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

For instance, seen anyone tackle this question yet?
 
Since President Obama claims not to have know this Bonus provision was contained in the stimulus package he signed; was/is President Obama of the same level of intelligence as his predecessor, or is he just lying?


I would love to tackle this.

To begin, we do remember that the AIG bailout was BUSH and Paulson, right?

Now I understand additional funds were given to them after Obama took office but what exactly does the stimulus package have to do with the Bush bailouts and what "bonus provision" do you keep referring to?

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 99
RE: Your tax dollars at work - 3/19/2009 1:48:49 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

The democratic house just passed a taxation of the AIG type bonuses.  87 republicans opposed it with Boehner criticizing every one democratic.  Which way do republicans want it.  They scream about the bonuses but scream about this bill although probably symbolic.  They scream about it but accuse Biden of heresy when he wants to throw these clowns in jail and get the money back.  And do not say it is not legal.  What is legal depends on who says it is legal.


Keeping up the distraction politics and keeping the discussion focused on this non-issue is better than having citizens realize that the entire show we've been seeing is nothing but a charade.

Why stop with these executive bonuses? Why not vote on a 90% tax rate for all the other people that got 'paid back' by the Administration and Congress? Dems & Reps if its necessary for that to be said. ALL of the bail out money spent on rewarding the failure of AIG went out to pay someone who did something just as stupid as these executive bonuses. The beneficiaries are the very source of the under collateralized mortgage loans. They are the same people who made Billions by marketing 'Zero DP', 'No Credit Check', and 'qualified' non-qualifying borrowers. AIG 'insured' their risk on the behest of Senator Frank and under the regulatory scrutiny of Senator Dodd. These 'executives' are nothing more than 'salesmen' selling a product. The bonus was their commission. You don't get to selectively payout the claims while ignoring the salesmen who sold the policy which generated the claim. At least you didn't in a era where Civil Contract Law was not being created on the fly. Great precedent, again reducing the confidence in the private sector for this Administration's policies. Creating worry that any investment may be subject to the next whim of Congress and public opinion. The method to prevent this was in place - let them fail. The 'crisis' mentality of "we've GOT to do SOMETHING!" generated this result.

Again, to those that detest the idea of Corporate Welfare, why is this most detestable form of rewarding failure welfare being accepted as part of an overall solution to the economic conditions that exist? Better yet - why are you supporting the people who are paying it out? As much as there is no distinction between the actions of political parties, the distinction between the party supporters is clear. If Corporate Welfare is coming from a Democratic source - it MUST be supported and good. Change the party label on the administration and change the majority label represented by Congress and would there be this same level of universal support and rationalization from the same sources?  The entire 'bail-out' including AIG is nothing but corporate welfare without any plan being provided for individual or private sector job growth. But because of the source - it's going to work if only given time. WOW!

What can I say? Obviously it works for most.

What a GREAT use of time - voting on taxing bonuses that only a few weeks they approved, specifically adding language to exempt any special tax consideration. And the crowd goes wild...

What next - voting yesterday's weather? Who knows, maybe this will start a trend. Maybe all those who 'voted' for the wrong team in their 'March Madness' brackets can get their money back by a majority voting that the winner has to use 90% of their winnings to throw a party for all the participants. 

(in reply to Lorr47)
Profile   Post #: 100
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