Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (Full Version)

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Termyn8or -> Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/21/2009 9:05:27 PM)

Native Americans, I know a few. One is into his heritage and goes to the powows or whatever. He says the locoweed and peyote is a thing of the past but there are still some things. He has described what it takes to get feathers. In most cases it is something like tree branches tied to you and you have to dance or somehow find a way to make them snap off, and all the time they are digging into your skin. Blood is common.

I'm sure the tests were more interesting in the past, just like anything. But how many religions had tests before someone could "get their feathers" so to speak ? A form of sufferage actually no ? I am sure this has existed in many forms, more than I could ever explore, but there are all sorts of things. For example alot of people don't know that in some parts of the world, something akin to FGM was taking place. It involved males ! There was an incision made in the penis and as a result he had to sit down to urinate afterward. But this was the mark of manhood ! I wasn't even kinky when I read this, what I read was about males born with a defect that was similar to the results of the mutilation. Is it possible that in that society one was born with that defect and became a leader ? Then every male wanted to be like him ? I am not comparing this to FGM, for a couple of reasons. First of all it is voluntary, even though peer pressure might've been a big factor, FGM is said to be practiced at a very young age, this is not.

This is totally unmitigated genital mutilation, so how strong is the allure of peer pressure ? So in that respect, can religion be classified as organized, or possibly collective peer pressure ?

I submit that humans' needs to congregate is as strong as that of animals. We may have more control over it but I can show you evidence if I had a camera in a helicopter. Look at people driving on the highway. When it is not congested they still gravitate towards one another, I see this as herd mentality and I will expound. They see the cop car as a threat. There is one cop car, and he may be bound and determined to give someone a ticket. So actually the logical conclusion is to group together and give him alot of choices. Once he is "eating" his victim others can just move on. If you are the one singled out, you pay a fine and are late to your destination, that's if you're lucky and all your "papers" are in order. He is seen as a threat, that is the reaction.

I am also quite sure that most do not do this conciously, that it is bred from deep in the mind. If not, logic should take over and say that it is illogical, when you have all this space, to drive so closely to the other vehicles.

To satisfy the title of the thread though, I will state that I could not care any less about condoms anywhere. People should have self contrtol and if not, and they perish because of it, so be it. As wrong as the Pope is, because applying ancient standards to modern times is ludicrous, maybe he is right. Let them extinguish themselves.

Right for the wrong reasons. I don't know about you, but I actually enjoy a bit of irony.

How far are we really from the aminal kingdom ? When you go spotlight deer, which one led them there ? The one with the most antlers ?

In other words the biggest bonehead ? Do you see the paralell in human society ?

T




Aylee -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/21/2009 9:16:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
A form of sufferage actually no ?


A form of prayer?  Sure.  A way of voting?  No. 

And it is "suffrage." 




Owner59 -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 5:08:35 AM)

gross....disgusting....aweful




FullCircle -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 5:34:27 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
I submit that humans' needs to congregate is as strong as that of animals. We may have more control over it but I can show you evidence if I had a camera in a helicopter. Look at people driving on the highway. When it is not congested they still gravitate towards one another, I see this as herd mentality and I will expound. They see the cop car as a threat. There is one cop car, and he may be bound and determined to give someone a ticket. So actually the logical conclusion is to group together and give him alot of choices. Once he is "eating" his victim others can just move on. If you are the one singled out, you pay a fine and are late to your destination, that's if you're lucky and all your "papers" are in order. He is seen as a threat, that is the reaction.

That is the funniest paragraph but I think it has more to do with everyone slowing down to the actual speed limit because they see the cop is present. If the police car is going along at the actual legal speed limit of the road then the others have to make sure they creep away from that cop as slow as possible because shooting past the cop car at a high rate of knots would raise alarm bells.
 
All this really indicates is a few people can't resist the urge to break the speed limit. I don't see them as wildebeest herding together because there is safety in numbers. In actual fact herding together is the most stupid thing a wildebeest can do, has a lion ever been scared of a herd? All it does is raise the odds of a successful kill. If you’ve just robbed a bank and are running away from the police the best thing to do is split up in different directions, they all get caught though because they can’t trust one another with the loot.




YoursMistress -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 6:29:44 AM)

I think that the difference (regarding condoms, not the wildebeast or mutilated penis thingy) is that without restraint, other nations' population growth put pressure on the use of resources, giving us an incentive to help others find that restraint.  Competing with this is the notion that rapidly growing populations provide new markets for goods and services as well as human resources (low cost labor).  What we do ought to be driven by conscious informed decisions.   

yours




Lynnxz -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 9:25:48 AM)

All I can say is that you clearly have no f**king idea how bad the epidemic is in Africa.








Termyn8or -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 1:37:23 PM)

Lyn, do you mean the epidemic of aids or the epidemic of overpopulation and famine ?

People of a certain mindset will probably hate me after I explain this.

Let them die.

What is the premise that got to the mindset that they cannot be allowed to die ? Are you saying that they were living in a high rise driving a Benz up until last week and through absolutely no fault of their own everything collapsed ? Like Chris Rock said "Crack is destroying the ghetto ? What everybody had boats and new cars until crack came and dried ir all up ?". Seriously, these people can find NOTHING better to do than fuck ?

These conditions just started, last month they were all engineers and statesmen, doctors and such ? That is bullshit. They have been on TV for decades begging for money, the twelve dollar a month people. This shit did not start yesterday. I chose not to have kids because of the responsibility, because I am a relatively responsible person. I do not make alot of money, but I make it fast, I could easily make a hundred grand a year, but kids are a different thing.

I saw on TV someone LITERALLY cooking dirt (clay I think) to feed their family. Were things so good a scant few years ago that they felt confident in their ability to effectively raise a family, but something happened all the sudden ? I think not.

If you want good chicken soup you must take the scum off the top before adding the vegetables. That is a close enough analogy for now. A few years ago a rich guy was quoted saying that he favored an 80% reduction in world population, and I must agree. Imagine how things would be. Every house would come with acreage for cheap, there would not be such a hard demand on the world's resources that wars are fought over them. There would be fewer traffic jams, jobs would outnumber people. Give that a little thought as the seed of hate of the PC crowd invades what could have been a good mind, a terrible thing to waste.

Survival of the fittest ? I guess so, and if I myself am not fit then I should die. I have no problem living by the rules I would propose for others.

Just hate me for what I am, not some monstrous creature concocted in your mind. My beliefs are real, and do not change easily. Alot of people don't like what I guess would be termed extreme pragmatism. I think that every abortion should come with a free tubal ligation. I think people with birth defects should be cared for, but should not reproduce. I know a guy who wanted kids in the worst way but never persued it because he had an inherited disease - Huntington's. That is a responsible person. I also think that murderers and rapists should be executed in public, not as a dterrent, but so everyone can see them beg for their life and pray to their God so we all know what kind of cowardly piece of shit they are. I was fully in favor of the caning of that younger guy in Singapore for vandalism. What else are you going to do ? Fine him so Mommy and Daddy can send the money, or keep him a few months in jail in a foreign country ? Fuck it, whip his ass and see if he does it again. Takes alot less time and taxpayer dollars.

Hate me, but hate me for what I am. I see myself as being not brainwashed with this lovey dovey mamby pamby shit, this is the real world folks, and yes when you die it is for real. But what of it ? Everybody dies, it's just a matter of when.

So let them and their seven offspring die of starvation, let others kill each other with sticks and stones, and let anyone who wants to kill themselves with drugs or whatever. Get it through your head, we have PLENTY of people. The last thing we need is more. If you want life, take an interest in it, learn and become productive. In this context I agree with the old axiom - If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

T




Lynnxz -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 1:48:27 PM)

'A Modest Proposal' anyone?

Term, your outlook is arrogant, and ignorant. It isn't 'survival of the fittest', this isn't some crap animal planet show. It's Survival of the Richest, survival of the one born at the right place, and the right time. The kid born in the US to the laziest welfare grubbing scum in this country, has more opportunity and help than a child born in some of these countries in Africa will ever have.





FullCircle -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 1:49:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or
Seriously, these people can find NOTHING better to do than fuck ?

You don't have to fuck anyone to get HIV. I don't believe in survival of the fittest when applied to human beings because that would mean not helping premature babies that you could easily save with a bit of thought and care.
 
You forget we are humans not animals and what separates us as such is this thing called compassion and we can't turn it off. It was given to us for a reason. Mantra's such as survival of the fittest don't mean shit when you can see suffering and know you can do something to stop it.





Termyn8or -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 2:12:02 PM)

Not thick enough on the hate people. I consider it like hot sauce.

No opporttunities ? Let's fuck.
No money ? Let's fuck.
No food ? Let's fuck.

Other ways to get aids, sure, but without fucking alot of people would never have been born. How about that ?

OK for the bleeding hearts who think life is so precious that we have to be backed into a corner, afforded a very few square feet in which to exist because there is no overpopulation, let me propose this : A new type of condom that does not prevent pregnancy but does prevent the spread of aids in that manner. What would your beloved Pope say to that ? What would you say to that ?

More people, bring them on, hell I could fit about 20 useless people in my house (I think I have done that on accasion). I have no right to all this palatial space here. My livingroom is 12' X 13' , hell there could be about twelve people sleeping here if I get rid of all these guitars and piano.

That is what I am talking about, QUALITY vs QUANTITY of life. Even if my views go against the whole of humanity, I still believe I am right, and I haven't seen any cogent argument that would challenge that in any significant way. I believe that is because an opposing point of view is not logical. Period.

T




UPSG -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 5:47:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz

'A Modest Proposal' anyone?

Term, your outlook is arrogant, and ignorant. It isn't 'survival of the fittest', this isn't some crap animal planet show. It's Survival of the Richest, survival of the one born at the right place, and the right time. The kid born in the US to the laziest welfare grubbing scum in this country, has more opportunity and help than a child born in some of these countries in Africa will ever have.


I have to agree with some of the sentiment in your post, Lyn.

Full, Homo sapien sapiens, or that is to say humans, are animals. Within the half art, half science of taxonomy - Domain; Kingdom; Phylum; Class; Order; Family; Genus; Species - we fall under Kingdom: Animalia (animal). We modern humans are a subspecies of Homo sapiens. Hence, Homo sapien sapien, or Wise thinking thinking man.

Term, the continent of Africa - as a whole - has many problems and challenges (so does the continent of America by the way). I agree with those that make the proposition that one of continental Africa's major source of problems is having to many competing nation-states. There are something like 50 or more nation states on the continent of Africa. Now let me ask you, how well do you think each state on the mainland of the U.S. would do if they each were their own nation-state?

Every Governor of every state in the Union is in fact a President of his territorial state. These states are united under a federal Presidency residing in the Federal District of Columbia. The United States didn't always, but we do today, have a common currency backed by the Federal Government. This is one essential element of both U.S. security and prosperity in relation to the nation-states of Canada and Mexico which boarder it north and south.

Now, I'm going to say this politely, even in light of your rather hard-core stereotypes of continental Africa (which is home to some better hospitals than some Eastern European nation-states), a large and diverse place where not everyone is starving. Some Africans, no doubt, eat better than some Americans. That is, one has to bear in mind that per capita income can often reflect decades of inflation, if it is keeping up with inflation (rise in average cost of goods). So, Americans earn more money but that must be balanced with the cost of goods in the U.S. (as Carlos Ghosn, the Lebanese Brazilian has pointed out in his best selling book, food is phenomenally more expensive in Tokyo than it is in Rio de Janeiro). But what I wanted to say to you is this: your concept of evolution is lacking.

The theory of evolution is actually more complicated than most people think. Species can prove "fit" by cooperation. Competition within a sepecies against one another is called intraspecific competition. Competition among members of different species is interspecific competition.

Now, you are correct in your inference that behaviors work within evolution toward or against the success of a species or community of species. But like I said, that is applicable to cooperation also. And natural selection is about genetic, inherited traits, not about wearing condoms.

Also, the Pope is an extremely well educated man. He is far better educated than most Americans. The United States is the richest nation on earth and industrially adavanced, yet only 30% of its adult population 25 and older have a bachelor degree or better. That means 70% of adults in the United States age 25 and older don't have a bachelor degree. The numbers become smaller the further you climb the scale of education. And when you look at different cities some are above or below the national average. In the city of Milwaukee I think only about 18% or so of the population age 25 and older has a bachelor degree or better. And no this can't be blamed on Black-American males. Black-America with the combines sexes only make up roughly 13% of the U.S. population, and Black-American males make up roughly half of that. So, 30% is greater than that. The Pope is way above the mean (average) in the U.S. and the world for that matter.

Food wise, agricultural science has kept up with population growth in the world. You don't hear of great famines sweeping across India today even though they have more people than they did many years ago. Brazil and the United States feeds most the world - not by charity - by exporting food to the world for profit. It's called civilized economy. You could knock the world population down in half and famine could still sweep much of the globe if people survived as subsitance farmers like many in Ethiopia do (a place not surprising struck with sporadic famines). The Irish potatoe famine is an example of this. People in New York City don't live subject to the good will of mother nature feeding them by "blessing" their crops for the season. New Yorkers buy food.



As far as the spread of disease, your understanding of this is dated. We live in a global world (how did HIV arrive in the U.S.?), where drug resistant TB is already in Russia. I would suggest you read this woman's book "Betrayal of Trust" it might enlighten you about the new responsibilities of nation states in a global community: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laurie_Garrett




Nairod -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 6:26:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

More people, bring them on, hell I could fit about 20 useless people in my house (I think I have done that on accasion). I have no right to all this palatial space here. My livingroom is 12' X 13' , hell there could be about twelve people sleeping here if I get rid of all these guitars and piano.
T


I'm not clear whether you're trying to show off or trying to prove your poverty credentials; some of us will see your living room as cramped but there'll be others who are impressed. Which type of fuckwit reaction were you aiming for?





MarsBonfire -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 8:39:24 PM)

Man, I leave for a few days, and the trolls take over...

What's up, Termy? Some poor person come over and piss in your oatmel, so now you're railing for their extermination? Funny, isn't it, that the GOP followers on here, the supposed "conservative christians" are the ones also advocating genocide? Gosh, that's certainly loving thy neighbor as thyself, huh? Just keep tippy-tapping away with this crap as long as you like, T, because every sentance you post just makes the opposition's stance that much more obviously the correct one.




YoursMistress -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 11:29:06 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lynnxz
All I can say is that you clearly have no f**king idea how bad the epidemic is in Africa.


My mistake, I was taking a very narrow view of the condom issue. 




UPSG -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/22/2009 11:36:12 PM)

I wrote.

quote:

Black-America with the combines sexes only make up roughly 13% of the U.S. population, and Black-American males make up roughly half of that. So, 30% is greater than that.


And I meant to say 70%. That is... 70% is greater than 6.5%.




WyldHrt -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/23/2009 1:02:21 AM)

As per usual, Termy, your arguments show your ignorance. [8|]




VanessaChaland -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/23/2009 2:35:23 AM)

Many people "congregate" out on the open spaces of a highway because they are shallow and stupid and are in a hurry to pass their fellow motorists so satisfy their "Me First!!!" mentality.

Regarding Africa (and many other parts of the world) many of these poor women are not having their problems, extra kids, getting STDs and dying because they are sluts, its called RAPE!!

I mean its not like their plight is not all over every news paper and TV news and has been for decades.




slaveboyforyou -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/23/2009 2:40:57 AM)

quote:

Funny, isn't it, that the GOP followers on here, the supposed "conservative christians" are the ones also advocating genocide? Gosh, that's certainly loving thy neighbor as thyself, huh? Just keep tippy-tapping away with this crap as long as you like, T, because every sentance you post just makes the opposition's stance that much more obviously the correct one


Termyn8or is a conservative Christian?  Mars (bipolarber), it's funny that you attempt to turn every discussion into a "Republicans are evil" argument.  I haven't seen one thing in this thread that has to do with conservatives.  But you're determined to turn it into that, aren't you?




VanessaChaland -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/23/2009 3:15:56 AM)

Perhaps he has in mind the last 8 years of Bush's policy on no condoms without abstinence teachings? Abstinence, that which is a pipe dream of the totally illogical religious right, which has not worked as long as any human being has walked this planet, (with the exception of threat of torture and death, you know like parts of Africa, Saudi etc).

Seriously slaveboy, the far right has a lot of responsibility for the worlds problems after the last 8 years of Bush-Bull-Shit. Its hard for some of us to deny that and just "get over it". From what I can see, right now at this point in history (and the last 8 years, plus a good part of Reagan, oh and G. H. Bush) yea they are evil. So are most Dems, but currently they are the lesser of the two evils. :)
The few (GOP) that have balls and some scruples, Chuck Hagel, Garry Johnson (Former Gov)etc,  have given up and/or were run out of office by the "sheep" and mindless morons that do nothing and did nothing but kiss Bush's ass and suck up to the 'fundies'. :)

I mean really, they are beyond pathetic and should be scorned and mocked.

quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Funny, isn't it, that the GOP followers on here, the supposed "conservative christians" are the ones also advocating genocide? Gosh, that's certainly loving thy neighbor as thyself, huh? Just keep tippy-tapping away with this crap as long as you like, T, because every sentance you post just makes the opposition's stance that much more obviously the correct one


Termyn8or is a conservative Christian?  Mars (bipolarber), it's funny that you attempt to turn every discussion into a "Republicans are evil" argument.  I haven't seen one thing in this thread that has to do with conservatives.  But you're determined to turn it into that, aren't you?




WinsomeDefiance -> RE: Condoms in Africa, best you can do ? (3/23/2009 3:26:31 AM)

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