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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/30/2009 5:50:43 PM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

no, i gave you proof the posibility exists.. and proof that other slaves are trafficing for their owners knowing the girls are going to be killed.  its your stubborn nature that refuses to see the actuallity and possibilities that could come from these situations.  stay ignorant, i heard its blissful... until your picked up.


Did i once say the possibility didn't exist? 
 
Now please answer my question where did i once insinuate my way was the only way? 
And so i know, my way was the only way to do what? 
Picked up? Picked up for what?

< Message edited by InTonguesslut -- 3/30/2009 5:52:06 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 241
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/30/2009 6:07:27 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

i dont see them as in the minority.  in fact, according to statistics, 700,000.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/725805/sex_slavery_in_america.html?cat=17

you say the probability for you to kill anyone or cut off an appendage is minimal to non-extistent.  can you be so sure thats the same for these others?


It's a horror actually.  But those girls are unwilling victims, tortured, brainwashed, beaten-down mentally etc.  I think you are comparing apples to oranges here.  I don't think we'd see any of those victims on a message board defending their relationships and talking about how they have chosen this type of relationship with a trusted partner.

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Profile   Post #: 242
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/30/2009 6:09:48 PM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

i dont see them as in the minority.  in fact, according to statistics, 700,000.

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/725805/sex_slavery_in_america.html?cat=17

you say the probability for you to kill anyone or cut off an appendage is minimal to non-extistent.  can you be so sure thats the same for these others?


It's a horror actually.  But those girls are unwilling victims, tortured, brainwashed, beaten-down mentally etc.  I think you are comparing apples to oranges here.  I don't think we'd see any of those victims on a message board defending their relationships and talking about how they have chosen this type of relationship with a trusted partner.



Thank you Marie, couldn't see the woods for the trees and get that out myself

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 243
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/30/2009 9:20:28 PM   
Jeptha


Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ShaktiSama
....The increased risk of tissue damage to the receiver of penetrative acts alone is enough to increase risk significantly. ...

....The upshot of the matter is simply this: there is a very wide reach between the lowest possible risk of the person who has one sexual partner in as lifetime versus the maximum risk of the human waste dump who has unprotected sex with multiple unscreened partners constantly. The submissive being "hired out" is far too often the latter. Period. End of story.
I agree with some of your points; the increased risk of tissue damage is real - if one engages in activities where that can occur. That those activities will be engaged in is a bit of a presumption on your part, though.
Also ~ the risk factor and/or character of strangers that engage in multiple sexual liaisons of whatever type...could be iffy, certainly.

It is important to consider the risks of activities and to know and screen your partners. I agree there.

My problem is more with the broad brush that you use in your portrayal of anyone who isn't engaged in strict monogamy (they seem to me to be on the red end of your continuum, that I've highlighted above), and what it is that they actually do.

Now - as far as the "hired out" submissive goes, that I do not presume to know about. However, I do have some experience with a variety of extra-monogamous activities (no, that's not a reference to cheating) that incorporate D/s, and they have been nothing like you portray.

I could agree with you on one of your larger points, too, though; that someone new to this should feel empowered to create the kind of relationship they would like and not feel pressured to do unsafe stuff.

< Message edited by Jeptha -- 3/30/2009 9:23:32 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 244
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/30/2009 11:07:22 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline 		no, i agree, marie.  they probably wouldnt.  i was asked for proof that they existed.  i gave that proof.  someone couldnt see the trees for the forest, i guess.

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Profile   Post #: 245
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 3:02:41 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

Of course that power has to be given to the "M" but so few as they come into the path really understand the baisics and protocols. thus they fall victim to wanabees and worse.


I think what you're failing to understand here Cp is that there will never be a universal agreement on what the 'basics' or 'protocol' is. everyone has differing opinions, versions of these things so there will never be an agreement of what is right and wrong.
Just like there will never be universal agreement on the slave vs sub debate, no limits vs limits, hiring out vs non-hiring out, whats bratting and whats not, maoschists more valued than non-masochists etc etc. You could go on forever with these lists.
at some point the argument has to stop or go round in never ending circles. At some point it has to be accepted that everyones opinions and views are different and that there probably is no right or wrong, just what is right or wrong for each of us as individuals.


Intongues,

Perhaps your correct, but it is just my nature to attempt to bring order to chaos!

CP


And mine to bring chaos where order reigns


InTongues,

Chuckles, and I bet you have more fun at it than I do.

CP

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Profile   Post #: 246
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 6:14:17 AM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

no, i agree, marie.  they probably wouldnt.  i was asked for proof that they existed.  i gave that proof.  someone couldnt see the trees for the forest, i guess.

 
Actually i asked for proof of where the sub and slaves are that murder or cut off their own limbs that are in consensual no limit relationships?
You changed the goal posts to fit what 'proof' you could find.

_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

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Profile   Post #: 247
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 6:15:59 AM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

Of course that power has to be given to the "M" but so few as they come into the path really understand the baisics and protocols. thus they fall victim to wanabees and worse.


I think what you're failing to understand here Cp is that there will never be a universal agreement on what the 'basics' or 'protocol' is. everyone has differing opinions, versions of these things so there will never be an agreement of what is right and wrong.
Just like there will never be universal agreement on the slave vs sub debate, no limits vs limits, hiring out vs non-hiring out, whats bratting and whats not, maoschists more valued than non-masochists etc etc. You could go on forever with these lists.
at some point the argument has to stop or go round in never ending circles. At some point it has to be accepted that everyones opinions and views are different and that there probably is no right or wrong, just what is right or wrong for each of us as individuals.


Intongues,

Perhaps your correct, but it is just my nature to attempt to bring order to chaos!

CP


And mine to bring chaos where order reigns


InTongues,

Chuckles, and I bet you have more fun at it than I do.

CP


Welllllllllllll it does amuse me that all i have to do is open my mouth and speak, or turn on my lap top and type about how i see things to cause chaos.

_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

(in reply to CelticPrince)
Profile   Post #: 248
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 8:38:58 AM   
CelticPrince


Posts: 3613
Joined: 4/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

ORIGINAL: CelticPrince

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

Of course that power has to be given to the "M" but so few as they come into the path really understand the baisics and protocols. thus they fall victim to wanabees and worse.


I think what you're failing to understand here Cp is that there will never be a universal agreement on what the 'basics' or 'protocol' is. everyone has differing opinions, versions of these things so there will never be an agreement of what is right and wrong.
Just like there will never be universal agreement on the slave vs sub debate, no limits vs limits, hiring out vs non-hiring out, whats bratting and whats not, maoschists more valued than non-masochists etc etc. You could go on forever with these lists.
at some point the argument has to stop or go round in never ending circles. At some point it has to be accepted that everyones opinions and views are different and that there probably is no right or wrong, just what is right or wrong for each of us as individuals.


Intongues,

Perhaps your correct, but it is just my nature to attempt to bring order to chaos!

CP


And mine to bring chaos where order reigns


InTongues,

Chuckles, and I bet you have more fun at it than I do.

CP


Welllllllllllll it does amuse me that all i have to do is open my mouth and speak, or turn on my lap top and type about how i see things to cause chaos.


ITS,

Well sometimes an inate talent is just not to be denied.

CP

(in reply to InTonguesslut)
Profile   Post #: 249
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 9:23:40 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		Is it possible thay you can smoke cigarettes all of your life and die at the ripe old age of 99 without developing a single illness that is atttributed to smoking cigs?  Of course it is.   By your logic everyone who smokes should have no fear of ever becoming sick.

All I am saying is that when you find a person that states they have "no-limits" there is an extreme chance that there is a pile of abuse and neglect in their past.  End of story.

Hard to follow isn't it?  But please continue on as to how the majority  "no-limit" subs have reached this plateau based upon a completely healthy outlook. Bullshit!

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Profile   Post #: 250
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 9:35:07 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NormalOutside

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Do I think that there are an inordinate amount of people that have reached this place due to mental or physical trauma or abuse?...You betcha.

Just read the tales of rape, incest and other forms of abuse that show up here regularily. 

What do you say to someone that states they have no limits and will do whatever another asks of them?   Do you ask what happened to you?  Do you want to meet their folks to see where exactly things went astray?

Would anyuone want this for  their own daughter?   There is not a chance in Hell that my daughter would ever end up in this type of a predicamant.  I would instill self worth and confidence.  She would take pride in her ideals and place values upon her mind and her body.

There are two side to this fence. There are plenty of guys out here that are completely incapable of pursuing a meaningful relationship with a woman...So they hide behind the Dom mask.

whatever. Both are equally pathetic.

Strongly disagree. It's strange... you seem like a popular person here, and you seem able to construct a sentence. And yet the words coming out of your mouth are......... ignorant and uneducated, to say the very least. Wow.



Since I am the one typing it is clearly my thought.  Why is it "uneducated" to think that there would be an incredibly higher instance of abuse in the life of a person that states that they will allow their partner to do anything to them?

To ME,  it only makes sense.   There is a correlation between multiple piercings, tatts and abuse....Why not this? 

Why anyone would argue this point is beyond me.

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Profile   Post #: 251
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 10:01:53 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

Since I am the one typing it is clearly my thought.  Why is it "uneducated" to think that there would be an incredibly higher instance of abuse in the life of a person that states that they will allow their partner to do anything to them

Why anyone would argue this point is beyond me.

When they are living it.

"incredibly higher instance" based upon what research?

Because you don't want, or can't earn, the trust necessary, or want the associated responsibility; it doesn't mean the reality does not exist. Ignorance, "uneducated", or perhaps just closeted isolationism; any can apply.

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Profile   Post #: 252
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 10:02:05 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Is it possible thay you can smoke cigarettes all of your life and die at the ripe old age of 99 without developing a single illness that is atttributed to smoking cigs?  Of course it is.   By your logic everyone who smokes should have no fear of ever becoming sick.


This poor logic was deconstructed 2-3 pages ago.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

All I am saying is that when you find a person that states they have "no-limits" there is an extreme chance that there is a pile of abuse and neglect in their past.


1) Define "extreme".
2) Explain if the definition of "extreme" includes 'to a substantially larger occurence percentage than others'.
3) Provide research and analysis (with sample size large enough to account for skewed results) supporting your assertion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

End of story.


No....it would be the end of the story if you could back up your hypotheses with more than imagination.



quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguyHard to follow isn't it?  But please continue on as to how the majority  "no-limit" subs have reached this plateau based upon a completely healthy outlook. Bullshit!


You know...it at least would make marginally logical sense if you were tossing out this conclusion based on anecdotal evidence and personal experience...but I suspect you don't even have those. Just a repulsion for what you think no-limits people are based on how it makes you feel.

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I know they're all insane
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I know that I'm to blame."
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Profile   Post #: 253
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 10:06:12 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

There is a correlation between multiple piercings, tatts and abuse....


Really?

Surely you have rock-solid evidence for that causat.....er...."correlation" as well....right?

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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Profile   Post #: 254
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 10:08:22 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Because you don't want, or can't earn, the trust necessary, or want the associated responsibility; it doesn't mean the reality does not exist. Ignorance, "uneducated", or perhaps just closeted isolationism; any can apply.

Methinks "myopic" is the word you're looking for.





_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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Profile   Post #: 255
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 10:40:33 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		You supply the evidence to refute it.   I could care less.  I know what I know.  Let's just say I am gifted when it comes to matters of common sense.  

You are incapable of seeing the obvious. Remember Merc, you are lazy.  You don't have the time or the energy to deal with a woman that would question your authority.

Anywhooo,  We are discusssing the far end of the range of submission.  To argue that there is not more abuse within "this group" seems rather absurd.  But I am no longer surprised that there are those that are incapable of seeing the Doms through the forest.

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Profile   Post #: 256
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 10:41:51 AM   
ShaktiSama


Posts: 1674
Joined: 8/13/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeptha
My problem is more with the broad brush that you use in your portrayal of anyone who isn't engaged in strict monogamy (they seem to me to be on the red end of your continuum, that I've highlighted above), and what it is that they actually do.


Actually, I think part of the problem is the assumption that I am automatically talking about "anyone who isn't engaged in strict monogamy" when I discuss the fantasies and rhetoric of "hiring out" or gang-banging the "no limits sub".

Again, the problem is definitions.  I refuse to define anyone who observes safe sex procedures as being a "no limits" submissive.  If observing safe sex procedures makes you a "No Limits" sub, then just about every submissive I've ever known was a "no limits" sub--there is absolutely nothing special or different about people who claim the label.

To me, carefully observing safety procedures is not "no limits" behavior by any reasonable definition of the term.  It's just ordinary kinky or slightly risque behavior that is observing the exact same safety/sanity limits that everyone else in a sane, negotiated and bounded relationship is observing.

I have experienced poly relationships myself and have played with more than one person at a time on many occasions.  I would not call those experiences or any of the players present "no limits" precisely because the boundaries were mutually agreed upon, based on the safety and best interests of all concerned.  No one was being ordered or forced to violate their best interest and risk their lives based on someone else's whim.

What continually obscures these issues from my point of view is the simple issue of sanity.  The rhetoric of no-limits submission and no-limits dominance inevitably go to the land of completely abusive, destructive extremes in order to "prove the point".  "My dominant can break my arm if he wants", "If I told my submissive to jump off a cliff, she'd have to do it because she's my slave".  The underlying dynamic that is emphasized is never the depth of mutual trust--it's always just an appeal to brutal authority and mindless obedience, neither of which appeals to me and neither of which is morally or socially defensible in my opinion.









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RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 10:51:38 AM   
heartfeltsub


Posts: 1641
Joined: 11/5/2004
Status: offline 		Am wondering why it is that a discussion of the concept of a "no-limit" slave seems to cause such strong reactions. i was actually thinking of trying to find out what that term means to most people, as i know that there is a variety of definitions of that term, but i didn't want to start another argument about something that will likely never be resolved.

heartfelt

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Profile   Post #: 258
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 11:10:17 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: heartfeltsub

Am wondering why it is that a discussion of the concept of a "no-limit" slave seems to cause such strong reactions. i was actually thinking of trying to find out what that term means to most people, as i know that there is a variety of definitions of that term, but i didn't want to start another argument about something that will likely never be resolved.

heartfelt


If you dare say that the majority of people that would allow another to do anything to them have a higher degree of mental issues than those who would choose not to engage in such a practice you will soon meet the wrath of the subbiest of subs and their well grounded protectors. 

It is totally predictable to understand that out here people will cling to whatever beliefs they hold that will promote their weak stance.  People are so affected by "aotstwd" (all of the shit that we do) that they cling to Ren faires and choose to live on some distant planet in a galaxy far far away.  Anything to escape their reality...Why not "no-limit" slaves?  They fit into this scenario very well

But no because some peole manage to smoke their entire lives and escape the wrath of cancer their can be no correlation.  There is a correlation between lack of self esteem and abuse.   I am confident that "no limit" subs tend to be confident leaders that exude confidence...give me a fucking break!

I say one and one equals two... The naysayers claim "one and one" buys you a flight to Gor.


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Profile   Post #: 259
RE: The Power or " Right" - 3/31/2009 11:17:59 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

you sicken me



**YAWN**  Don't you have something self satisfying to do with your time....Oops, that is probably a hard limit!..lol

Go take a unicorn or a hummer  ride.   Unicorns now come with airbags. 

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