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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 3:02:06 PM

DemonKia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

This is based on the assumption that our thoughts are actual truth. It is an assumption that I find highly flawed. Just because I think something doesn't make it truth, so if I speak something that is false, how can I be honest?

Knight's Kyra

I believe the thinking behind this is that one of the best ways to lie is to withhold pertinent info . . . . .

Best,
The Demon, Kia

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 3:10:22 PM

GotSteel

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I would expect the implementation of radical honesty to be annoying at best and often become downright harmful to those within earshot. For instance I had a neighbor in college who never realized that inner monologue is supposed to go on the inside. This was an issue in class as she'd interrupt lectures with any old thought that came into her head. One time a friend admitted that he was hesitant about asking a certain girl out because he found women rather intimidating and had never been on a date. He weighed over 300lbs at the time. Anyone else would have thought about this for all of one second and realized that his weight was the cause of his trepidation. Instead she immediately blurted out with "are you gay?". Probably the single most self esteem crushing thing a cute blond girl could possibly have said to him in that moment.

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 3:47:16 PM

ShiftedJewel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kyraofMists

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Firstly, Radical Honesty is guided by two basic principles: (1) 100% honesty, & (2) speaking whatever comes into one's head, spontaneously & without filter . .. . . .

This is based on the assumption that our thoughts are actual truth. It is an assumption that I find highly flawed. Just because I think something doesn't make it truth, so if I speak something that is false, how can I be honest?

Knight's Kyra

You are being honest because you spoke exactly what you were thinking, good, bad or indifferent. It isn't about believing what you say is gospel, it's about being honest about what you think.

And for me, I use filters around people with a great deal of authority. Well.... most of the time anyway. Ok, when I think about it. Yes, I've been just as upfront and honest with my bosses.

And as for the little kid scenerio? I would say they are beautiful in their own way, just like the rest of the world. And it would be the truth.

Jewel

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 3:58:20 PM

Rrryker

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I will never be radically honest with the IRS

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 4:09:45 PM

LookieNoNookie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Firstly, Radical Honesty is guided by two basic principles: (1) 100% honesty, & (2) speaking whatever comes into one's head, spontaneously & without filter . .. . . .

Secondly, there's this hysterically funny article in which the author interviews 'the guy' behind the Radical Honesty 'movement', & then the author tries to live a more radically honest life for a week:

http://www.esquire.com/features/honesty0707

Okay, that fun aside, I'm curious how y'all see this notion of Radical Honesty as kinksters, what are your varied opinions of this notion of radical honesty? I'm particularly interested in BDSM folks' take on this, given how important honesty is in WIIWD . .. . .

Do you practice Radical Honesty? Just in your BDSM relationships, or in your vanilla life, also? If you don't, are you interested, or not, in pursuing the idea? Do you think Radical Honesty would enhance the kink world or detract from it? Are you ready to have those around you, everywhere, blurt out whatever they're thinking, all the time?

So, for instance, my parents emphasized honesty quite intensely & I tend to think of myself as living at a pretty crispy-intense level of honesty -- some people can be really uncomfortable with the level of bluntness that I'm comfortable with, & I irregularly get that 'too much info' reaction from others . . .. . But, in the long run greater levels of honesty have tended to serve me, & so Radical Honesty sounds exciting & intriguing to my ears . . . . & it certainly seems like a dynamic that's very consistent with BDSM relationships . .. ... .

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this . . .. . . .

Best,
The Demon, Kia

I hate everything you stand for...and ever will.

(Gawwwwd that felt good).

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 5:02:41 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Okay, that fun aside, I'm curious how y'all see this notion of Radical Honesty as kinksters, what are your varied opinions of this notion of radical honesty? I'm particularly interested in BDSM folks' take on this, given how important honesty is in WIIWD . .. . .

Do you practice Radical Honesty?

Radical honesty says as much about what's outside the box as to what's in it. By which I mean that only a fucked up culture of lying could label honesty as radical in the first place.

Do we practice it... yes and that forms the entire basis of what we have and what we have had for over 5 years. I got lied to priorly just once too often and finally, I mean, finally said enough is enough.

PS To add though: I am always very polite before I tell it like it is... because it is my job to ne polite to Him. It'd not a filter although it does soften the hard blow of spontaneity somewhat. My smbd relationship is the most honest relationship I have. Outside of that I find it rare to be able to trust others.. and those I can trust t ne honest I automatically call friends.

Dishonesty breeds dishonesty. And in situations that I do not trust I lie by omission... by keeping ,y mouth shut and not speaking out. In everyday life I annoy enough people as it is.

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 5:29:06 PM

MasterDarkSadist

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I believe that being honest, and being brutally/radically honest are different perspectives on the same thing. You can be an honest person without going about it in a distasteful way. You can be honest in your dealings, without having to be an open book. I for one, would not wish to have to be radically honest, as it would upset the balance of some of my interpersonal relationships, my job, etc. Am I a proponent of lying, or keeping the truth from someone when the situation dictates its necessity? NO. However, not blabbing on about something you shouldn't be saying in a setting which it is inappropriate to do so, is still honest, yet if a radically honest person were asked a question,they would be required to answer said question regardless of the consequences, if they were to be true to their beliefs.

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 5:51:44 PM

DemonKia

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quote:

I hate everything you stand for...and ever will.

(Gawwwwd that felt good).

Bwa-ha-ha-ha . . . . . . That's the first time I've ever heard that . . . . . . lol . . . . In exactly those words . . . . . hehehe . .. . .

Which leads to an interesting discussion point on this thread:

Given that deceit & / or omitting info are frequently about immediately getting some desired goal & / or avoiding discomfort & other unpleasant feelings (in my experience), in the long run does hiding a harsh opinion of someone actually help them? Either of them, the hider of the harsh opinion, or the object of the harsh opinion? & I think this is more relevant to closer relationships rather than the total-stranger end of the continuum . . . . . .

For instance, I've had the experience of someone trying to be nice by being dishonest (Oh, no, you're not fat), but in the end the truth usually comes out, & that delay / hiding typically only made the whole experience more painful rather than less . . . . . My experience, others' mileage may vary widely, of course . . . .

Best,
The Demon, Kia

(edited cuz I'm still gettin' the hang o' workin' with the quote thingies . . . lol)

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 4/2/2009 6:02:50 PM >

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 6:00:24 PM

DemonKia

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

Radical honesty says as much about what's outside the box as to what's in it. By which I mean that only a fucked up culture of lying could label honesty as radical in the first place.

Do we practice it... yes and that forms the entire basis of what we have and what we have had for over 5 years. I got lied to priorly just once too often and finally, I mean, finally said enough is enough.

PS To add though: I am always very polite before I tell it like it is... because it is my job to ne polite to Him. It'd not a filter although it does soften the hard blow of spontaneity somewhat. My smbd relationship is the most honest relationship I have. Outside of that I find it rare to be able to trust others.. and those I can trust t ne honest I automatically call friends.

Dishonesty breeds dishonesty. And in situations that I do not trust I lie by omission... by keeping ,y mouth shut and not speaking out. In everyday life I annoy enough people as it is.

lol . . . Yes, I find it odd that both our human culture is such that this is concept is 'radical' & that 'extreme' honesty is sorta almost automatically equated with rudeness; it might take a smidge more work & consideration to tell some 'truths' in a 'nice' way, but in the end I garner far more respect from people when I'm as honest as I possibly can be . . . . The more honest I am, the more respect is a general pattern that has worked for me . . .. . .

With the big caveat, for the record, that I consider myself to only be about ~80% honest, on average . . . . . lol . . . & the general human culture seems to exist somewhere in the ~40%-60% band; & my feeling is that the out-&-organized kink sub-population seems to operate more in that ~75%-100% band . . . . . . In my not-so-humble opinion . . . . . lol

Best,
The Demon, Kia

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 6:03:24 PM

Andalusite

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ShiftedJewel, I have to agree with CreativeDominant that agreeing to work for a company, especially in a retail sales position, then steering customers away strikes me as poor integrity. If you can't honestly "sell" a product, then you should find a different product that you can stand behind! Of course, if the store doesn't carry a particular item, it's fine to point customers at one that does, but sending them to a competitor for something your store does carry seems like a really strange approach. I'm amazed that your manager didn't fire you!

Kia, I disagree that it is "lying" to not share information - it is still a very bad thing to do if that information is important to your interaction with that specific person. However, not telling my boss or my parents that I'm into BDSM isn't a lie of omission, since it's none of their business.

I try to be tactful and kind, while still being honest. For example, if someone asked "does this outfit make me look fat?" I'd probably say, "I think ____ looks better on you," or "It doesn't show you off as well as most of your other clothes do" or some such. I think that claiming it looks fine when it doesn't is a lie, and a bad idea, but that blurting out "It makes you look like a heifer" or "You're fat no matter what you wear!" isn't helpful to anyone!

I don't usually have harsh opinions of people unless they are truly obnoxious, but even when my opinion is caring but negative about a particular thing, I think it's wise to express it in the way they will find the most helpful.

The "say whatever comes to mind" thing sounds like an excuse to be mean, and like a good way to get fired and antagonise the people you care about.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 4/2/2009 6:07:57 PM >

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 6:16:50 PM

ShaktiSama

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Firstly, Radical Honesty is guided by two basic principles: (1) 100% honesty, & (2) speaking whatever comes into one's head, spontaneously & without filter . .. .

Read the article. Find all parties concerned to be petty, ugly, pathetic little white middle-class goblins; having the contents of their heads dumped on me just makes me wish for a shower. I notice with some contempt that no one ever seems to be tempted to try this brand of "Radicalism" on anyone who isn't powerless or extremely limited in their range of responses, either. No one is tempted to be "radically honest" when they are going to get a broken jaw or a visit to the hospital for their trouble.

I would agree with people who seriously question the "truth" of every random thought that enters a person's head, and the value of blathering without filter. To me, this all sounds like yet another vanilla excuse for non-consensual emotional sadism in public and in private.

Vanilla sadists love "movements" like this, because it gives them a chance to be fuckheads to strangers and loved ones and whitewash their sadism by calling it "therapeutic" or "noble". It's bs, they just enjoy being bullies.

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 6:18:04 PM

Whiplashsmile4

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Radical Honesty is not always good. There are moments when it's best to think about things more before you say it. Opening mouth before engaging the brain can be dangerous,

When it comes to the level of honesty, some people are closer to the 80-90% and other people are close to the 30-40% mark.

For instance it's almost impossible to Lie so much that you won't slip up and let the truth out, that is if you want to reverse the roles.

People that lie a lot get tripped up into telling the truth. People that tend to tell the truth a lot sooner or later will get caught up into telling a lie.

Radical Honesty? Why not give it a spin. At times the truth is more amazing and tripped up compared to lies anyways. :-P

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 8:28:07 PM

ShiftedJewel

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quote:

ShiftedJewel, I have to agree with CreativeDominant that agreeing to work for a company, especially in a retail sales position, then steering customers away strikes me as poor integrity. If you can't honestly "sell" a product, then you should find a different product that you can stand behind! Of course, if the store doesn't carry a particular item, it's fine to point customers at one that does, but sending them to a competitor for something your store does carry seems like a really strange approach. I'm amazed that your manager didn't fire you!

It was one item in the two departments that I ran and I have always stood behind Sears and the largest part of their products. And my manager adored me, I was one of the top sales people there. You can see it that way if you like, but a large part of me believes that if you, or anyone for that matter, were to go into a store and look at something that was way over priced or, as I felt about the computers, were way under standard, and didn't realize that... particularly in a bad ecomomy, if the sales person were honest with you, thus saving you money... not only would you appreciate it, but in the future if that same sales person tells you that a particular product is a good deal and worth the cost there is a good chance you're going to believe them. My sales didn't suffer because of my honesty... they improved. But, you know? If you prefer to deal with sales people that don't give a shit about anything but lining their pocket... hon... there are lots of them out there... enjoy.

Jewel

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 10:00:21 PM

Surrenderwithin

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Sure I practice it. I need to practice and practice as I am far from perfecting it yet.
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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/2/2009 10:06:47 PM

MasterFireMaam

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I feel that I try to practice this with people who are close to me, but I know I often lie in order to not hurt their feelings about stuff. Not what I'd consider big stuff...kinda like the "fat dress" things.

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/3/2009 2:47:30 AM

eyesopened

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Went to the mall yesterday and my shopping companion tried on a pair of twill pants and came out of the dressing room and asked if the pants made her butt look big. I asked her if she wanted the truth or just to feel good about the pants and she said she wanted the truth. I tried the 'radical honesty thing' so I said: "Okay, Shamu, any pants would make your ass look big, no.... it's not that your ass looks big, it is huge, behemouth and is a danger to small children and the elderly as the shock of seeing something that large being dragged behind you could prove to be too traumatic. Now, Jumbo, before you start with the damn waterworks, let me further point out that your advanced age is just a pitiful excuse to be too lazy to understand the simple concept of burning more calories than you consume! Oh and for fuck's sake don't try to get me to fall into a lie of omission by giving me that worn out 'You'll-be-sorry-you-said-all-these-mean-things-when-I'm-dead', Mom, cuz I'm not standing down from 100% honesty just to placate you!"

Gosh it did feel liberating and so superior to all those times I simply said "Let's find something that fits better. By the way I'm picking you up tomorrow and I'm going to start a walking program with you."

Fuck! fuck! fuck! Just opened the email from the family attorney and it seems I've been taken out of the will! Bitch!

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/3/2009 3:13:41 AM

ranja

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Thank you DemonKia...sometime i see it spelt wiitwd too...is that then a spelling mistake or does that mean something else?

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/3/2009 3:20:28 AM

ranja

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...ah what it is that we do?...am i getting it?...just unfiltered babbling...i have never been good with just letters...only just shortly realised what imo means...

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/3/2009 9:11:54 AM

aidan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

Went to the mall yesterday and my shopping companion tried on a pair of twill pants and came out of the dressing room and asked if the pants made her butt look big. I asked her if she wanted the truth or just to feel good about the pants and she said she wanted the truth. I tried the 'radical honesty thing' so I said: "Okay, Shamu, any pants would make your ass look big, no.... it's not that your ass looks big, it is huge, behemouth and is a danger to small children and the elderly as the shock of seeing something that large being dragged behind you could prove to be too traumatic. Now, Jumbo, before you start with the damn waterworks, let me further point out that your advanced age is just a pitiful excuse to be too lazy to understand the simple concept of burning more calories than you consume! Oh and for fuck's sake don't try to get me to fall into a lie of omission by giving me that worn out 'You'll-be-sorry-you-said-all-these-mean-things-when-I'm-dead', Mom, cuz I'm not standing down from 100% honesty just to placate you!"

Gosh it did feel liberating and so superior to all those times I simply said "Let's find something that fits better. By the way I'm picking you up tomorrow and I'm going to start a walking program with you."

Fuck! fuck! fuck! Just opened the email from the family attorney and it seems I've been taken out of the will! Bitch!

*slow clap* Bravo.

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RE: Radical Honesty - 4/3/2009 10:48:55 AM

pixidustpet

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TheEngineer works with a gentleman who understands to a pinpoint how to organize a build in a shipyard. the same gentleman has never designed a jacking system. in a conversation we had, TheEngineer was saying "this guy just doesnt know what i do and needs to be told that..."

my response was "if you dont want to piss off this guy who is higher on the food chain than you are (not a boss, but higher in the company), you'd be better off saying that this subject is not his area of expertise."

he KNOWS the doesnt know jacking systems, or how to design them. that isnt his job. but saying someone is lacking in knowledge can be taken as insulting....and saying someone is out of his area of expertise is saying the same thing in a less inflamatory way.

both are honest statements. one is more tactful. you can be honest, even clearly honest, and not be insulting or hurtful to others. if that isnt "radical" enough....then so be it. but personally, i'd rather be kind and honest than rude and honest.

kitten, shrugging.

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