Radical Honesty (Full Version)

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DemonKia -> Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 3:19:41 AM)

Firstly, Radical Honesty is guided by two basic principles: (1) 100% honesty, & (2) speaking whatever comes into one's head, spontaneously & without filter . .. . . .

Secondly, there's this hysterically funny article in which the author interviews 'the guy' behind the Radical Honesty 'movement', & then the author tries to live a more radically honest life for a week:

http://www.esquire.com/features/honesty0707

Okay, that fun aside, I'm curious how y'all see this notion of Radical Honesty as kinksters, what are your varied opinions of this notion of radical honesty? I'm particularly interested in BDSM folks' take on this, given how important honesty is in WIIWD . .. . .

Do you practice Radical Honesty? Just in your BDSM relationships, or in your vanilla life, also? If you don't, are you interested, or not, in pursuing the idea? Do you think Radical Honesty would enhance the kink world or detract from it? Are you ready to have those around you, everywhere, blurt out whatever they're thinking, all the time?

So, for instance, my parents emphasized honesty quite intensely & I tend to think of myself as living at a pretty crispy-intense level of honesty -- some people can be really uncomfortable with the level of bluntness that I'm comfortable with, & I irregularly get that 'too much info' reaction from others . . .. . But, in the long run greater levels of honesty have tended to serve me, & so Radical Honesty sounds exciting & intriguing to my ears . . . . & it certainly seems like a dynamic that's very consistent with BDSM relationships . .. ... .

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on this . . .. . . .

Best,
The Demon, Kia



agirl -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 3:58:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia


Do you practice Radical Honesty? Just in your BDSM relationships, or in your vanilla life, also? If you don't, are you interested, or not, in pursuing the idea? Do you think Radical Honesty would enhance the kink world or detract from it? Are you ready to have those around you, everywhere, blurt out whatever they're thinking, all the time?


Best,
The Demon, Kia


No, I don't practice it. It wouldn't make any difference who I was with, or what relationship I was in, I will never, ever be 100% honest.

There are many people I know who really are served best by NOT blurting out whatever they are thinking all of the time........but it would be great entertainment to watch from the side-lines....lol

I'm no more or less honest because I'm owned by someone. The relationship has a level of frankness that we both desire and we both contribute to that. With other people in my life it's the same, the level of *honesty* and frankness is appropriate for it, and is decided by me (and them) in an unspoken way.

Some people are robust enough for Radical Honesty, I expect. I'm not.

agirl









RCdc -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 4:03:31 AM)

Radical honesty seems good in theory.  In practise I find most people have a total inability to maintain it with any consistancy, particularly those that claim they practise it.
 
The thing is, it's been around for years.  'Radical' makes it sound cool and buzzy.  It's simply brutal honesty wrapped up in pretty paper and a 'nice' bow for public comsumption.
 
Do I practice it?  I believe anyone who answers with a yes or no is more interested in bold claims and status than honesty.
 
the.dark.



agirl -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 4:09:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Radical honesty seems good in theory.  In practise I find most people have a total inability to maintain it with any consistancy, particularly those that claim they practise it.
 
The thing is, it's been around for years.  'Radical' makes it sound cool and buzzy.  It's simply brutal honesty wrapped up in pretty paper and a 'nice' bow for public comsumption.
 
Do I practice it?  I believe anyone who answers with a yes or no is more interested in bold claims and status than honesty.
 
the.dark.


I think I just made a bold claim......where's my status??........lol

agirl



shorn -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 4:09:58 AM)

shorn tries with people who know who shorn is, but most of the world doesn't know who she is.



RCdc -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 4:11:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl
I think I just made a bold claim......where's my status??........lol

agirl



[;)]

the.dark.



pinkwind -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 4:11:21 AM)

As far as possible i practice radical honesty, my parents were exponents of the art and tried to instill it into their children, and out of the two i am closest to the core of it.

While my parents, or rather my mother, didn't seem to have much fellow feeling and therefore paid little attention to the effect her outright honesty had on the recipient i am different, thankfully. After all, radical honesty does not go hand in hand with how to win friends and influence people, does it!

i have learnt over time to judge those for whom absolute honesty works for them, and those where it doesn't, and to couch my honest dealings accordingly.




InTonguesslave -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 4:25:33 AM)

i have friends who i am honest with, completely and as such we have very close relationships - having said that, if i felt that honesty would not serve the moment i would be more careful in what i said and how i said it.  when you have a friendship based on honesty its difficult then to renaig on that.

but i also have friends who couldnt cope with my level of honesty atall and so i dont go there - interestingly enough, we're not as close as the friends i am (generally) absolutely up front with.

there are ways of being honest, you can impart some humour, gentleness and pick youre words. 

it is about being true to youreself more than anything, in being so, the people around you can trust you and with that trust there develops a bond that isnt fudged by bullshit, censored or compromised.  on the whole people prefer people to be honest, i know i do.  but i would never be brutal about it and  i would always pick my moments and my words carefully.



DesFIP -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 4:32:52 AM)

I couldn't not filter things in my head. It's one of the reasons I like wiitwd, it gets me out of my head and into the moment.

Beyond that, what the result would be is probably a lot of hurt feelings and resentments.

Do you really need to jump out of your car, confront the person behind you for their poor driving, and then have them pull a gun on you? Or inform you they are coming from the funeral of a friend?

Filters, civility, manners. courtesy are required for civilization. Without them, we would be getting into fights all the time, and never getting what we want. If you get a cup of coffee, and the overworked waitress accidentally puts cream in it, you are more likely to be welcomed back and served in a timely manner the next day if you say "Excuse me Miss, I asked for black and this is light" instead of what you are thinking "Hey bitch, what the fuck's the matter with you? Don't you know black means no fucking cream?"



ranja -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 4:51:06 AM)

honesty is a strange thing...i am quite honest by nature which sometimes means i put my foot in it, eew..or hurt someones feelings, sorry...or even miss the joke, boring...sometimes i try to be less honest which i have to say makes my life run smoother...then i consider myself more diplomatic...but me being me the dreaded honesty will creep in again...also being honest does in no way mean that one is actually right unfortunately...
and i honestly have no clue what WWIIWD means



agirl -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 4:54:41 AM)

It's just too silly to NOT consider how you say things rather than blabbing without thought.

My dear old Mumsy repeats herself a LOT........and while my thoughts might be....* Oh fucking hell, not again*....my mouth says ......* That's right, you mentioned that*....lol

I NEED a filter for my nasty, horrible, impatient, sometimes irrational thoughts, thank you very much. The world is a nicer place with some *control*....lol

agirl



persephonee -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 5:05:52 AM)

If i were radically honest, i would be shot before lunch.

i do have a friend of about 20 yrs with whom i am about  that honest...sometimes i forget about how hard that is to take and i end up trying to add others into our little agreement, and they always get hurt, and by extension, so do i. Conversely, she is the only one i can take that kind of pain from also...i count myself lucky that i found one person on the planet who really really will tell me like it is, regardless of feelings...just so i have a reality check. But now that im thinking about it...she did let me wear that leather biker jacket when i first came out of the closet all those many years ago...she let me wear it daily for over a year and only after i realized how stoopid i looked did she deign to mention that it was the funniest shit she had ever seen....harumph.

i may have to get that book and send it to her....sniffle.



eyesopened -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 5:22:29 AM)

I can't see where turning off one's internal filters equals honesty.  The filters are useful for internal clarification.  Unfiltered thoughts are not always accurate and therefore how can they be considered either truth or lie, they are simply thoughts and perceptions.

One day at the beach I saw a young woman, very pretty but with the most hideous, huge belly-button I had ever seen!  Almost like some kind of birth defect and my internal dialog went "jeez I know I'm not perfect but if my belly-button looked like the mouth of a cave I sure as hell wouldn't expose it to the public!" 

However, as the woman passed me, I saw that she had a black tatto around her naval in a pattern that could not be discerned from a distance. 

Had I blerted out my thoughts and perception I would not have been accurate, I would have in fact been stating a false assuption, I would have been cruel without cause and who oh who would have been enriched by my utterance?

To me, "radical" honesty sounds like a trumped up excuse to be a horse's ass and to make being a horse's ass a superior position.



ThoughtfulSwitch -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 5:31:42 AM)

You aren't alone about being shot before lunch for radical honesty.
Radical honesty is a knightly thing in theory. But what would it mean in real life? We would perhaps harm people we love or overcharge people we don't know.
Why should I bother the cashier in the supermarket with my sexuality?

Or to illustrate it better, I add todays examples:
1) Should I tell my hairdresser that she's a real cutie and she can have a bondage session for free?
Well... perhaps amusing, but would it be useful for any of us?
2) Should I tell my customer that they actually don't need a redesign on their website, especially if they don't even know about which color or appearance would prefer?
I'd lose minimum one task and would have problems to pay next shopping.
3) Should I tell my future mother-in-law that I contemn her totally for ruining the sanity of both daughters? Telling that she has afflicted life-long problems to them?
Well... hehe... I should perhaps try this one. But time hasn't come yet. This would be satisfying and end up her bothering self-praising. But even if she does not jump from the next bridge it will do more damage to her daughters than to her. And I don't believe that I should play the judge just to glorify radical honesty.

Honesty is desirable, radical honesty is just tactless and careless. We wouldn't make the world become a better place...
Only selective radical honesty can be puryfying and helpful.



KneelforAnne -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 5:35:19 AM)


My answer to this is both yes and no.

Yes, I think complete honesty is important…extremely important.

No, I don’t think it has to be blunt or painful.

I think there is a line between truthful and rude.

Before I am completely, utterly honest on any subject I feel strongly about (strongly either way!) I ask the person I am speaking with if they would like my honest answer, and then I ask once more if they are sure.

I feel that gives me the green light to say what I really feel--which at times is agreeing with them, but at other times is not quite what they were looking for.

Regardless, I try and be tactful.

Some people I’ve met in my life use the “I’m just blunt and truthful” argument to just be hurtful.

Most of the time I think it’s an excuse to slide away from any emotional fallout their comments cause or a bid for attention.



IronBear -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 5:51:57 AM)

Honesty is incredibly important to me but anything radical I tend to look at with extreme suspicion havinbg seen the problems caused by radicals in politics and religion bith of whom are usually also fanatics. beside which, I am also a diplomat by nature and speaking what ever comes into my mind could do more dammage than if i shuop up and just help deal with the situation and later analysed my radical thoughts philisophically. 



eleusis -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 6:02:16 AM)

I do not practice radical honesty, nor do I have any desire to do so.  Not only do I find the bluntness to be rude- I think it would get people into a world of hurt.  Look at the workplace alone: with no filters, NONE, people would constantly be getting fired or brought up on sexual harassment charges.  If your boss is hot, and what you'd like to do with him pops into your mind- you are supposed to just blurt it out?  And how about the boss with the hot secretary?  Is he supposed to be radically honest that he's constantly trying to look down her blouse?  What are the statistics, guys think about sex every three minutes or so?  With radical honesty, they would then be ~talking~ about sex every three minutes or so, too?  Yeah, I'm thinking that would go over real well in places like church, the PTA meeting, the grocery store:

Pretty young cashier: "Thanks, do you have any coupons?"

Male Customer:  "No, but I'd really love to take you home and screw your brains out, do you like I was a caveman and then dump you on the curb as I'd have no further use for you."

Yeahhhhhhh....that would really be no problem at all...

I'm going to be radically honest, just this once: I don't think ~anybody~ practices radical honesty ALL of the time.  If they claim to, I think they are full of it.



ShiftedJewel -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 6:19:00 AM)

Ok, I have to admit that I have told people before that when they start babbling about something all I hear is "Waa Waa Waa" (like the adults on a Charlie Brown cartoons?) I apologize and mean it, I explain that for whatever reason my brain refuses to hear them when they start going on and on about something. It's that way with my oldest daughter. She just laughs. And no, I don't have a lot of close friends, most people can't deal with that kind of honesty. And that's ok with me, hubby and I are totally honest with each other, my siblings are used to my "directness" and my kids are just as open and honest as I am.
 
I do tell people up front not to ask me a question that they really don't want my answer to. And I have on occasion replied with "Do you want the truth or do you want me to lie and spare your feelings?" to some questions.
 
But see... I'm not painfully honest because of some higher standard I've set for myself or for others. I'm painfully honest and direct basically because I'm a very busy person and tend to be lazy. I don't want to try to remember if I said I liked that dress or that outfit or not. My head is already full enough, I don't need that kind of garbage cluttering it up. If it's something I don't like today there's a good chance I'm not gonna like it tomorrow or next year. No, I don't go around telling people that I think they look like crap, but if it's a friend and they don't look good I will say something. I try to be reasonably subtle about it (I don't normally succeed, but I try). Like if they are wearing something that just looks wrong on them I'll ask if they would like me to take it in or let it out so that it fits better? (I'm a seamstress) Or I offer them a different shirt or something like that.
 
But yeah, the friends I do have accept my honesty whether or not they appreciate it.
 
Jewel



KneelforAnne -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 6:33:30 AM)


Good morning Jewel,

I see where you are coming from.

I think perhaps I should clarify my statement.

With not so close friends, co-workers and so forth:

I don’t lie, fib…whatever….I just keep my mouth shut.

If I think someone looks awful, then I don’t say so….If I think someone’s husband is an ass, I certainly don’t say so.

If they ask…then I think there are tactful ways of saying what you think.

For instance,--“perhaps another cut would look better on you“/“I think it‘s a pretty pattern, but the dress doesn‘t work well for you” ….or “I’m not really sure what you see in him”/”I’m sure there is something in him that I am not aware of.”

Now for close friends, I go the route of:

"We've been very close friends for a number of years and I value your opinion and judgement, as I hope you value mine.  I have to be completely honest, now....  I have something that I would like to talk about, but I don't want you to feel that I am attacking you or your decisions, I just need you to explain things from your point of view."

(Not really the exact wording, but the gist.  It's a little too formal...lol)

That brings the topic out in an open manner, but it keeps people from feeling attacked.

It’s been my experience when people feel attacked, that is when conversation and exchange shuts down because they are no longer comfortable.

It's worked really well for me in the past...it seems to create an environment of "I still love you, but I think you're wrong."

Just my thoughts.

Happy Thursday!



ShiftedJewel -> RE: Radical Honesty (4/2/2009 6:33:53 AM)

quote:

I'm going to be radically honest, just this once: I don't think ~anybody~ practices radical honesty ALL of the time.  If they claim to, I think they are full of it.


I worked at a casino years ago. One night a guy playing one of the machines near by said "I'm ahead almost $4000 dollars, what would you do?" I said, take the money and run. My boss was standing behind me, she didn't appreciate that and told me that the goal was to get them to spend the money. My reply was "He asked what I would do and that's exactly what I would do".
 
I worked in retail for a while, in an electronics and home office department of a large, well known, store. They only sold one brand of computer, a brand that to this day I still refuse to say nice things about. I also worked on commission. Customers would come in and say they were looking for a good computer. My reply? "Have you considered shopping someplace else?" I told them that if they insisted I would sell them on of ours but I wouldn't tell them I thought it was a "good" computer. One elderly couple came in one day and told me they were looking for a computer because their kids all lived all over the country and they wanted to be able to email back and forth with them. They knew absolutely nothing about computers. I could have sold them one hellova set up and they'd never know it was five times the computer they needed. Instead, I sent them to the public library where they were offering classes for free to senior citizens on computers. That way they could shop and know exactly what they needed. And of course my personal favorite. The IEEP cable for printers. Where I worked they were between $13 and $20. Of course people complained, that's not cheap!! Generally I would tell them to check Big Lots, most of the time they had that exact same cable for a couple of bucks.
 
In the end? I made loyal customers that only bought from me when they came in because I was so honest with them. Like the article said, people are a lot more open to honesty then most give them credit for.
 
And your scenerio? Been there... and we had a wonderful date. I still have a copy of his CD. (turned out he was a jazz musician).
 
Jewel



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