Collarspace Discussion Forums


Home  Login  Search 

RE: Reality or fantasy?


View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
 
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Reality or fantasy? Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 11:45:37 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
slave, as a word, has more than one specific definition, as do many words, depending on context.


Precisely.


then why make this statement?

quote:

...The fact is that a person on collarme who says 'I am a slave to my master' is putting a name upon something that is not at all akin to slavery...



Because what you live daily is yours, it belongs to you. It's your reality. It's personal, and you chose to give it that name, slavery, with your personal definition attached to it. Which you are free to do.

I will ask a question too, if you don't mind: why do you feel the need to describe it as slavery and to ascribe that noun to your personal relationship?

_____________________________



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 11:49:59 AM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

In a world that is as clear cut as the above is all D/s, M/s, BDSM etc just fantasy?
 


Absolutely not. You can generate your own code of behaviour and choose to live by that. You are bound by the law of course, but then you are in any working, relationship or family arrangement (ditto day-to-day existence); so there's nothing particularly unrealistic about how you choose to organise your relationship.

Edited to add: I would have thought it self-evident that any couple setting up a master/slave relationship, is engaging in a very real relationship. The fact that it's not recognised by an external force such as a legal title, doesn't detract from the nature of the relationship.


It seems to me the point of these threads, and the contention they inevitably bring (perhaps are designed to bring), is the external forces part.

Maybe without that recognition or whatever is gained from the disharmonious discourse something is detracted from the nature of the relationship.

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 42
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 11:51:56 AM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee
Maybe without that recognition or whatever is gained from the disharmonious discourse something is detracted from the nature of the relationship.


Yes.

_____________________________



(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 11:58:00 AM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Maybe without that recognition or whatever is gained from the disharmonious discourse something is detracted from the nature of the relationship.



My apologies in advance, if I am misunderstanding what you are saying; are you saying you don’t believe there can be harmony in a Master/slave relationship?
Kim


_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 12:01:05 PM   
MrRodgers


Posts: 10542
Joined: 7/30/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Oh, I'd get off on getting arrested big time, can you imagine the thrill of it  ?

You mosey on down to my zip code girl and I'll...'bust your ass.'

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 12:01:47 PM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		It seems to me some people are merely circling the discussion arguing that the colloquial and contextual use of the term "slavery" shouldn't be used by individuals in D/s relationships (regardless of the fact that it is a given that the term conveys the intended information) simply on the ground that the common social definition of it is different.

It's like telling someone it's a "fantasy" if they use the phrase "spank the monkey" because, in reality, there are (likely) no monkeys involved.


_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 12:07:22 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
slave, as a word, has more than one specific definition, as do many words, depending on context.


Precisely.


then why make this statement?

quote:

...The fact is that a person on collarme who says 'I am a slave to my master' is putting a name upon something that is not at all akin to slavery...



Because what you live daily is yours, it belongs to you. It's your reality. It's personal, and you chose to give it that name, slavery, with your personal definition attached to it. Which you are free to do.

I will ask a question too, if you don't mind: why do you feel the need to describe it as slavery and to ascribe that noun to your personal relationship?


this slave didn't invent the terms "consensual slavery" or "Master/slave relationship".  she used them after learning about them at the ripe old age of 36.  this slave discovered a sub-group of folks within the general population that establish what they refer to as D/s and M/s relationships...an alternative to the conventional, socially accepted marriages and other egalitarian-based pairings.
 
she found out that folks referred to themselves in all manner of ways, mostly "submissive", "dominant" and "switch", in order to facilitate pairings that fulfilled both parties.  some folks even went so far as to differentiate between Dom/sub and Master/slave as to their preferred relationship style...although for some, the label is the only discernable difference between the two.
 
this slave's personality, sexuality and preferred relationship orientation is more aligned with what is referred to as consensual slavery within the context of a Master/slave relationship dynamic than any other definition she has run across.
 
neither of us were looking for a long-term Master/slave relationship.  neither of us referred to ourselves as Master or slave in our profiles when we were searching for partners for fun and frolic.  it is a relationship dynamic that appealed to both of us and has brought us both fulfillment and joy, regardless of how masterfully He had managed His life beforehand, or how slavishly this slave served everyone that crossed her path before we met...we were a dominant and submissive.  it wasn't until we crafted this relationship that we referred to each other as Master and slave...and we don't expect anyone else to refer to us as that either---only within the context of our relationship to each other.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 12:09:48 PM   
AnnaOfAramis


Posts: 523
Joined: 7/30/2008
Status: offline 		It seems to me that whether it is fantasy or reality is an unanswerable question. As unanswerable as whether there really is a God or whether it is mythological fantasy. Does that make the lives of every one who is religious any less real? Is a priest not really a servant of God, even if Joe Shmoe sits there and says there is no God? The purpose of discussing these questions is not to find the one true answer, but to explore possibilities and to see many angles. For some, slavery is fantasy, because they themselves don't believe in it. If they feel they can walk out any time, then it really is not slavery. For others they cannot walk out because they are emotionally enslaved to the Master. Not every one "chooses" to become a slave. One can simply become enslaved- not through choice but because it happens to you ( like falling in love it can be out of your control). He has a hold on them that they respond to as a slave and they cannot leave. If it ever changes so that they are able to leave, then they are no longer enslaved. I also know some people who actually have been sold into slavery and have no assets of their own. They do not fantasize what they live, but are in every way I can see a slave, legal or not. To base reality on legality is a bit silly really. So, there are not really polygynous Mormons, because it is illegal? That makes them somehow not really wives, because the rest of the world doesn't support it? If you decide to do slavery as a fantasy, then it is a fantasy. If to you it is the reality of the relationship between you, then it is reality.

(in reply to cpK69)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 12:10:56 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline 		I wasn't sure I wanted to answer this thread, for all the reasons that subtee brought up...but I can't help but put my two cents in so here goes...

Any relationship a person chooses to engage in with another person (or persons) is a construct.  Sometimes that construct is legal and sometimes it is not but that does not stop it from being a real construct 

Is it a real construct to others?  It may well be but NOT NECESSARILY defined in the same way...e.g. Mercnbeth.  I see their relationship as one of Dominance/submission and I recognize that what they have constructed is, in their world (which is what matters), a master/slave relationship.  In MY world, I don't agree with the term "consensual slavery", seeing it as an oxymoron.  Therefore, if I am going to set up a D/s construct for myself, it is not going to be as a "master/slave construct but rather a "master/submissive" construct.  Does that mean that I don't recognize the construct that is Mercnbeth's relationship?  No, it means that while I would not define it in the same way, I can most certainly recognize it and admire it.  Is the fact that I disagree with their "descriptive term" for their relationship make it worth arguing over?  Hell no, for they have certainly shown that they live what they believe and they follow it...that IS real.  I have a submissive friend who has observed their relationship closely and unless she is really skilled at lying about it, I know that their relationship is a close one of both dedication to their defined-by-them M/s dynamic and their life together.   

(in reply to InTonguesslut)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 12:12:16 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cpK69

My apologies in advance, if I am misunderstanding what you are saying; are you saying you don’t believe there can be harmony in a Master/slave relationship?
Kim



No apology necessary, I've been less than clear. I certainly believe there can be harmony in any relationship. What I'm suggesting is that for some external input seems to be, well, really necessary. I don't know to what end. But it seems clear to me that some are always going to need to tell and others will need to feed that need. Somehow, it's fulfilling!

_____________________________

Don't believe everything you think...

(in reply to cpK69)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 12:14:53 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		I didn't see anybody say that people shouldn't use whatever term they wanted to describe themselves. I did see a couple of people make very pertinent points (marie in particular) which seem to have been ignored, for whatever reason.

In the end, only the people involved know what's going on between them - it's when they demand the rest of the world give their intimate relationships some kind of superficial validation that the disagreements arise on these forum boards. Since slavery is illegal, and they're not arguing to make it less so, let them have at it and describe their intimate rapport in whatever way they like.

It's strange, because it's the very people who argue against conventionality that seem the most hell bent on conventions. Why should anyone care if others don't believe a person is a slave, if that's how she feels personally? What's arguable is whether the person in question is a slave... or whether she is enacting a fantasy.

< Message edited by kittinSol -- 4/2/2009 12:16:57 PM >

_____________________________



(in reply to NihilusZero)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 12:21:06 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

...Since slavery is illegal, and they're not arguing to make it so, let them have at it and describe their intimate rapport in whatever way they like...


indeed, why must certain folks attempt to invalidate other's relationships with arguements like "slavery isn't legal", when they know full well there is more than one definition of the word, depending on context?

ESPECIALLY on a message board that includes sections such as "Ask a Master"...and they aren't talking judo.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 4/2/2009 12:23:27 PM >

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 12:44:40 PM   
MasterFireMaam


Posts: 5587
Joined: 3/1/2006
From: Charleston, WV
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

In a world that is as clear cut as the above is all D/s, M/s, BDSM etc just fantasy?



In my life, I have I learned that there are two kinds of truth: factual and experiential. All the things you listed are indeed factually true. However, all my experiences to the opposite are true, too. Not sure if that makes it less a fantasy to someone else, but it does to me and my experience.

Master Fire


_____________________________

The power of who we are can be intoxicating. The power of who we could be is humbling.
-----
Ms Relationship Books
-----
BDSM How-To Books

(in reply to InTonguesslut)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 12:54:56 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...Since slavery is illegal, and they're not arguing to make it so, let them have at it and describe their intimate rapport in whatever way they like...


indeed, why must certain folks attempt to invalidate other's relationships with arguements like "slavery isn't legal", when they know full well there is more than one definition of the word, depending on context?

ESPECIALLY on a message board that includes sections such as "Ask a Master"...and they aren't talking judo.


Here's the crux of it, I think: questioning the semantics isn't invalidating the relationship. The relationship is personal. The words you use to describe it to the world can be questioned, on the other hand, by the world you present it to: and that's part of being on a public forum.

_____________________________



(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 12:58:59 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: subtee

Maybe without that recognition or whatever is gained from the disharmonious discourse something is detracted from the nature of the relationship.



I suppose we all use a benchmark/guidance of some description from which to set our own standards, and seek some form of reassurance that we're on the right track, which is validation of sorts (including the various sub-groups inhabiting this board).

My point was around titles/labels bestowed upon a relationship: you can give a tin of beans any supermarket label you wish, but it remains a tin of beans. It's the nature of the relationship that tells the story.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 12:59:14 PM   
AnnaOfAramis


Posts: 523
Joined: 7/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

Here's the crux of it, I think: questioning the semantics isn't invalidating the relationship. The relationship is personal. The words you use to describe it to the world can be questioned, on the other hand, by the world you present it to: and that's part of being on a public forum.


Words, words, mere words, no matter from the heart.
(William Shakespeare )

< Message edited by AnnaOfAramis -- 4/2/2009 1:04:35 PM >

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 1:00:42 PM   
kidwithknife


Posts: 193
Joined: 9/9/2008
Status: offline 		Historically speaking, I think most BDSM Master/slave relationships are probably nearer to the feudal liege lord/bondsmen model than they are to historical slavery.  (Including the Viking version, unless anyone seriously wants to argue that human sacrifice is acceptable in BDSM relationships).  It partly comes down to definitions though. Whether you'd consider serfs to be slaves etc.

That's merely of academic interest though.  It doesn't actually matter in the context of BDSM relationships.

However, I think it's absolutely the case that Master/slave relationships have an element of fantasy involved.  But that's not a bad thing.  "Fantasy" has many different definitions, depending on context.  (Far more than "slave").  And not all of them are perjorative.


_____________________________

We went to see the fall of Rome - I thought it would please us
To watch how the mighty go in a blaze of hubris
But I just stood there hypnotised by all the beautiful madness

(New Model Army, Into the Wind)

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 1:14:21 PM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Is it fantasy?  For some yes.
For all, there are degrees of fantasy.  But no more than there is in any relationship or environment. 
 
Consensual slavery?  I don't believe in it nor do I practise it.  Slavery is basically being under 'whatever/inserthere' control, regardless of choice.  Some people make the active decision to continue that relationship or not but regardless, you are enslaved, consent or not.  Slavery to me, is simply another word for love.  Now that sounds all hearts and flowers, but when it comes down to it, belonging is simply another emotion.  You cannot quantify emotions as fantasy or not because they cannot be weighed and measured.
 
the.dark.

_____________________________
RC&dc


love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to InTonguesslut)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 1:14:57 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth


this slave didn't invent the terms "consensual slavery" or "Master/slave relationship".  she used them after learning about them at the ripe old age of 36.  this slave discovered a sub-group of folks within the general population that establish what they refer to as D/s and M/s relationships...an alternative to the conventional, socially accepted marriages and other egalitarian-based pairings.
 
she found out that folks referred to themselves in all manner of ways, mostly "submissive", "dominant" and "switch", in order to facilitate pairings that fulfilled both parties.  some folks even went so far as to differentiate between Dom/sub and Master/slave as to their preferred relationship style...although for some, the label is the only discernable difference between the two.
 



Like beth..........the terms were already *out there* by the time I strolled along. The part in bold was the interesting part for me, not any notion of being a *a slave*or being *a submissive* but these were the terms it was all couched in.

It's a clear reality that I live my life under someone else's authority. I chose it and just *do* it. There's nothing remotely complicated about it and it's quite easy to explain. It's not a fantasy , it's simply a way of relating. Quite boring actually....lol

agirl








(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 1:16:10 PM   
cpK69


Posts: 1593
Joined: 5/9/2008
Status: offline 		Ah, I understand what you mean.
There are times when I just want to blurt out, “Who are you trying to convince?”
On the other hand, there are times when I feel like asking, “What would it take to convince you?”
Either way, I enjoy a good challenge; it’s what keeps me coming back for more.
Kim
Side note: both "you"s ment in general.

_____________________________

Humility is where weakness and strength meet and humanity begins.

one voice

(in reply to subtee)
Profile   Post #: 60
Page:   <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
All Forums >> [Community Discussions] >> General BDSM Discussion >> RE: Reality or fantasy? Page: <<   < prev  1 2 [3] 4 5   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts




Collarchat.com © 2025
Terms of Service Privacy Policy Spam Policy

0.094