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RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 1:18:37 PM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		Just a thank you for all your replies so far, they are really interesting.
 
Just as an aside for those who think this is going to turn into a bun fight or was intended to turn into a bun fight, it really wasn't.

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Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

(in reply to kidwithknife)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 1:20:53 PM   
subtee


Posts: 5133
Joined: 7/26/2007
Status: offline 		What's a "bun fight?"


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Don't believe everything you think...

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RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 1:25:01 PM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline 		However many pages of carnage was left behind in the other thread lol. Thats a bun fight

_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

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Profile   Post #: 63
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 1:26:20 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline 		A fight.......with buns ....... or a fight with imaginary buns .....lol

agirl

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Profile   Post #: 64
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 1:27:45 PM   
InTonguesslave


Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline 		fantasy brings people together - it is when those fantasies are acted out that it becomes reality. that is the nature of bdsm.

enslavement is only really enslavement when acceptance is total and glitches dont cause the enslaved or the enslaver to look for the exit door.  the exit door is always there its whether you bend to the disparities and continue.  if you dont, if you keep the exit door in youre sights, then youre not fully enslaved and you never were.


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RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 1:34:28 PM   
agirl


Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

fantasy brings people together - it is when those fantasies are acted out that it becomes reality. that is the nature of bdsm.



Not quite sure what you mean by that ....but it's not the nature of our bdsm. It was all rather practical really.

agirl

(in reply to InTonguesslave)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 3:15:21 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...Since slavery is illegal, and they're not arguing to make it so, let them have at it and describe their intimate rapport in whatever way they like...


indeed, why must certain folks attempt to invalidate other's relationships with arguements like "slavery isn't legal", when they know full well there is more than one definition of the word, depending on context?

ESPECIALLY on a message board that includes sections such as "Ask a Master"...and they aren't talking judo.


Here's the crux of it, I think: questioning the semantics isn't invalidating the relationship. The relationship is personal. The words you use to describe it to the world can be questioned, on the other hand, by the world you present it to: and that's part of being on a public forum.


if this public forum was match.com, or eharmony, or somewhere folks gather together to discuss conventional relationships, then this slave could possibly agree with you.
 
but it isn't...and THAT'S the crux of it, for this slave.
 
if those sites had sub-sections with the "Ask a Master" and "Ask a submissive/slave" headings, she could possibly understand the "but slavery isn't legal" ignorance that would no doubt waft through, along with the rest of the folks who are only comfortable when everyone is participating in conventional, socially acceptable pairings.
 
but to wade into a BDSM message board, complete with sub-sections for posing questions to "Masters" and "slaves" and then proclaim that none of these folks are in "real" relationships because it's just not based on specific legal definitions of the terms...seems a bit ignorant, if not an outright attempt to invalidate or belittle another's choice of relationship dynamic.

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RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 3:26:43 PM   
InTonguesslut


Posts: 401
Joined: 3/5/2009
Status: offline
quote:

but to wade into a BDSM message board, complete with sub-sections for posing questions to "Masters" and "slaves" and then proclaim that none of these folks are in "real" relationships because it's just not based on specific legal definitions of the terms...seems a bit ignorant, if not an outright attempt to invalidate or belittle another's choice of relationship dynamic.


Just to clarify my intentions with this thread were never to attempt to invalidate anyones relatioship. My apologies if it comes across that way or i have in any way implied it.



_____________________________

Aka missturbation

It's not shopping if you buy 10 items or less.

If it fits in a toaster, i can cook it.

What you don't see with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Prov

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 3:34:48 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline 		The irony is that here, on this website, your pairing is more socially conventional than mine, beth.

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RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 3:38:07 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut

quote:

but to wade into a BDSM message board, complete with sub-sections for posing questions to "Masters" and "slaves" and then proclaim that none of these folks are in "real" relationships because it's just not based on specific legal definitions of the terms...seems a bit ignorant, if not an outright attempt to invalidate or belittle another's choice of relationship dynamic.


Just to clarify my intentions with this thread were never to attempt to invalidate anyones relatioship. My apologies if it comes across that way or i have in any way implied it.




that wasn't directed at you, InTonguesslut...it was directed at the folks who come here and either knowingly or ignorantly disparage and dismiss other's relationships and what they do within the confines of those relationships (specifically Master/slave relationships) by using definitions that are completely out of context...given where we are (a BDSM messagae board) and the specific subject matter (Master/slave dynamic relationships) we are discussing.

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Profile   Post #: 70
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 4:02:16 PM   
LovingMistress45


Posts: 271
Joined: 2/7/2009
Status: offline 		I think M/s, D/s or any other combo we to call it for relationships happening that involve BDSM are real.  As real as the people involved in them.  Now are they legally inforcable? No, but not being legally recognized doesn't make it a fantasy.  Here in FL and most other States it is not legal for Gays/Lesbians to marry.  Does that make their love or relationship a fantasy? I don't think so.  So the fact that I express my love through sadism and ownership, does not make it a fantasy.

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Profile   Post #: 71
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 4:14:02 PM   
kittinSol


Posts: 16926
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
that wasn't directed at you, InTonguesslut...it was directed at the folks who come here and either knowingly or ignorantly disparage and dismiss other's relationships and what they do within the confines of those relationships (specifically Master/slave relationships) by using definitions that are completely out of context...given where we are (a BDSM messagae board) and the specific subject matter (Master/slave dynamic relationships) we are discussing.


In fact, it's obvious now that you are not willing to discuss any of this openly, unless it's with people that agree with your conception of things - that's your prerogative. I didn't see your relationship dismissed, or disparaged but it's your right, of course, to feel this way. It's also others' prerogative to discuss this with other people: after all, you're not the subject of this thread personally, neither do you hold the universal truth when it comes to any of this. None of us do.

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RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 4:15:36 PM   
marie2


Posts: 1690
Joined: 11/4/2008
From: Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

...Since slavery is illegal, and they're not arguing to make it so, let them have at it and describe their intimate rapport in whatever way they like...


indeed, why must certain folks attempt to invalidate other's relationships with arguements like "slavery isn't legal", when they know full well there is more than one definition of the word, depending on context?

ESPECIALLY on a message board that includes sections such as "Ask a Master"...and they aren't talking judo.


Here's the crux of it, I think: questioning the semantics isn't invalidating the relationship. The relationship is personal. The words you use to describe it to the world can be questioned, on the other hand, by the world you present it to: and that's part of being on a public forum.


if this public forum was match.com, or eharmony, or somewhere folks gather together to discuss conventional relationships, then this slave could possibly agree with you.
 
but it isn't...and THAT'S the crux of it, for this slave.
 
if those sites had sub-sections with the "Ask a Master" and "Ask a submissive/slave" headings, she could possibly understand the "but slavery isn't legal" ignorance that would no doubt waft through, along with the rest of the folks who are only comfortable when everyone is participating in conventional, socially acceptable pairings.
 
but to wade into a BDSM message board, complete with sub-sections for posing questions to "Masters" and "slaves" and then proclaim that none of these folks are in "real" relationships because it's just not based on specific legal definitions of the terms...seems a bit ignorant, if not an outright attempt to invalidate or belittle another's choice of relationship dynamic.


This wasn't directly addressed to me, but I'd like to jump in here with some input.

I don't think anyone is attempting to invalidate anyone's relationship here.  I just think we (generic) share different ideas and have different approaches.  And the personal reasons (From either or any camp) are valid to each.  I've oscillated at times,  and evolved over the years and I've come to certain conclusions, based upon my own experiences and observations, that work for me, just as you (or whoever) has come to the conclusions and beliefs that work for you.  

What's wrong with sharing those different points of view?  I actually like to hear both sides of it.  Sometimes it opens up my mind to a point of view I hadn't considered.  Other times it makes me more firm in my own beliefs. Either way, it's only a discussion. I don't understand why expressing opposing views as food for thought and adult discussion, is being interpreted as an attempt to "invalidate" your relationship.  I don't think anyone here has said (or implied) that someone "shouldn't" use the terms, or that someone isn't real, or that someone's relationship is bullshit or a fantasy.  We were asked whether or not we see wiitwd and mastery and slavery etc, as fantasy or reality,  not whether or not we think mercnbeth's relationship is real or valid.  

I agree there are different interpretations of the terms we use.  Heck, I use the terms too, when I'm in "Rome".  But this is a topic about the application and reality of some of the terms that we use and what they mean to us each as individuals.  What's wrong with discussing how we feel about this, and why we feel the way we do? We certainly can't discuss it on Eharmony.  So where should it be discussed by those who want to discuss it?  Or are you saying it shouldn't be discussed at all?   
 


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Profile   Post #: 73
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 4:19:17 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
that wasn't directed at you, InTonguesslut...it was directed at the folks who come here and either knowingly or ignorantly disparage and dismiss other's relationships and what they do within the confines of those relationships (specifically Master/slave relationships) by using definitions that are completely out of context...given where we are (a BDSM messagae board) and the specific subject matter (Master/slave dynamic relationships) we are discussing.


In fact, it's obvious now that you are not willing to discuss any of this openly, unless it's with people that agree with your conception of things - that's your prerogative. I didn't see your relationship dismissed, or disparaged but it's your right, of course, to feel this way. It's also others' prerogative to discuss this with other people: after all, you're not the subject of this thread personally, neither do you hold the universal truth when it comes to any of this. None of us do.


Notice a similarity to the Off Topic boards kittin?

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As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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Profile   Post #: 74
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 4:30:52 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

It seems to me some people are merely circling the discussion arguing that the colloquial and contextual use of the term "slavery" shouldn't be used by individuals in D/s relationships (regardless of the fact that it is a given that the term conveys the intended information) simply on the ground that the common social definition of it is different.

It's like telling someone it's a "fantasy" if they use the phrase "spank the monkey" because, in reality, there are (likely) no monkeys involved.



You have clearly missed the mark...."Spank the monkey" is a humorus term that depicts the very "real" act of masturbating.   Where "out here" the term "Slavery" defines a relationship created by two consenting adults....hardly the same thing...Hardly "slavery."  ....Apples and Oranges.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 4/2/2009 4:37:03 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 75
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 4:52:45 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		I realize where I am...Bdsm site.   I realize I could just as easily be on Gor.  I realize that many people often want to romanticize their lives to become something more than they are.  To live the day dream; The slaviest of slaves for example.  Just because I am on a bdsm site doesn't change my reality or the concept of reality. 

I am on the space station.  I really think that I am on the space station...If I step outside there is nothing but a vacuum.  Nothingness, no oxygen and a certain death.  When I step out of my space station/bathroom I am greeted by electric light and a breathable atmosphere.  The reality of the space station meant nothing.  All that it shows that I am prone and have the ability to accept a fictional set of rules or perhaps my nonfiction life is not what was envisioned. Can I really set aside the knowledge that there is a breathable atmospere outside my space station? 

You question some of the foundations of this thang and you get some fairly pissed off responses.  We are obviously supposed to accept this "all" with a grain of salt and never to question what could be some of the underlying motivations or conditions that might lead someone to be able to accept a set of fictitious framings.

< Message edited by domiguy -- 4/2/2009 4:53:36 PM >

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RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 5:04:24 PM   
MasterDarkSadist


Posts: 60
Joined: 6/17/2008
Status: offline 		The way that I see it is this;  If you live it, it is real.  It does not require governmental approval for it to be any more or less real. 

Murder is not endorsed by the government, however it is real.
Contracts are deemed null and void all the time by the courts, even in instances where they may have been legally acceptable.
Laws are overturned, even though they were created and passed by the very government that overturned them.
Need I go on?

(in reply to InTonguesslut)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 5:08:50 PM   
kidwithknife


Posts: 193
Joined: 9/9/2008
Status: offline 		Part of the issue for me is the counterposing of "reality" and "fantasy".  I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive.

_____________________________

We went to see the fall of Rome - I thought it would please us
To watch how the mighty go in a blaze of hubris
But I just stood there hypnotised by all the beautiful madness

(New Model Army, Into the Wind)

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Profile   Post #: 78
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 5:18:23 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kidwithknife

Part of the issue for me is the counterposing of "reality" and "fantasy".  I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive.


You are entirely correct...I have heard of kids that were enthralled with the game "Dungeons and Dragons"...Seemed that many grew up and found CM...lol.

While some still enjoy the momentary escape of a "fiction vacation." others choose to make it their "reality." 

You ain't doing no one any harm there really isn't that big of deal...But even though this a bdsm thingamajig sometimes you gotsta call it as you see it. Is this thing just kind of fucked up?

We could get into a ren faire thread, vampire thread, ghost and demon thread, erotic fantasy literature.  There is a pile of shit out here that is built on escapism.  just seems a little odd.

I am alone on my space station.

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Profile   Post #: 79
RE: Reality or fantasy? - 4/2/2009 5:20:41 PM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
that wasn't directed at you, InTonguesslut...it was directed at the folks who come here and either knowingly or ignorantly disparage and dismiss other's relationships and what they do within the confines of those relationships (specifically Master/slave relationships) by using definitions that are completely out of context...given where we are (a BDSM messagae board) and the specific subject matter (Master/slave dynamic relationships) we are discussing.


In fact, it's obvious now that you are not willing to discuss any of this openly, unless it's with people that agree with your conception of things - that's your prerogative. I didn't see your relationship dismissed, or disparaged but it's your right, of course, to feel this way. It's also others' prerogative to discuss this with other people: after all, you're not the subject of this thread personally, neither do you hold the universal truth when it comes to any of this. None of us do.


exactly how did this slave infer unwillingness to discuss "any of this" or belief that this thread is about her relationship personally, or that this slave holds any universal truths that others aren't privvy to?

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 80
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