RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom?

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LadyPact -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 7:47:51 AM)
Juliet, That's why the solution that I offered avoids the gossip issue. There's no whispering to new people to 'warn' about the person in question. It's relating why you will no longer attend. I see that as having the courage of your convictions. I did forget this one thing. Yes, I actually do believe in the orientation idea, for both genders and both sides of the kneel. Because, yes, there are people of all kinds who can be manipulative, abusive, and any other descriptor that can be applied. They will continue to be so as long as it's tolerated and people are uneducated enough not to watch for it.

julietsierra -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 7:59:08 AM)
I don't think it's any more "sexist" than people disbelieving a man has been abused simply because he's a man. We are so overwhelming wrapped up in the whole dominants and submissives thing that we forget that people are people and some are not the most upright. Even those close to me forgot that little fact. And it's sad. But what it did do was point out to me that there's no one who is going to watch out for my best interests better than I can, and sometimes, you just have to walk away. That was hard for me cause when I first got involved in this life, I was divorcing my husband and had moved back to my home town. However, any friends I had there had moved away and so ALL the friends I made were involved in this life. For me to walk away meant I was no longer able to go to the things I'd been enjoying for years. These places were my evening out amongst adults and it was where people I counted as friends and I could meet. And giving all that up was difficult to say the least. What I learned is that the real friends I had remained my friends and those who weren't really - didn't. Not a bad lesson to have learned. But that's how I've attempted to deal with this for myself. juliet

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:07:17 AM)
True. If a man complained about being sexually harassed he would probably be laughed at.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:08:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: julietsierra They finally banned him. I'm not of the mind to attempt to educate at all. Others are... I understand their rationale. I just don't subscribe to it. juliet It's an action that was long overdue and it is one that should provide no reprieve. I don't understand the rationale of people who still feel that a person, who has ignored previous talks concerning their transgressions regarding protocol and personal behaviour towards people in their company/charge, found themselves banned, and not just once either, still feel such people can be 'reasoned' with despite all efforts and actions proving the contrary. It is this part that has me exasperated (I'm sure I'm not alone) and the good intentions of those which have unwittingly continued to enable this person. Something else I wanted to add: It isn't just the good nature of people that continue to believe that a person can be reasoned with despite evidence to the contrary, it's the enablement of submissives' own dominants, those who have continued to take their charges to these events/parties knowing this man will has not been given a permanent ban and given them platitudes of, "It'll be fine, I'll be there." This reflects poorly on all involved in this community who have contributed to this situation - it isn't a one-man show.

julietsierra -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:12:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissMorrigan quote: ORIGINAL: julietsierra They finally banned him. I'm not of the mind to attempt to educate at all. Others are... I understand their rationale. I just don't subscribe to it. juliet It's an action that was long overdue and it is one that should provide no reprieve. I don't understand the rationale of people who still feel that a person, who has ignored previous talks concerning their transgressions regarding protocol and personal behaviour towards people in their company/charge, found themselves banned, and not just once either, still feel such people can be 'reasoned' with despite all efforts and actions proving the contrary. It is this part that has me exasperated (I'm sure I'm not alone) and the good intentions of those which have unwittingly continued to enable this person. I agree. And I'd further state that this is a case of misplaced compassion and that, like others have said, the banning is probably the one thing that will bring home to him the things people have been saying for years - kind of a "tough love" approach at the very least. I liken it to AA and having to hit rock bottom (something someone else has already said as well) before being able to see what's happening. And even then, there are people who just don't, can't, or won't see what they've caused. juliet

LadyPact -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:13:47 AM)
Juliet, I do understand. It would be a tough choice for Me, too. I love My community. I love My play time. Heck, I just plain love My social time with them. It would be hard to just cut that out of My life. Like you, I would still have to make that choice. It would come down to being part of the solution or being part of the problem. I'm not familiar with the scene there, but I've always gotten the impression that it's rather large. I hope you folks have some sigs up there. Maybe even ones that are specifically for female submissives for support, education, and social interaction. I'm actually a firm believer in special interest groups.

RCdc -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:14:07 AM)
Not in response to Lady Pact, but a FR I am simply at a loss with you all. One minute someones asking what can be done with a serial manipulator/abuser. Then another is saying that they want to go 'though proper authority channels' ? And yet you want to all protect those vulnerable coming in who don't know him. These are the same people posting to posters that you can't save people. Firstly, you cannot protect everyone. You shouldn't even be trying. What you should be doing is protecting what you support and if that means attending your own groups and the groups that have banned him, that's it. Don't attend the groups he runs. Don't attend the stuff he helps out at. When you are asked why, you explain that you do not feel safe /whatever reason. Period. You don't have to name names. You just have to get the idea out there that you are not going to support his behaviour and that means not supporting the groups he attends. Start your fricking own. All the bloody threads on off topic about obama vs mccain, and you all still don't get it? What was the most powerful weapon? Facts and support or 'he did this - he does that' threads? New people aren't that stupid. That don't need nor deserve such protection. If a group is full of people who have been around awile, they will believe that it has some credence and standing and that the people running it have support. If they go to a group that consists of lots of new people, they will wonder why there is no ongoing support from more stable, longterm groups and go to them instead. Those that don't are going to be too stupid to take your warnings or help on board anyway and still end up in trouble. Stop supporting his actions. You don't have to bury him in the process, Just allow him to dig his own grave - unless you are willing to go further and call in the real and factual authority channels, not the perceived domly ones. Some corners me in a room, I scream like a woman possessed until someone else comes. Been there, done that. Someone lays a hand on me, I do what BSB suggested - very loudly. All else fails, I call the police on their ass. End of. I belong to Darcy, the guy wouldn't even make it as far as getting me alone, but that doesn't mean I lose my common sense. the.dark.

InTonguesslut -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:22:11 AM)
~GR~ I've just read this entire thread through curiosity arisen from another thread. To be honest i just find the whole thing hilarious. How many times do we read an op and then say to them that we would be interested to hear the other side of the story? Many many times and yet when a respected well known poster is addressed in this manner it becomes a high school drama and how dare we suggest that there are two sides to ever story. I'm rather fond of the saying that there are always three truths, your's mine and the actual truth. To then turn this into a debate about there being sexism in some of the male dominants responses is just ludicrous. They are asking for proof just as we do in many threads all the time. In many cases we take things at face value but this is one of those times even i would ask for proof before going as far as to ban someone. The original op had no actual experience of this guy, just hear say and gossip. Later first hand experience was added but again although a douche bag the serious accusations such as date rape are still only alleged.

LadyPact -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:25:26 AM)
the.dark., Heck, I don't mind that reply coming after Mine. It's rather sound advice.

MissMorrigan -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:26:18 AM)
Yes, Juliet, and how often do we say 'consistency is the key' to teaching someone? I'm not going to continue referring to the person in the OP b/c to be honest, it's a much wider issue regarding situations of this kind but there seems to be a distinct inconsistency generally regarding regulations enforced especially where private venues are concerned.

julietsierra -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:26:56 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: InTonguesslut ~GR~ I've just read this entire thread through curiosity arisen from another thread. To be honest i just find the whole thing hilarious. How many times do we read an op and then say to them that we would be interested to hear the other side of the story? Many many times and yet when a respected well known poster is addressed in this manner it becomes a high school drama and how dare we suggest that there are two sides to ever story. I'm rather fond of the saying that there are always three truths, your's mine and the actual truth. To then turn this into a debate about there being sexism in some of the male dominants responses is just ludicrous. They are asking for proof just as we do in many threads all the time. In many cases we take things at face value but this is one of those times even i would ask for proof before going as far as to ban someone. The original op had no actual experience of this guy, just hear say and gossip. Later first hand experience was added but again although a douche bag the serious accusations such as date rape are still only alleged. Hilarity or not, like I said, the banning has been done. All that was asked was what would the male dominants suggest. The rest of this has been an ongoing issue of everyone wanting proof, etc... A few have said that given the information here, banning would have been, in their minds, the only option. Personally, I don't care whether you think we should be calling him the "alleged" or not. He did what he did and finally, steps have been taken at least in some venues, to make sure it doesn't happen there again. I'm glad. juliet

kidwithknife -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:27:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 SO who here like me still think that its unconcious sexism? I mean after all rape victims are raked over the coals. Harrassment charges go unheaded by police as he has to do something before we will get involved. Is it really just about this guys money or the fact that its thefemales word against the man and we need more proof? That goes both ways. Why does being a female (or a submissive) mean you need to go to the BDSM 'authorities'? Why doesn't everyone take responsibility for sorting out these kind of problems, regardless of sex or orientation? Quite honestly, even if everyone just took responsibility for backing up those in their immediate social circle (which is what I do. I have neither the ability nor the inclination to act as some kind of 'enforcer' in the community as a whole) these problems would be minimised. Too many people see it as someone else's job. Because, honestly, I've been in a similar situation to the one described in the OP, although less serious. A particular dom wouldn't leave a female sub friend of mine alone, despite her repeated polite requests to do so. And it was sorted, without bloodshed. But also without having to ask other people to sort it out on our behalf or worrying about the effect it might have on our social standing within the scene. (Very few of my crowd care, thankfully). And it took ten minutes to resolve as opposed to ten years.

julietsierra -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:28:11 AM)
MissMorrigan: yes, it does seem that way doesn't it? juliet

InTonguesslut -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:33:34 AM)
quote: Personally, I don't care whether you think we should be calling him the "alleged" or not. He did what he did and finally, steps have been taken at least in some venues, to make sure it doesn't happen there again. I called him the alleged, never said he SHOULD be called that. Unfortuntaely though whether you like it or not i don't know you or anyone else in this thread making claims on what he did. For all i know it could just be a case of noone likes the guy. Strangely i believe what you and lady hib and others have said and agree he should be banned but that does not mean everyone else has to. It doesnt even mean they have to believe a word any of you have said.

LadyPact -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 8:48:10 AM)
This isn't especially in response to anyone, but does have something to do with MissM's comment. Folks. Yes, all folks. Male, female, D, s, or any other category that you feel you fit into. There is something that hasn't been said yet on this thread that we're not going over. You are your community! Every group you belong to, every club you attend, you are saying with your voice that you are accepting of what's happening there. I'm not saying you have to like everyone and I'm not saying that everyone's kink has to match. What I'm saying is, you have to look at the standard of conduct within, and decide if it's acceptable to you or not. If it isn't, I agree with the.dark. Start your own. Put together sigs and set up discussion munches. What's the worst that can happen? That maybe no one else will show and you read a book over coffee? That sounds a heck of a lot better to Me than tolerating some situation for ten years.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 9:18:58 AM)
quote: And it's because we've all - you and me and everyone else - cultivated an environment where it was possible for this to happen. everyone? it seems to this slave the ones helping creating an environment where predators roam free without repercussion are most likely the ones that use the community as some sort of dirty little secret. they have jobs or spouses or families or offspring that would be profoundly, negatively affected by their association with the community, so it's ALL on the down-low. do you honestly think all predators are stupid...that they don't PLAN to be where the prey, with weaknesses, gather? of course you aren't going to report a rape if you believe your evil ex-husband will use the fact that you were raped at a BDSM club as some sort of proof that you are unfit to raise your offspring. who would blame you? and the smart predator knows that. or that your unsuspecting spouse would divorce you because you weren't even supposed to be there, you were supposed to be working late...etc.,etc....the smart predator knows that, too. it doesn't make it ok, just like walking home alone down a dim-light alley doesn't make it ok for anyone to rob you, but predators just LOVE that extortion shit, just like robbers love that dim-lit alley. not all predators are stupid and get caught. some are very smart and work the fringes where they won't be reported. folks with something to lose by being outed that they are involved in the local community create a perfect environment for the predator you folks have been describing. plenty of folks to extort. folks that would report his behavior to the proper authorities are those who should be held up with respect and esteem in your community. folks that say nothing to save their own ass have just as much disrespect for their "community" and the safety of newbies as the predator. perhaps they should be banned as well.

kidwithknife -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 10:03:45 AM)
I can at least sympathise with those who don't say anything because they're protecting themselves from actual ramifications to stuff that matters (family, job etc.). It might not be particuarly noble, but it's understandable. Apart from anything else, I see no evidence that the community will actually help out in material terms if people are outed. Those who say nothing because of how it might be taken within the community itself, I have less sympathy for. If you're prepared to sacrifice your integrity for popularity, then I have nothing but contempt to offer.

MasterDarkSadist -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:57:29 PM)
This sounds like a bit of a two sided story, with only one side being told. I feel drama (I could be wrong), and all that. Here is the only solution that is appropriate: Sit him down, and tell him what you have seen. Tell him why you "think" what he is doing is inappropriate, and why (have a logical train of thought). He will either follow your advice, or he won't. Nothing you can do past that point. If there is something else behind this post (which I kinda get the impression due to the wording...and follow up posts), then maybe you should talk to an outside person, and explain your position, and ask for some help (but this requires you to be brutally honest about your standings in this situation, and why you are involved). Usually, the bad ones weed themselves out in due time. Sure, they are annoying while they are there, but after a while, word just gets around and they get lost (because the well has run dry). Sorry, but you can't fix everyone, or every thing to your liking, that's just life.

GreedyTop -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:59:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterDarkSadist This sounds like a bit of a two sided story, with only one side being told. I feel drama (I could be wrong),Yes, you are and all that. Here is the only solution that is appropriate: Sit him down, and tell him what you have seen. Tell him why you "think" what he is doing is inappropriate, and why (have a logical train of thought). He will either follow your advice, or he won't. Nothing you can do past that point. It's been done If there is something else behind this post (which I kinda get the impression due to the wording...and follow up posts), then maybe you should talk to an outside person, and explain your position, and ask for some help (but this requires you to be brutally honest about your standings in this situation, and why you are involved). Usually, the bad ones weed themselves out in due time. Sure, they are annoying while they are there, but after a while, word just gets around and they get lost (because the well has run dry). Sorry, but you can't fix everyone, or every thing to your liking, that's just life. The only thing 'behind this post' was asking for advice on how male doms would deal with this situation.

julietsierra -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 6:11:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MasterDarkSadist Here is the only solution that is appropriate: Sit him down, and tell him what you have seen. We did that. quote: Tell him why you "think" what he is doing is inappropriate, and why (have a logical train of thought). We did that too - on many occasions quote: then maybe you should talk to an outside person, and explain your position, and ask for some help (but this requires you to be brutally honest about your standings in this situation, and why you are involved). Believe it or not, this was done as well. But thank you for offering some suggestions - from a male dominant's point of view. juliet

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