RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom?

RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (Full Version)

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colouredin -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:20:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Maybe you glossed over a large majority of this thread but There were 3 people from that group who came here.2 witnesses and one with first hand experience as a submissive harassed by him. Again what does a person need that a submissives reports are taken seriously? And people wonder why most rape and harrassment is not reported. To be fair, its a long thread, people will dip in and out, also a website isnt really the place to report abuse its to the police, they get to see both sides of the story dont they. Not that I am questioning the validity of any of the accusations I just think that side of it really should be reported rather than bought here.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:24:04 AM)
quote: Edited to add: assuming it's acknowledged that people get it wrong from time-to-time, and it's accepted that many of us like the idea of power and being in a position to make decisions, and it's accepted that sometimes we act out of self-interest; then I'd hope that people would remember this before deciding he's a witch and drowning the bloke. Imagine the shoe was on the other foot - presumably you'd expect a fair trial including a fair assessment of the evidence based on reason as opposed to group politics? No these groups are not open to the public at large and are membership based. You dont have to prove anything to ban someone. Just as here, with Moderators and TOS. For the betterment of the group some are banned. Fair not fair, thats the way it is and should remain. If there is enough complaints i would take things seriously. Its not a criminal case.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:26:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Maybe you glossed over a large majority of this thread but There were 3 people from that group who came here.2 witnesses and one with first hand experience as a submissive harassed by him. Again what does a person need that a submissives reports are taken seriously? And people wonder why most rape and harrassment is not reported. To be fair, its a long thread, people will dip in and out, also a website isnt really the place to report abuse its to the police, they get to see both sides of the story dont they. Not that I am questioning the validity of any of the accusations I just think that side of it really should be reported rather than bought here. Nobody was reporting abuse. The Op came to ask if people thought the offender could be turned around.

NorthernGent -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:34:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Maybe you glossed over a large majority of this thread but There were 3 people from that group who came here.2 witnesses and one with first hand experience as a submissive harassed by him. Again what does a person need that a submissives reports are taken seriously? And people wonder why most rape and harrassment is not reported. I'm all for people getting a fair crack of the whip, but to answer your question I'd hope there'd be some evidence of more than simply someone coming on to someone else. For me, I wouldn't jump to conclusions, regardless of the strength of the reputation of those making the claims; a strong reputation is not the same as evidence. What exactly is the 'harassment' you mention?

kidwithknife -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:35:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Edited to add: 'reminds me of being 12 at school....."Sir, Sally told Anne that I haven't started wearing a bra, but she's lying cos I'm a C cup, and I can't stop crying. It's not fair!!! Can you scratch her eyes out for me?" Surely no more than "we can't not invite Billy to the party even though none of us like him!" I'm uncovinced of the premise that people choosing not to socialise with someone is on the same level as sending dissidents to the gulag, I'll be honest.

NorthernGent -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:38:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 No these groups are not open to the public at large and are membership based. You dont have to prove anything to ban someone. Just as here, with Moderators and TOS. For the betterment of the group some are banned. Fair not fair, thats the way it is and should remain. If there is enough complaints i would take things seriously. Its not a criminal case. Yes, I'm aware that you don't have to prove anything to ban someone in that type of group, which would work perfectly in a fantasy world where people are virtuous human beings, who are always fair and always make the right decisions.

colouredin -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:40:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Nobody was reporting abuse. The Op came to ask if people thought the offender could be turned around. Sorry just what you said took on the angle of reporting abuse. I agree thats what the OP said, and if someone was to read just the OP and then write then its fair to say that people will say just leave it, just as I did earlier in the thread. When the nature of the guy was divulged more it seemed to me to become more of a legal issue.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:46:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 No these groups are not open to the public at large and are membership based. You dont have to prove anything to ban someone. Just as here, with Moderators and TOS. For the betterment of the group some are banned. Fair not fair, thats the way it is and should remain. If there is enough complaints i would take things seriously. Its not a criminal case. Yes, I'm aware that you don't have to prove anything to ban someone in that type of group, which would work perfectly in a fantasy world where people are virtuous human beings, who are always fair and always make the right decisions. In criminal cases in the US the standard is beyond a resonable doubt. For civil cases its beyound a perponderance of the evidence. That is how OH SImpson was found not guilty in a criminal trial but guilty of the civil one.

WyldHrt -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:47:15 AM)
quote: For me, I wouldn't jump to conclusions, regardless of the strength of the reputation of those making the claims; a strong reputation is not the same as evidence. Just how many "someones" have to complain before you would listen, NG? Have you really read this thread? You strengthen Lushy's stance with every post, and perhaps clarify why this person's unacceptable behaviour continued for a decade before being acted on.

NorthernGent -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:53:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kidwithknife quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Edited to add: 'reminds me of being 12 at school....."Sir, Sally told Anne that I haven't started wearing a bra, but she's lying cos I'm a C cup, and I can't stop crying. It's not fair!!! Can you scratch her eyes out for me?" Surely no more than "we can't not invite Billy to the party even though none of us like him!" I'm uncovinced of the premise that people choosing not to socialise with someone is on the same level as sending dissidents to the gulag, I'll be honest. The Bolsheviks held a patent on virtuous behaviour. Shame they didn't examine their claims for their self-proclaimed virtuosity. Yeah, by all means, ban people for lying; but in the interests of parity do examine your own conduct and ask yourself whether you're wandering around meeting other people's expectations of your conduct. I suppose the leaders of the house make the rules based on their moral code, and it's up to everyone else to fall in line. Fair enough if you like that sort of thing. But then, that's power isn't it - "we have the answers, come and do it our way".

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:54:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Nobody was reporting abuse. The Op came to ask if people thought the offender could be turned around. Sorry just what you said took on the angle of reporting abuse. I agree thats what the OP said, and if someone was to read just the OP and then write then its fair to say that people will say just leave it, just as I did earlier in the thread. When the nature of the guy was divulged more it seemed to me to become more of a legal issue. Its not a legal issue to converse about someone when his name is ommitted. I have even talked about clients before."I had a client that Blah blah blah" to illistrate something to a class am teaching. Its called anedotes. So when people are talking about someone its anecdodal evidence but when eyewitnesses and victims come forward, its no longer anecdotal.

colouredin -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:56:10 AM)
I didnt mean talking about it is a legal issue, I mean that the guy needs to be reported to the police, thats what I would do and let them decide.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:58:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin I didnt mean talking about it is a legal issue, I mean that the guy needs to be reported to the police, thats what I would do and let them decide. But just because there is not enough evidence to convict the guy or people wont report it to the police doesnt meanit shouldnt be dealt with by the group.People in this group have professional jobs. They are not going to report BDSM activities to the police and get raked over the coals for thir activities. You should know that.

NorthernGent -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 4:58:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 In criminal cases in the US the standard is beyond a resonable doubt. For civil cases its beyound a perponderance of the evidence. Sounds reasonable to me. If you can post your evidence and why it's beyond reasonable doubt, then it can be examined.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:01:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 In criminal cases in the US the standard is beyond a resonable doubt. For civil cases its beyound a perponderance of the evidence. Sounds reasonable to me. If you can post your evidence and why it's beyond reasonable doubt, then it can be examined. I think 2 eyewitnesses and a victim of the person is plenty of evidenc. But this would be a propnderance of the evidence and he is not being taken tocourt. being that people have [professional jobs like accoounting, teaching etc, it doesnt get reported due to the stigma attached to the activities. This doesnt mean it will or should be tolerated by the group.

colouredin -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:03:03 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin I didnt mean talking about it is a legal issue, I mean that the guy needs to be reported to the police, thats what I would do and let them decide. But just because there is not enough evidence to convict the guy or people wont report it to the police doesnt meanit shouldnt be dealt with by the group.People in this group have professional jobs. They are not going to report BDSM activities to the police and get raked over the coals for thir activities. You should know that. Umm I think harassment is harassment no matter where its done. I mean there was recently a guy in the UK 'scene' who harassed women, no one reported it and sadly he killed someone. I think I would risk reporting it to be honest (also the police have been really good at keeping the womans orientation out of the papers) Yeah maybe they should deal with it as a group, but maybe this guy will just move to another group, another area where people dont know about him.

NorthernGent -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:04:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: WyldHrt Just how many "someones" have to complain before you would listen, NG? One where evidence of a serious issue exists. A thousand someones would have my attention, but where the claims are lacking evidence or are run-of-the-mill stuff , then I wouldn't be convinced. I did go back and read the thread, and read something like: "he came onto me giving me the come to Jesus". Well, I'd guess that in such a club people do attempt to chat people up. As said, I'm all for a fair crack of the whip, so if you can summarise the evidence, then I'd consider it and give you my opinion.

NorthernGent -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:06:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 I think 2 eyewitnesses and a victim of the person is plenty of evidenc. Ok. A victim of date rape coming forward? A claim is not sufficient without supporting evidence. Where the evidence exists, then of course he should be jailed. Two eye-witnesses to what exactly?

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:06:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 In criminal cases in the US the standard is beyond a resonable doubt. For civil cases its beyound a perponderance of the evidence. Sounds reasonable to me. If you can post your evidence and why it's beyond reasonable doubt, then it can be examined. When did you become the grand puba of guilt or innocence of this person? Are you his defense attorney? NG.... DM of group such and such BDSM group. A dominant female and a submissive in the group witness a wrong doing they come to you to report it. One sub comes to you crying over the doms misdeads. Then another sub and Her dominant come forward to complain about his harrassment of her. She is reporting it and her Dominant(maybe you will take it more seriously of a man complains) has witnessed it. Is this enough evidence for you?

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:08:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 I think 2 eyewitnesses and a victim of the person is plenty of evidenc. Ok. A victim of date rape coming forward? A claim is not sufficient without supporting evidence. Where the evidence exists, then of course he should be jailed. Two eye-witnesses to what exactly? This is not a rape trial.

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