RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom?

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kidwithknife -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:12:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent The Bolsheviks held a patent on virtuous behaviour. Shame they didn't examine their claims for their self-proclaimed virtuosity. Yeah, by all means, ban people for lying; but in the interests of parity do examine your own conduct and ask yourself whether you're wandering around meeting other people's expectations of your conduct. I suppose the leaders of the house make the rules based on their moral code, and it's up to everyone else to fall in line. Fair enough if you like that sort of thing. But then, that's power isn't it - "we have the answers, come and do it our way". Quite honestly, I don't see why it even has to be as serious as "lying". I'm perfectly comfortable with "I just don't like the guy" as a reason for excluding someone. Very few events are run by paid professionals. Therefore, not inviting someone is no different than choosing not to invite someone you don't like to the pub with you. That's really what confuses me about the OP. I still don't understand why everyone sat on their hands for ten years. And I certainly don't grasp why you can't just tell the guy to "fuck off".

NorthernGent -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:12:37 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 A dominant female and a submissive in the group witness a wrong doing they come to you to report it. I'd want to know the details of the 'wrong-doing', before deciding what to do. What happened? quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 One sub comes to you crying over the doms misdeads. Again, I'd want to know the details and I'd want to know if there were first hand witnesses. What happened? Were there first-hand witnesses? quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 Then another sub and Her dominant come forward to complain about his harrassment of her. Seems there's a first hand witness in this case, but what exactly happened?

NorthernGent -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:14:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 I think 2 eyewitnesses and a victim of the person is plenty of evidenc. Ok. A victim of date rape coming forward? A claim is not sufficient without supporting evidence. Where the evidence exists, then of course he should be jailed. Two eye-witnesses to what exactly? This is not a rape trial. It was mentioned in the OP as one of the issues put forward against this bloke. Regardless of how strongly you feel about this, no evidence = no 'wrong-doing'.

mistoferin -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:15:23 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent I did go back and read the thread, and read something like: "he came onto me giving me the come to Jesus". Well, I'd guess that in such a club people do attempt to chat people up. Ok, hold the phone. I'm the only one in this thread that said anything about "Come to Jesus" and it wasn't he that said anything about it. I said that I myself had had a "Come to Jesus" conversation with the man and what that meant is that I had a conversation with the man to tell him in no uncertain terms that his behavior was inappropriate, was NOT appreciated and would NOT be tolerated by me.

NorthernGent -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:17:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kidwithknife Quite honestly, I don't see why it even has to be as serious as "lying". I'm perfectly comfortable with "I just don't like the guy" as a reason for excluding someone. As it's your place, it's your call. I can respect an upfront position that you simply don't like someone, far more than some venture into the moral high ground (unless of course there is evidence of a serious issue). Edited for clarity.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:17:34 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: colouredin I didnt mean talking about it is a legal issue, I mean that the guy needs to be reported to the police, thats what I would do and let them decide. But just because there is not enough evidence to convict the guy or people wont report it to the police doesnt meanit shouldnt be dealt with by the group.People in this group have professional jobs. They are not going to report BDSM activities to the police and get raked over the coals for thir activities. You should know that. Umm I think harassment is harassment no matter where its done. I mean there was recently a guy in the UK 'scene' who harassed women, no one reported it and sadly he killed someone. I think I would risk reporting it to be honest (also the police have been really good at keeping the womans orientation out of the papers) Yeah maybe they should deal with it as a group, but maybe this guy will just move to another group, another area where people dont know about him. Well NG's stance maybe an indication of why harassment is not taken seriously. Unfortunately many wont act until its too late.

NorthernGent -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:21:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Ok, hold the phone. I'm the only one in this thread that said anything about "Come to Jesus" and it wasn't he that said anything about it. I said that I myself had had a "Come to Jesus" conversation with the man and what that meant is that I had a conversation with the man to tell him in no uncertain terms that his behavior was inappropriate, was NOT appreciated and would NOT be tolerated by me. My mistake - getting hold of the wrong end of the stick. I trawled the thread for the evidence and couldn't see a great deal apart from this. I dont know the bloke - he could be anything for all I know. My only contention is that a thread that begins with a character assassination, should be open to a request for details.

colouredin -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:21:51 AM)
Well at the end of the day the people involved have to do what they feel comfortable with, none seem swayed by anyone saying that this guy may be ok, they seem really concerned that he could be dangerous, they have to let their moral code lead them

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:24:42 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent quote: ORIGINAL: mistoferin Ok, hold the phone. I'm the only one in this thread that said anything about "Come to Jesus" and it wasn't he that said anything about it. I said that I myself had had a "Come to Jesus" conversation with the man and what that meant is that I had a conversation with the man to tell him in no uncertain terms that his behavior was inappropriate, was NOT appreciated and would NOT be tolerated by me. My mistake - getting hold of the wrong end of the stick. I trawled the thread for the evidence and couldn't see a great deal apart from this. I dont know the bloke - he could be anything for all I know. My only contention is that a thread that begins with a character assassination, should be open to a request for details. So Juliets first post on the thread wasnt evidence to you? I mean you said you read this thread? The guys character is not being assasinated. We havent mentioned any names.

sirsholly -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:26:55 AM)
Lushy...i think he want to see a video on CNN...and even then, coming from a lowly submissive, he would have doubts

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:32:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly Lushy...i think he want to see a video on CNN...and even then, coming from a lowly submissive, he would have doubts Nah, comingfrom a male submissive would probably hold some weight.

colouredin -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:39:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly Lushy...i think he want to see a video on CNN...and even then, coming from a lowly submissive, he would have doubts Nah, comingfrom a male submissive would probably hold some weight. I dont think thats fair, I have never seen any indication that NG is sexist to be honest.

sirsholly -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:45:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly Lushy...i think he want to see a video on CNN...and even then, coming from a lowly submissive, he would have doubts Nah, comingfrom a male submissive would probably hold some weight. i don't really have that impression

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:56:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly Lushy...i think he want to see a video on CNN...and even then, coming from a lowly submissive, he would have doubts Nah, comingfrom a male submissive would probably hold some weight. i don't really have that impression SO manybe he just wouldnt listen to anyone until someone was being injured in front of him?

NorthernGent -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 5:56:34 AM)
Luscious, Yes, I missed this. So, there are some further details posted by Juliet. it's the new girls that he focuses on. Nearly every submissive woman I know has their own personal story – things they have direct knowledge of – things they have experienced themselves. Some of the stories are difficult to hear. Some are simply that of a pest that won’t leave them alone. And some are of people (like me) who when new, were scared to death of this person because he Just. Will. Not. Stop. Ever. And frankly, most of what he does is not prosecutable - at least in my experience. “Has anyone ever had problems with harassment at public parties.” No names were mentioned; no details were provided prior to asking this question. And out of a room full of women, only 2 did not raise their hands as having had this happen. The women were shocked. They looked back and forth to each other and finally a name was spoken. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE WOMEN WHO HAD THEIR HANDS RAISED NODDED BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT THE SAME PERSON. And yes, I was there and yes, I had my hand raised as well, so this is not just a story told second or third hand. But when he started to push for more – and would NEVER take no for an answer, I realized that what I was thinking was “gossip” was actually people’s real experiences. When he started following me to my car without me ever asking for an escort even though I’d said that I didn’t want and/or need one, when no matter what I said or did, he wouldn’t back off… that’s when I realized that there was more to the stories than simply gossip or blackballing. juliet In terms of what he's actually done, I think the only detail posted here is that he followed someone to the car. I'm not saying there aren't more details, but that's all that is posted. Assuming there are further details of relentlessly pestering women, supported by various women with first hand experience, then yes, ban him. Not particularly because women can't handle themselves, but because this bloke must be a total pain in the arse to all concerned. I would have thought it would have been an obvious course of action in the face of countless numbers of women who are being pressurised relentlessly. I mean, I'm amazed that this would be tolerated for longer than a day in the face of such evidence.

lusciouslips19 -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 6:00:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent Luscious, Yes, I missed this. So, there are some further details posted by Juliet. it's the new girls that he focuses on. Nearly every submissive woman I know has their own personal story – things they have direct knowledge of – things they have experienced themselves. Some of the stories are difficult to hear. Some are simply that of a pest that won’t leave them alone. And some are of people (like me) who when new, were scared to death of this person because he Just. Will. Not. Stop. Ever. And frankly, most of what he does is not prosecutable - at least in my experience. “Has anyone ever had problems with harassment at public parties.” No names were mentioned; no details were provided prior to asking this question. And out of a room full of women, only 2 did not raise their hands as having had this happen. The women were shocked. They looked back and forth to each other and finally a name was spoken. EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THE WOMEN WHO HAD THEIR HANDS RAISED NODDED BECAUSE THEY WERE ALL TALKING ABOUT THE SAME PERSON. And yes, I was there and yes, I had my hand raised as well, so this is not just a story told second or third hand. But when he started to push for more – and would NEVER take no for an answer, I realized that what I was thinking was “gossip” was actually people’s real experiences. When he started following me to my car without me ever asking for an escort even though I’d said that I didn’t want and/or need one, when no matter what I said or did, he wouldn’t back off… that’s when I realized that there was more to the stories than simply gossip or blackballing. juliet In terms of what he's actually done, I think the only detail posted here is that he followed someone to the car. I'm not saying there aren't more details, but that's all that is posted. Assuming there are further details of relentlessly pestering women, supported by various women with first hand experience, then yes, ban him. Not particularly because women can't handle themselves, but because this bloke must be a total pain in the arse to all concerned. I would have thought it would have been an obvious course of action in the face of countless numbers of women who are being pressurised relentlessly. I mean, I'm amazed that this would be tolerated for longer than a day in the face of such evidence. See Ng this is why I was perplexed by your retortes. You said you read it. So the info is there and this is not a criminal case but if someone is causesing this much fear and annoyance...I'm glad you understand now.

mistoferin -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 6:01:45 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NorthernGent My only contention is that a thread that begins with a character assassination, should be open to a request for details. This thread was not written to assassinate anyone's character. The details that were given were given to provide background. The thread was started (check the title of the thread) to ask how to help this dominant. The "details" of the incidents are personal to the people involved. Why is it that you feel it necessary to know the juicy details in order to answer the question of "we have a problem Dom and these are some of the types of things that have occurred as an example, how can I help him to make positive changes so this shit stops happening?"? In this thread you were asked a question. You were not asked to intercede, prosecute or enforce anything. Just to offer advice. The people involved's personal details are irrelevant in anything more than a "these are the types of incidents" way in order to be able to offer advice. Quite frankly they aren't your business. You want details? I won't give you the details of other people's incidents...but I will give you mine. This man attended a function I was at. We sat far apart all night....but not so far that he couldn't have known that I was a member of that particular group. It was the end of the night and I went up to the bar to get my tab. He came up behind me and decided to introduce himself to me by putting his arm around my back and slid his hand below my arm and cupped my breast in his hand. When I turned to twist away from that grasp he kissed me right on the mouth, hand still firmly cupping me. I had to literally take his hand in my own and remove it. Hence, the "Come to Jesus" conversation that I had with him....which of course during it he was very apologetic and said that he "didn't realize" that he "accidently" touched my breast and that he was "very sorry" and "would never intentionally take such a liberty". I did not know the man at the time, nor was I aware that this type of behavior was common for him. Had I known that at the time the conversation that I had with him would likely have been much stronger and louder. Was that a legally prosecutable offense? Yes, actually it is. But to be honest it wasn't something that I felt would result in some great emotional scar for me. It wasn't something that even intimidated me. I've met a lot of dominants who are too forward in my life and who feel that their position entitles them to take liberties that aren't theirs for the taking. But did it affect me enough that I felt it warranted turning my life upside down and getting myself embroiled in a legal case that would have sucked my very limited personal time and called my activities and involvement in such a group into question? No, it did not. Quite frankly I found him unworthy of such devotion of my time and not worth the hassle. In retrospect, knowing all that I know now....I may have felt and reacted much differently.

julietsierra -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 6:02:50 AM)
Y'know what? Far too many people complained about his activities - whether those reading this thread believe them or not. They didn't get together en masse and complain but did so individually, over time and eventually, even though the people who did finally make the decision to ban tried to give him more than the benefit of the doubt, they came to the realization that they could no longer do so. He was banned. It's a done deal. All of you wanting to see the blood before deciding of his guilt or innocence are pretty much spitting in the wind. He did the deeds and because of that, the deed of banning has been done. All LadyHib did was ask the men around here who call themselves dominants how they might have handled a situation such as this. If you need to go to the hypothetical, then do so. Let's just SAY you are the host of some large event in your local area. And let's just SAY that there's someone within your midst who has countless women all complaining of the same thing, not over a period of weeks, but over a period of years, some of them up to a decade of what appears to be obsession. Let's just SAY that that same individual has been approached on more than one occasion about his behavior and that nothing we might call civil seems to work. (And let's just say that you know this to be true because a decade ago, YOU were one of the ones to have a conversation with this man) And let's just SAY that the women have more to lose by reporting him to the police than they are able to pay? Now what? Now what would you do? And for further entertainment, what would you do if one of those women belonged to YOU? Just when do you believe the submissive? And if you'd believe YOUR submissive/slave, and for the sake of brevity, would do something about it, are you telling me that every other submissive who has related the same general experience should be ignored and pretty much thrown to the wolf you'd believe him to be if YOUR submissive/slave said something? Seriously, rather than argue whether he's guilty or innocent - which I find laughable since most of you who are conducting your own little fact finding tours are miles, states and even countries away - how do YOU propose educating this person so that just PERHAPS, sometime in the future, he just MIGHT be accepted back into the places he's been banned from? That was REALLY all LdyHib was asking you. And since, instead of answering her question, you all wanted to attempt to villify her for DARING to presume that there just might be a reason he'd been banned, I'd like to ask again, just what would YOU do? Personally, given MY history, I'd do absolutely nothing and count it as one of those "it's about damn time!" moments. But hey, I'm not you, and unlike you, I AM dealing with this from a first person point of view. Whether you believe me or not. juliet

sirsholly -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 6:03:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 quote: ORIGINAL: sirsholly Lushy...i think he want to see a video on CNN...and even then, coming from a lowly submissive, he would have doubts Nah, comingfrom a male submissive would probably hold some weight. i don't really have that impression SO manybe he just wouldnt listen to anyone until someone was being injured in front of him? that is the impression i am getting. A SUB has no credibility

NorthernGent -> RE: Male doms--how do you help a problem dom? (4/11/2009 6:04:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19 See Ng this is why I was perplexed by your retortes. You said you read it. So the info is there and this is not a criminal case but if someone is causesing this much fear and annoyance...I'm glad you understand now. It's a long, old thread; it's easy to miss a post. Assuming it's all accurate, I'm amazed that the women haven't sorted it out themselves. I've never come across a group of women who would even begin to stand for that; they'd eat him for breakfast no matter how relentless he is.

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