RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution?

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RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 11:59:46 AM

OrionTheWolf

Posts: 7803
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Actually it is a combination of the two, or in some markets one or the other. The small and medium businesses I consult for have a specific gross profit and net profit they look for. When their net is down, they will look to see if there was in increase in capital expenditures and such. It is more complicated than this, but them are the basics I see and use on a daily basis.

You are correct that if your cost increase, you are not going to sale a gallon of milk for $9, unless everyone else is too.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69
and company's just eat those extra costs right??? duh
the American tax payer ultimately pays the price in higher costs.

Nope. Companies charge based on what the market will bear, not what their costs are.

A common fallacy amongst your ilk, don't feel bad that you fell for it too.

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(in reply to Cagey18)

Post #: 41

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 12:02:48 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

first off teenagers aren't legally allowed to buy cigarettes. They typically steal some from there parents or older siblings.

ANybody think if you raised the price of Pot fewer teenagers would smoke Pot???? what about raise the price on beer that fewer teenagers would get drunk ;) They might start saving there"school lunch money" and use it for beer and pot instead ;)

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9F02E1D8173EF93BA15752C1A9629C8B63
Bills Would Raise Smoking Age to 19
By DONNA KUTT NAHAS Published: November 28, 2004 Photos: At lunch break, students at Lynbrook High finish their cigarettes before returning to school for their afternoon classes. A STATE law that bars minors from buying tobacco has not stopped 15-year-old Brittany DeDonato from smoking. Whenever Brittany, a sophomore at Lynbrook High School, wants to light up, she simply cadges a cigarette from her 18-year-old sister, Amanda. ''They shouldn't smoke, but I smoke, too,'' said Douglas DeDonato, their father, a lifelong smoker who lost a leg to diabetes and circulatory problems. ''They don't understand the consequences of this habit.''

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

how has higher prices stopped people from smoking? ;)
every new tax on them

Uh, they already have. Direct correlation between cigarette prices and sales, especially among teenagers and the poor, the most price-averse groups..

quote:

what about higher prices at fast food places ;)
for ever idiot that spills coffee or decides McDs made them fat.

The coffee jury award was less than a day's profits for McDonald's. Don't tell me you really think that's why fast food prices go up.

quote:

people pay the price because there is no other choice for the product they desire.

Oh really? So if a Starbucks suddenly charged $100 for a Mocha Frappucino, people would pay the price?

Did you ever take a course in Economics?

quote:

Dont ya think its the same with the extra costs related to Kyoto??....it just gets pushed down to the tax payers.

As I mentioned, a fallacy that you've obviously blindly accepted, along with your fellow RWers.

(in reply to Cagey18)

Post #: 42

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 12:05:30 PM

servantforuse

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Joined: 3/8/2006
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The Kyoto treaty would exempt the two biggest polluters in the world, China and India. This would put American businesses at a huge disadvantage. To all of thise tht support the kyoto agreement. Why should these two countries be exempt???

(in reply to Cagey18)

Post #: 43

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 12:10:39 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

yes and before you try to make a strawman argument..... i know the govt doesn't control the price of pot...just using it as an example if that price were to go up kids will still buy it no matter what the price is. Sure there is a limit if you make it a million dollars but lets talk about the world of reality....the prices isn't going that high.

(in reply to MasterShake69)

Post #: 44

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 12:12:02 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
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They cant or wont answer it.....and then they resort to thrashing around launching insults.

quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

The Kyoto treaty would exempt the two biggest polluters in the world, China and India. This would put American businesses at a huge disadvantage. To all of thise tht support the kyoto agreement. Why should these two countries be exempt???

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 45

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 12:15:39 PM

Cagey18

Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

first off teenagers aren't legally allowed to buy cigarettes. They typically steal some from there parents or older siblings.

Newsflash: 18 and 19-year-olds are teenagers. Legally allowed to purchase.
Newsflash: Even teenagers under 18 find a way to buy cigarettes (stores that don't card, fake ID's, whatever). I've worked with many, and they aren't stealing them from others. A few might get them from their parents' stash, but most just find a way to buy them.

quote:

ANybody think if you raised the price of Pot fewer teenagers would smoke Pot????

Uh, yep. Look up the term "price-averse" if you need help on this topic.

Shake, I noticed you couldn't answer the other questions I posed. Too hard for ya?

(in reply to MasterShake69)

Post #: 46

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 12:18:08 PM

lronitulstahp

Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
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quote:

The Kyoto treaty would exempt the two biggest polluters in the world, China and India. This would put American businesses at a huge disadvantage

Well, either we will be part of the problem, or part of the solution.

Are you suggesting that the US should join the darkside???

~jedi slut

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to servantforuse)

Post #: 47

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 12:36:24 PM

Lucylastic

Posts: 40310
Status: offline

China and India have much vaster populations than the US and still have per capita are four or more times more emissions than china, http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7347638.stm

and In June 2007, China unveiled a 62-page climate change plan and promised to put climate change at the heart of its energy policies and insisted that developed countries had an “unshirkable responsibility” to take the lead on cutting greenhouse gas emissions and that the "common but differentiated responsibility" principle, as agreed up in the UNFCCC should be applied (wikipedia) with citations below

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6717671.stm also for info where the citation came from and financial times report
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/34ef96a2-1258-11dc-a475-000b5df10621.html?nclick_check=1
America has stuck its head in the sand with regards to pollution, carbon etc, for years, follow the money and the dittoheads who think their shit doesnt stink or pollute the earth. It just seems to be tit for tat....they are doing it so why should we change situation, which is as Tulip so eloquently stated, are you ignoring the light?
Just because us commie pinko environmentalist crazies are upset, doesnt mean we dont have a point.
Lucy

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(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 48

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 3:00:19 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

yes you are right a 18-19 yearolds are also teenagers but younger teens get there cigarette money from older kids or from adults.
high school teens who are working spend there money typically on 3 things....pot, cigarette and alcoholic. As long as there part time job at McDs can provide them with enough $$$ for that then they will buy those things.

Since 9-11 fake IDs are very hard to come by and decent ones are very expensive. Its not like it use to be. Modern stores have scanners. Its not like when i was a kid when you can make a good fake id with a laminator.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

first off teenagers aren't legally allowed to buy cigarettes. They typically steal some from there parents or older siblings.

Newsflash: 18 and 19-year-olds are teenagers. Legally allowed to purchase.
Newsflash: Even teenagers under 18 find a way to buy cigarettes (stores that don't card, fake ID's, whatever). I've worked with many, and they aren't stealing them from others. A few might get them from their parents' stash, but most just find a way to buy them.

quote:

ANybody think if you raised the price of Pot fewer teenagers would smoke Pot????

Uh, yep. Look up the term "price-averse" if you need help on this topic.

Shake, I noticed you couldn't answer the other questions I posed. Too hard for ya?

(in reply to Cagey18)

Post #: 49

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 3:11:29 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

the purpose of Kyoto is to achieve a goal for the world. Are you achieving the goal? Or Are just making a few country's follow these rules and whatever benefits are created are thrown away due to China's growth.

Dark side??/ hmm sounds very simplistic view of the world.....like those on the left would accuse bush of having ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

The Kyoto treaty would exempt the two biggest polluters in the world, China and India. This would put American businesses at a huge disadvantage

Well, either we will be part of the problem, or part of the solution.

Are you suggesting that the US should join the darkside???

~jedi slut

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 50

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 3:16:17 PM

lronitulstahp

Posts: 5392
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline

quote:

Are you suggesting that the US should join the darkside??? ;)

Better?

_____________________________

Truth is, everybody is going to hurt you; you just gotta find the ones worth suffering for." -Bob Marley

(in reply to MasterShake69)

Post #: 51

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 3:25:33 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

yes ;)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lronitulstahp

quote:

Are you suggesting that the US should join the darkside??? ;)

Better?

(in reply to lronitulstahp)

Post #: 52

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 4:07:11 PM

Cagey18

Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

yes you are right a 18-19 yearolds are also teenagers but younger teens get there cigarette money from older kids or from adults.

A point that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

quote:

high school teens who are working spend there money typically on 3 things....pot, cigarette and alcoholic. As long as there part time job at McDs can provide them with enough $$$ for that then they will buy those things.

And as I keep pointing out (and you keep failing to grasp), if the price of those things goes up, they can't buy as much of those things.

quote:

Since 9-11 fake IDs are very hard to come by and decent ones are very expensive. Its not like it use to be. Modern stores have scanners. Its not like when i was a kid when you can make a good fake id with a laminator.

This is laughable. Stores don't scan driver's licenses. The cashier looks at the birthdate, that's it. And as I already pointed out, kids know which stores don't check them for cigarettes.

The other questions still too hard for ya? Or is "teenagers and cigarettes" about your limit?

(in reply to MasterShake69)

Post #: 53

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 6:05:28 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

a concept you cant understand...if you raise the cost of doing business those costs either go to the consumers. If the consumer is unwilling to pay those additional costs then the company is forced to either nolonger sells that product and sells something else or go out of business.

Those costs can be from lawsuits due to idiots spilling coffee to fat kids suing them saying McDs made them fat. A big chain like McDs needs a to have good lawyers at hand to represent it at a moments notice.

recently Mcds had to raise there prices on there double cheeseburger taking it off the dollar menu because they would nolonger be making a profit.

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/story?id=5513875&page=1
Consider a cheeseburger. Since 2006, the price of bread has risen 24 percent, beef 4.4 percent, cheese 6.6 percent, and condiments, from ketchup to mustard to pickles, 3 percent. Rising food prices add a dime to the wholesale cost of every cheeseburger.
For McDonald's, the biggest change surrounds the star of its dollar menu, the double cheeseburger. Some franchises are now selling it with one slice of cheese instead of two. Others are raising the price by as much as 19 cents, taking it off the dollar menu altogether.

(in reply to Cagey18)

Post #: 54

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 6:21:28 PM

Cagey18

Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

a concept you cant understand...if you raise the cost of doing business those costs either go to the consumers. If the consumer is unwilling to pay those additional costs then the company is forced to either nolonger sells that product and sells something else or go out of business.

You're funny! This is a concept I not only understand fully, but alluded to earlier. But at least you've finally grasped how wrong your "people will pay any price" nonsense is. Congratulations!

quote:

Those costs can be from lawsuits due to idiots spilling coffee to fat kids suing them saying McDs made them fat. A big chain like McDs needs a to have good lawyers at hand to represent it at a moments notice.

Forgotten already? I already pointed out that the coffee settlement was less than 1 day of McDonald's profits.

quote:

recently Mcds had to raise there prices on there double cheeseburger taking it off the dollar menu because they would nolonger be making a profit.

And as I've been pointing out ad infinitum, it's what the market will bear. Clearly McDonald's determined the market would bear a higher price for this item. However, their unit sales on that item will go down as a result (just like they do for cigarettes).

(in reply to MasterShake69)

Post #: 55

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 6:29:29 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

but incase you don't believe me or them ...heres something for you to read

http://www.cardvisor.com/
CardVisor® ID Scanner Protect your business, employees and patrons with an ID Scanner An ID Scanner automates and documents the Age Verification process for nightclubs, bars, casinos, liquor stores, convenience stores, Supermarkets, etc. An ID Scanner Pays for itself by preventing one infraction, typically $1500 in fines, legal fees and lost time (first offense). On the third offense, most states will revoke a liquor license, effectively putting the company out of business!

http://media.www.dailyorange.com/media/storage/paper522/news/2007/01/29/News/N.y-State.Issues.New.Ids.Measures.To.Prevent.Underage.Use.Of.Fakes-2682718-page2.shtml
New York state is presently introducing a counterfeit-proof, redesigned drivers license to increase the strength of the license.

States are moving away from easy-to-manipulate plastic lamination, and focusing on new designs, ultra-violet protection, optical devices and a more efficient barcode. With all of the new attention and education focused towards fraudulent identification, it is now a waste of money, and anyone who is trained can tell its legitimacy right off the bat, warned Edward Weber, sergeant in investigations at Syracuse University's Public Safety.

http://www.htmagazine.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=&nm=&type=MultiPublishing&mod=PublishingTitles&mid=3E19674330734FF1BBDA3D67B50C82F1&tier=4&id=53FAA0D67AE84DE6873E07DEF7BA2C41

Honeywell, pcAmerica Prevent Underage Buyers at the POS Honeywell announces a new solution that takes the guesswork out of age verification. Point of sale systems developer, pcAmerica, recently introduced new software that integrates seamlessly with Honeywell's EasyID software plug-in.

EasyID parses bar code data found on government-issued identification cards for applications involving age verification or automatic electronic form population. This plug-in eliminates the need for host system software to process the encoded information contained within 1D and 2D bar codes found on documents such as military issued identification cards, driver's licenses and driver's permits.

pcAmerica enhanced their Cash Register Express (CRE) and Restaurant Pro Express (RPE) products by incorporating age-verification functionality. CRE is a point of sale system designed for retail environments such as convenience, liquor and grocery stores. When an age-restricted product is scanned using an EasyID-enabled scanner, the software will prompt the cashier to scan the customer's ID. The monitor will clearly display an ID accepted or ID rejected message, depending upon the customer's date of birth. CRE prevents the sale of an age-restricted product to a purchaser with an ID rejected status, ensuring regulatory compliance.

http://www.thejemreport.com/content/view/385/74/
A farewell to the era of anonymous drinking Written by Jem Matzan Jan 09, 2008 at 07:13 PM The frustration of proving one's age to buy things like alcohol and tobacco does not end when you reach the appropriate legal age. Those of us who are fortunate enough to have a youthful appearance are forever burdened with having to carry a state-issued ID card to every place where we might want to buy alcohol or tobacco. Over the past few years, we've been gradually subjected to another, more intrusive ID-related hassle -- that of electronic drivers license scanning. It's one thing when a government representative scans your driver's license; it's another thing entirely when a restaurant does it, and records your personal information in the process. Is this legal? Ethical? Secure? In order to find out, I contacted an electronic security and privacy expert, and the American Civil Liberties Union.

[/quote]
This is laughable. Stores don't scan driver's licenses. The cashier looks at the birthdate, that's it. And as I already pointed out, kids know which stores don't check them for cigarettes.

The other questions still too hard for ya? Or is "teenagers and cigarettes" about your limit?

[/quote]

[Mod Note: personal attacks removed]

< Message edited by ModeratorEleven -- 4/10/2009 6:44:04 PM >

(in reply to Cagey18)

Post #: 56

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 6:33:54 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

is McDs still paying for the coffee incident???...no. ARe they paying for other incidents...yes.
what is the yearly cumulative cost for McDs legal team ??? How much does that cost the company??? guess who pays it...the customers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

a concept you cant understand...if you raise the cost of doing business those costs either go to the consumers. If the consumer is unwilling to pay those additional costs then the company is forced to either nolonger sells that product and sells something else or go out of business.

You're funny! This is a concept I not only understand fully, but alluded to earlier. But at least you've finally grasped how wrong your "people will pay any price" nonsense is. Congratulations!

quote:

Those costs can be from lawsuits due to idiots spilling coffee to fat kids suing them saying McDs made them fat. A big chain like McDs needs a to have good lawyers at hand to represent it at a moments notice.

Forgotten already? I already pointed out that the coffee settlement was less than 1 day of McDonald's profits.

quote:

recently Mcds had to raise there prices on there double cheeseburger taking it off the dollar menu because they would nolonger be making a profit.

And as I've been pointing out ad infinitum, it's what the market will bear. Clearly McDonald's determined the market would bear a higher price for this item. However, their unit sales on that item will go down as a result (just like they do for cigarettes).

(in reply to Cagey18)

Post #: 57

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 6:35:57 PM

Cagey18

Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

but incase you don't believe me or them ...heres something for you to read

http://www.cardvisor.com/
CardVisor® ID Scanner Protect your business, employees and patrons with an ID Scanner An ID Scanner automates and documents the Age Verification process for nightclubs, bars, casinos, liquor stores, convenience stores, Supermarkets, etc. An ID Scanner Pays for itself by preventing one infraction, typically $1500 in fines, legal fees and lost time (first offense). On the third offense, most states will revoke a liquor license, effectively putting the company out of business!

Bought cigarettes or liquor at the grocery lately Shake? Or been behind someone in line doing so? Did they scan your driver's license, or just look at the birthdate, as I already said?

Just because a company is selling scanners doesn't mean every store has them.

But hey, cling to your "teenagers steal all their cigarettes" theory if it makes you happy.

Sheesh.

(in reply to MasterShake69)

Post #: 58

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 6:41:05 PM

Cagey18

Posts: 662
Joined: 9/7/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69
is McDs still paying for the coffee incident???...no. ARe they paying for other incidents...yes.

What other incidents? Was the settlement more than a day of McDonald's profits? You really think a company's legal costs make the price of fast food go up? Honestly?

(in reply to MasterShake69)

Post #: 59

RE: Obamas new plan to save the planet??? More Pollution? - 4/10/2009 7:03:05 PM

MasterShake69

Posts: 752
Joined: 11/30/2005
Status: offline

i know it goes on here...i don't know about whatever small state your from.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cagey18

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterShake69

but incase you don't believe me or them ...heres something for you to read

http://www.cardvisor.com/
CardVisor® ID Scanner Protect your business, employees and patrons with an ID Scanner An ID Scanner automates and documents the Age Verification process for nightclubs, bars, casinos, liquor stores, convenience stores, Supermarkets, etc. An ID Scanner Pays for itself by preventing one infraction, typically $1500 in fines, legal fees and lost time (first offense). On the third offense, most states will revoke a liquor license, effectively putting the company out of business!

Bought cigarettes or liquor at the grocery lately Shake? Or been behind someone in line doing so? Did they scan your driver's license, or just look at the birthdate, as I already said?

Just because a company is selling scanners doesn't mean every store has them.

But hey, cling to your "teenagers steal all their cigarettes" theory if it makes you happy.

Sheesh.

(in reply to Cagey18)

Post #: 60

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