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Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 6:28:03 AM

SilverMoonSlave

Posts: 26
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline

Hello Everyone...

I was wondering what thoughts you have on this. Please forgive me if this has been brought up ad nauseum, I searched and could not find a thread.

Now this concerns a situation where you have initially discussed desires and needs and then later on a Master wants you to do something that you know will cause you harm either mentally or physically.

I've come across people who feel that a slave should do whatever her Master asks of her... even her absolute hard limit. I consider a hard limit something that I know I can never bring myself to do... not just a 'gee... hmmm... i don't know', but something that I know will disturb me or can cause me true harm.

For example, I am not into scat or drinking urine. No matter how much I'd love and desire to please and pleasure my Master, that is something I will not do.

I also feel that if He insists and is completely unwavering, even to the point of questioning my loyalty, then there is something off in our relationship.

Now don't get me wrong. If I deeply care and love my Master doing anything He asks will be an absolute pleasure... except for true hard limits. I believe when I have a Master He will know me, push my boundaries but at the same time respect me.

What say you?

< Message edited by SilverMoonSlave -- 4/19/2009 6:29:19 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 6:36:47 AM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline

I say you are absolutely correct - except I'd disagree with one part. Many will argue the one part I disagree with and everyone is entitled their opinion.

In my opinion, a slave's limits are set by their owner's and I think it is wise for a slave to learn of their potential owner's morals and desires ahead of time.

I think a submissive is one who has limits of their own that their Dominant should at all times respect.

While you may define slave differently than I, that is perfectly fine. The only thing you need really worry about is the definition your potential owner/dominant has for that word. Hopefully, the two of you agree on that definition. If not, there will likely be a lot of communication issues down the line.

Good luck.

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Post #: 2

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 6:40:45 AM

kittinSol

Posts: 16926
Status: offline

Plenty of hard limits threads.

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Post #: 3

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 7:22:35 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

Yes, this is pretty much a common thread and discussed a lot on the boards.
We don't do limits. Limits have a boundary. You can cross a boundary even if it's not permitted. It's a misleading concept that creates crap communication if peoples limits don't match as well as leaving vulnerable people open to abuse.

We have don't do's. That makes it pretty damn clear.

the.dark.

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RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 4

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 7:29:56 AM

InTonguesslave

Posts: 342
Joined: 2/6/2009
Status: offline

the thing is, when you do find youre Master you will find someone who is on the same page with youre hard limits, so the issue need never arise.

but, sometimes you can bring a hard limit to the table at the begining and through time, trust and growth in the relationship you can maybe, possibly agree to try it. a recent thread on this topic was about bisexuality.

but in the end the onus is on you to find someone who is as near a match to you in interests and tastes.

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Post #: 5

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 7:42:21 AM

SilverMoonSlave

Posts: 26
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz

I say you are absolutely correct - except I'd disagree with one part. Many will argue the one part I disagree with and everyone is entitled their opinion.

In my opinion, a slave's limits are set by their owner's and I think it is wise for a slave to learn of their potential owner's morals and desires ahead of time.

I think a submissive is one who has limits of their own that their Dominant should at all times respect.

While you may define slave differently than I, that is perfectly fine. The only thing you need really worry about is the definition your potential owner/dominant has for that word. Hopefully, the two of you agree on that definition. If not, there will likely be a lot of communication issues down the line.

Good luck.

Thank you! And I must mention, I agree with your post 100% You put it better than I did... Thank You!

(in reply to Domin8tingUrDrmz)

Post #: 6

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 7:43:54 AM

SilverMoonSlave

Posts: 26
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

Yes, this is pretty much a common thread and discussed a lot on the boards.
We don't do limits. Limits have a boundary. You can cross a boundary even if it's not permitted. It's a misleading concept that creates crap communication if peoples limits don't match as well as leaving vulnerable people open to abuse.

We have don't do's. That makes it pretty damn clear.

the.dark.

I thank you! Funny, don't come across many people named Darcy. Especially spelled that way. It is my name also. Pleasure to meet you Darcy.

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 7

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 7:46:21 AM

VeryNastyDom

Posts: 403
Joined: 9/23/2006
Status: offline

I think all slaves, save for those who are mentally ill, have limits. Give me a sane "no limits" slave and I can find something that is a limit pretty quickly.

The lifestyle is like anything else in this world; if you can find a 95% match then you are lucky. Enjoy the 95% and forget about the last 5% where you are not a fit.

(in reply to InTonguesslave)

Post #: 8

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 7:47:19 AM

SilverMoonSlave

Posts: 26
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: InTonguesslave

the thing is, when you do find youre Master you will find someone who is on the same page with youre hard limits, so the issue need never arise.

but, sometimes you can bring a hard limit to the table at the begining and through time, trust and growth in the relationship you can maybe, possibly agree to try it. a recent thread on this topic was about bisexuality.

but in the end the onus is on you to find someone who is as near a match to you in interests and tastes.

Exactly! That was part of my argument with that person.. the issue should never arise.

And I also agree. There are many things that I can be very open to.. very open! It is a matter of finding that match. I am searching...

Thank you for your input.

(in reply to InTonguesslave)

Post #: 9

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 7:48:30 AM

SilverMoonSlave

Posts: 26
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VeryNastyDom

I think all slaves, save for those who are mentally ill, have limits. Give me a sane "no limits" slave and I can find something that is a limit pretty quickly.

The lifestyle is like anything else in this world; if you can find a 95% match then you are lucky. Enjoy the 95% and forget about the last 5% where you are not a fit.

LOL.. we are in agreement.

Thank you VeryNastyDom.

(in reply to VeryNastyDom)

Post #: 10

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 7:50:14 AM

SilverMoonSlave

Posts: 26
Joined: 2/23/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Plenty of hard limits threads.

Yes, and I feel like a complete dolt for posting. Chalk it up to my frame of mind seeing the other posts as not quite hitting what I was getting at... but I see they were on the mark just in another form. My apologies.

(in reply to kittinSol)

Post #: 11

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 8:03:52 AM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline

You are very welcome. I'm glad you found something useful out of my post.

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Post #: 12

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 8:07:15 AM

LovingMistress45

Posts: 271
Joined: 2/7/2009
Status: offline

I believe all people have limits (or don't dos - kind of like that phrasing) and have a right to them. I also agree with Domin8tingUrDrmz that it is the owner that sets the slave's limits. Now having said that I also believe that one does not enter into a slave relationship quickly as it does mean giving up those rights. The potential slave should get to know the one they are considering very well before becoming that dominant's slave. It is important that the potential owner's hard limits are in agreement with the slave's.

However, reality is that anytime a slave feels that he/she is not being respected he/she can walk out the door. So in a way saying the limits are set by the owner is not totally accurate.

(in reply to SilverMoonSlave)

Post #: 13

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 8:22:43 AM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

I made it easy on myself. I chose a Master who has the same limits as myself...but then again I never had a huge giant list of them.

Mine were simply things that would have caused me to go to jail, kill me or harm me so much I'd end up in a mental ward.

(in reply to LovingMistress45)

Post #: 14

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 8:29:33 AM

subtlebutterfly

Posts: 2230
Joined: 6/15/2008
From: Not your hood
Status: offline

I am my own hard limit.

oi wait..that can't be a good thing..can it.. oh man!

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Post #: 15

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 8:43:36 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMoonSlave

Now this concerns a situation where you have initially discussed desires and needs and then later on a Master wants you to do something that you know will cause you harm either mentally or physically.

I've come across people who feel that a slave should do whatever her Master asks of her... even her absolute hard limit. I consider a hard limit something that I know I can never bring myself to do... not just a 'gee... hmmm... i don't know', but something that I know will disturb me or can cause me true harm.

Nice to see a girl viewing limits the same way as I do.

Within a relationship My girl doesn't have limits, she lives within Mine. I have a duty of care which covers the rest.

Hard limits are things that would damage My property causing her HARM... I will happily hurt her but there is a world of difference between hurt and HARM.

If, to take an extream example, I ordered My girl to jump off a cliff..... That would be in direct contradiction to My duty of care and thus I would not BE the person she believed in and submitted to... she would rightly withdraw consent and leave if I tried to force the issue.

Less extream examples however can be less clear cut. If the Master believes the action would NOT cause HARM (However unpleasent the girl may find it isn't relevant) but the girl believes it would... then it would be discussed. Wether she is able to point out some factor I haddn't accounted for and thus show Me that I did have reason to change My decision isn't the point here, if both are still of the same opinion after such a discussion..... The end of the day she either trusts My judgement or she doesn't, if she doesn't, then We are at an impass. Either she takes that leap of faith and is shown I was right (Risking that she was right, but no Master worth their salt would push that hard unless They where 100% sure!) or she removes consent and walks.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to SilverMoonSlave)

Post #: 16

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 9:31:16 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMoonSlave
I thank you! Funny, don't come across many people named Darcy. Especially spelled that way. It is my name also. Pleasure to meet you Darcy.

I'll let him know! We are a couples profile, I'm the.dark. - Master usually puts that it is him at the beginning of the thread when he is addressing an issue. I put mine at the end... and have the annoying font.

the.dark.

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love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

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Post #: 17

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 9:43:25 AM

catize

Posts: 3020
Joined: 3/7/2006
Status: offline

quote:

Now this concerns a situation where you have initially discussed desires and needs and then later on a Master wants you to do something that you know will cause you harm either mentally or physically.

There are several things about hard limits discussions that frustrate me a great deal.
My hard limits are mine. It doesn’t matter that my dominant has some of the same hard limits. They were mine before I met him, and they will still be mine if he is no longer in my life.

It’s all well and good to talk about trust that the dominant will not cause me harm; but I feel the dominant should trust me; trust that I am able to define harm for myself. Trust that I have valid reasons for those hard limits and I’m not just making it up to avoid things. Trust that when I say “I can’t” it doesn’t mean “I won’t” or “I don’t wanna.” It really means that I cannot do it.

A dominant can have any damn limit he/she wants. That’s the nature of D/s. But a discussion of a dominant’s limits goes like this:
D. :I don’t do X.”
s. “OK” <scratches it off the list of possible fun stuff we’re gonna do.>

On the other hand, a discussion about a submissive’s hard limits goes on and on; explanations, painful revelations which may not even have an impact on the dominant’s final decision, the knowledge that the dominant may bring it up again in the future, ‘revisit’ the option to see if that limit has changed, or to see if I have “grown” in my submission.
It is my opinion, based on past experience, that pushing hard limits has little to do with my well-being and has a lot to do with the dominant wanting it all at any cost.

(The above is a strongly held opinion, and as always YMMV)

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"Power is real. But it's a lot less real if it's not perceived as power."
Robert Parker, Stranger in Paradise

(in reply to SilverMoonSlave)

Post #: 18

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 10:04:39 AM

RavenMuse

Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: catize
I feel the dominant should trust me; trust that I am able to define harm for myself.

I am the one setting the perameters of the relationship, the definitions are Mine and if the girl can't accept those she can find someone else with whom she is more compatable because she ain't compatable with Me.

_____________________________

This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to catize)

Post #: 19

RE: Hard Limits - 4/19/2009 10:37:40 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SilverMoonSlave
What say you?[/font]

Well... for me, at least, I think you're getting wrapped up in labels and definitions. The bottom line... there are things you will not do. That is either acceptable to your partner or not.

For me personally, I'd have a hard time using the word "slave" with anyone talking about limits... but that's just me and my definitions which have no bearing on anyone else. That being said, when I approach a difficult area (read that as "hard limit") with my wife, I do not simply "insist" and become "unwavering". I lead her there... you know... like my job as the leader would seem to indicate.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SilverMoonSlave)

Post #: 20

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