RE: why all the cheating?

RE: why all the cheating? (Full Version)

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meatcleaver -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 8:07:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AuburnLady40 Is it still cheating when you have permission or consent to be with someone other then your commited partner? (Are we as a society more accepting of the state of monogamous relationships going by the wayside?) Monogamous relationships always have and always will go by the wayside because they appear to be against human nature. Just because in the past divorce was difficult or cohabitation didn't exist because of social stigma, doesn't mean that cheating wasn't the norm for those people who had the opportunity which were usually the more affluent classes. Now most people have the opportunity and if you believe the stats most people take the opportunity. Most people have boring jobs and no matter how much they love their partner, life at home can easily become hum-drum and routine. The opportunity comes along and confronts you, s/he knows your married and doesn't care and hey, s/he's offering sex without conditions. Talk about a shot of excitment being put into his/her tedious life, how can s/he possibly turn such an offer down? Some people are swept up by a chance meeting, some people are moral cowards and just can't face telling their partner the truth and plan an affair. It takes alsorts but only a fool believes their partner will never cheat on them, look at the statistics, the chances are your partner has cheated on you without you knowing. I've been swept up in the past and very quickly told my partner, not because I couldn't keep the affair a secret, I just didn't want to humiliate her any more than I already had by letting her find out months down the road or from someone else. I've been cheated on in a very planned and malicious way while I was making som e big decisions with this person in mind. She had six months to tell me but she simply watched me make decisions she knew I was making with her in mind. I'm sure the malicious bitch planned my downfall but there you go, she refused to answer any of my questions or apologize (not for the cheating part but the part that cost me dearly). People cheat, plain and simple. They will always cheat. There have been enough psychological studies on the fact and many interesting theories why. If you think you and your partner are so different than the rest of humanity you must think yourself to be a saint. Hell, two out of every ten children don't belong to the man who thinks they are the father.

Lady Alaria -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 8:08:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sophia37 No no no Lady Alaria. I want you to think of something else. And yes, its a bit sticky. What I want to know is, can a clandestine relationships for WHATEVER reason, serve the good? Is there ANY good in it to be found? And my answer would be YES. You can learn the power to love. Other people are in search of the power to lead, as is the Dom gentleman who posted above. To him, that is for the good. Have to toss this in quick. The Dom above is _not_ cheating. He's not looking for anything clandestine. We're not talking about people with permission here, whole different critter(which, personally, I'm all for). quote: I am NOT saying there cant be destruction in it as well. Anything can go awry and in general, in my life, most things do. But most of life falls into ths catagory. So we can get off the destruction mode for just a moment I think. Can we not? It remains to be seen. The question in my mind isn't "can it ever serve a purpose?". The answer to that, in my mind, is fairly obvious. Of course it can. But so can all sorts of really nasty things, like, to go to a far extreme, murder. The question that remains is "can it ever serve the good?" Is it ever justified, or is it just a mistake made by one who's locked into a bad situation and can't find any response that _isn't_ bad? Well, there are probably a few situations where it might be justified. Though most that comes to mind I _personally_ feel I'd be better off leaving the relationship, I know not everyone is wired like I am. And breaking up can be really hard...and if the person has some hold on you(for instance the ability to take your kids away, or sue you for alimony for life, or both) well.....there's a few situations that it becomes reasonable. But I think that most cheating happens more in tune with the first scenario in my previous. You don't want to leave(for some reason or other), but your needs(real needs mind) aren't being met, and communication isn't an option(amazing how often that happens in ltrs...), and poly certainly isn't(most people still respond like you've already cheated if you ask)...well....you cheat. I repeat my credo: Monogamy as a base assumption(and poly people being considered subversive) is unhealthy.

sophia37 -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 8:08:43 AM)
All right. So whats the cost of love. hmmm Is the cost of love, Love? Will you lose love A,. if you love love B.? I think the answer could be not nessasarily. It is possible to love more than one. Could the personal toll be in uplifting oneself to perhaps learn to love again? Must we destroy a marriage to find it? And can not that love spread to others once we rediscover it? Should we always tell people about what we're doing? I dont think any of us ever do from what I read on this site. So with that thought we could always get into what does lying mean to you? See what I mean? It becomes so complex that it could be a headache. And which is why I think people tend to have knee jerk reactions to the intital thought. I must say this Amy, if you know the easy road to freedom, you better let us all know in book form, cuz the rest of us are still struggling! Its just simply hard. No doubt about it. And I think the road in general gets harder for the whole way. Theres just so many shades of grey its mind numbing. I guess a question we need to ask ourselves is can WE do it. If its self betryal you're in big trouble. If it saves you from certain death its possible its correct. I think even in the world of law, the word "intent" is taken into consideration.

raiken -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 8:13:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sophia37 No no no Lady Alaria. I want you to think of something else. And yes, its a bit sticky. What I want to know is, can a clandestine relationships for WHATEVER reason, serve the good? Is there ANY good in it to be found? And my answer would be YES. You can learn the power to love. Other people are in search of the power to lead, as is the Dom gentleman who posted above. To him, that is for the good. I am NOT saying there cant be destruction in it as well. Anything can go awry and in general, in my life, most things do. But most of life falls into ths catagory. So we can get off the destruction mode for just a moment I think. Can we not? It remains to be seen. i can see the good in having an affair...and i have seen it work. i have never seen it work for the long term though, i believe that would be a rarity, at least in my mind. Sometimes folks come into each others lives for a reason, or just by chance, either way, some folks come together when in need of temporary help or respite during a tough time in life. It is good, serves a purpose in that time, brings hope, renews the spirit, helped someone through, etc., fulfillled a desire, or just plain ole sex, whatever the reason. Time passes and the two ships passing in the night, have reached their dawn, and part ways. In that sense it is beneficial for many reasons to those receiving. No one is hurt, and the two secret lovers take their good memories to their graves. However, situations change, feelings change. Those involved overstay their welcome or pass their limit of what they can safely emotionally handle. One or the other involved in the affair, connection, or whatever you wish call it, may feel they are strong enough to enjoy the affair and remain detached from wishing or wanting or desiring more...then something happens...and suddenly, the entire situation turns a deepened bittersweet, and begins to crumble and becomes toxic. In that sense, it is more detrimental than if the affair had never occured, it leaves deep wounds on some. For me it depends on the nature of the connection and the purpose, and yes, structuring it and writing it down as a reminder helps to keep the perspective. But those darned feelings...hmmm...what to do with those unruly emotions that do not enjoy listening to logic, eh? Personally, i would no longer enter into that type of situation, because i no longer desire to seperate myself into parts...i tried it...when i was not as sure of who i was inside. It was during a time when i did not feel whole and complete, and was looking outside to find who i was within. It was during a time when i was willing to settle for a part of the pie and not the whole. But to do that now, would be like setting myself up for a fall. i know who i am and who i am not...i give with all of me, and not just a part. It worked when i needed it to work though, and i have memories i will take to my grave as well. Just sharing... ~i enjoyed the thoughts expressed in this thread. ~smiles

Lady Alaria -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 8:20:01 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sophia37 All right. So whats the cost of love. hmmm Is the cost of love, Love? Will you lose love A,. if you love love B.? I think the answer could be not nessasarily. It is possible to love more than one. Could the personal toll be in uplifting oneself to perhaps learn to love again? Must we destroy a marriage to find it? And can not that love spread to others once we rediscover it? Should we always tell people about what we're doing? I dont think any of us ever do from what I read on this site. So with that thought we could always get into what does lying mean to you? See what I mean? It becomes so complex that it could be a headache. And which is why I think people tend to have knee jerk reactions to the intital thought. I must say this Amy, if you know the easy road to freedom, you better let us all know in book form, cuz the rest of us are still struggling! Its just simply hard. No doubt about it. And I think the road in general gets harder for the whole way. Theres just so many shades of grey its mind numbing. I guess a question we need to ask ourselves is can WE do it. If its self betryal you're in big trouble. If it saves you from certain death its possible its correct. I think even in the world of law, the word "intent" is taken into consideration. There is a very simple solution. And you'll probably never be cheated on again. and feel no need to cheat, State from day one that though you're not into one night stands, and aren't really into people who are, you also don't believe in enforced monogamy. You don't believe in cheating. Tell your partner that, should they feel a need for an outside partner, you'd just like to be consulted about it. Or at least told afterward. A permissive attitude, or at least an understanding one, will greatly increase the chances that they will be willing to _tell_ you, should something happen. Then, no lies, no secrets. Just love, and maybe lots of it... I'm still close friends with every lover whom I've used this dynamic with. No messy break-ups, no hatred. Still looking for my 'one(s?)' who will match me truly, though. edited for format goo

Lady Alaria -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 8:25:49 AM)
clarification on my above: The not being into one night stands bit is in reference to people who want to sleep with a different person every night. Imo, they should probably stay single. But that's just me judgin'....I do that sometimes.

crouchingtigress -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 8:33:19 AM)
Sophia, first let me say that i admire your willingness to look at this stuff with me, and share your perspective and also that i consider you a friend and a very wise woman and i am not judging you in any way... quote: I guess a question we need to ask ourselves is can WE do it. If its self betrayal you're in big trouble You make an interesting point, if you personally dont feel that it is self betrayal because of your personal values then maybe it does not have a personal toll... quote: Must we destroy a marriage to find it? I must say this Amy, if you know the easy road to freedom, you better let us all know in book form, cuz the rest of us are still struggling! Its just simply hard i dont think freedom is easy...that is what i was saying, i hear and understand and have lived how bloody hard it is....but when you say you dont have to destroy a marriage just to "find love" i say to you that you already have...you just dont know it yet. quote: Should we always tell people about what we're doing? Not not unless we made a promise that we would. quote: See what I mean? It becomes so complex that it could be a headache. And which is why I think people tend to have knee jerk reactions to the intital thought. i fully agree that knee jerk reactions are more prevalent the higher level of complexity that a subject is . quote: If it saves you from certain death its possible its correct. ok here is where i want details, how does cheating save a person from certain death? and if it does i will reconsider all of my responses.

raiken -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 8:47:28 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lady Alaria Tell your partner that, should they feel a need for an outside partner, you'd just like to be consulted about it. Or at least told afterward. A permissive attitude, or at least an understanding one, will greatly increase the chances that they will be willing to _tell_ you, should something happen. i have found this approach works well for me, as i am a person who loves easily and am honest to a fault. There are those who are not able to handle straight up honesty, and take how i am feeling inside as a personal cut. It is my honest feelings that have often hurt another, and i have been hurt in much the same way over the course of my life until i learned a few things about myself. There were times when i didn't want the other person to fall in love with me, and told them upfront that if they do, i may not be able to return that same feeling. i have asked them if they could live with that. While the answer was yes, they were only fooling themselves, and it is easy to recognize once i had been through the same. i believe that if i didn't have those learning experiences, i may still be out there floundering around, looking for who i am and what i want, still being unsure of both. So the purpose those experiences serve in each of our lives will vary. Are there benefits? i believe there were in my life The lessons, when incorporated, served to make me wiser, and have helped me make beter choices. Then, no lies, no secrets. Just love, and maybe lots of it... If everyone shared this perspective, and allowed themselves to enjoy unconditional love, with respect for one another, and not allow their own insecurities and fears to intervine, it works quite well, and enjoyable. However, not everyone is at that frequency or level of understanding. We're all raised differently, and there are those who only know a love that is conditionally based. I'm still close friends with every lover whom I've used this dynamic with. No messy break-ups, no hatred. Still looking for my 'one(s?)' who will match me truly, though. i feel much the same. i have also remained on friendly terms, and at this moment can't think of any enemies due to past relationships. i have learned the value of forgiveness, especially when i had to learn to forgive myself. i do enjoy your thoughts Lady...~smiles

Lady Alaria -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 9:27:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: raiken i have found this approach works well for me, as i am a person who loves easily and am honest to a fault. There are those who are not able to handle straight up honesty, and take how i am feeling inside as a personal cut. It is my honest feelings that have often hurt another, and i have been hurt in much the same way over the course of my life until i learned a few things about myself. There were times when i didn't want the other person to fall in love with me, and told them upfront that if they do, i may not be able to return that same feeling. i have asked them if they could live with that. While the answer was yes, they were only fooling themselves, and it is easy to recognize once i had been through the same. Wanted to comment on this...it's a good example. You let them know you might not be able to return their feelings. They agreed it would be ok because it was what you wanted. It turned out they were only fooling themselves, and could not handle it after all. I tend to think this happens far to often when someone say that they will only date someone who is monogamous. They respond with what the other wants to hear, for the purposes of giving the relationship(and the attraction) a chance. They might think they will, but often it turns out they were fooling themselves. quote: i believe that if i didn't have those learning experiences, i may still be out there floundering around, looking for who i am and what i want, still being unsure of both. So the purpose those experiences serve in each of our lives will vary. Are there benefits? i believe there were in my life The lessons, when incorporated, served to make me wiser, and have helped me make beter choices. Then, no lies, no secrets. Just love, and maybe lots of it... If everyone shared this perspective, and allowed themselves to enjoy unconditional love, with respect for one another, and not allow their own insecurities and fears to intervine, it works quite well, and enjoyable. However, not everyone is at that frequency or level of understanding. We're all raised differently, and there are those who only know a love that is conditionally based. I've never have managed truly unconditional love, except maybe for my mother and siblings. If I ever have children, I may have it for them. Just about the only circumstance I can see it happening. There are always conditions with those I choose to have in my life. And I've certainly had my fair share of my fears and insecurities intervening. On that level, I'm still muddling through, like most people. quote: i feel much the same. i have also remained on friendly terms, and at this moment can't think of any enemies due to past relationships. i have learned the value of forgiveness, especially when i had to learn to forgive myself. i do enjoy your thoughts Lady...~smiles Thanks much, you too. Love and Light.

crouchingtigress -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 9:29:54 AM)
raiken any chance you could use a font older folks could read? or maybe the size could shift? my eyes hurt...[image]http://www.collarchat.com/micons/m24.gif[/image]

raiken -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 9:33:21 AM)
ah it is arial font and appears bigger on my system sorry...lol

AuburnLady40 -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 9:35:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: meatcleaver Monogamous relationships always have and always will go by the wayside because they appear to be against human nature. Just because in the past divorce was difficult or cohabitation didn't exist because of social stigma, doesn't mean that cheating wasn't the norm for those people who had the opportunity which were usually the more affluent classes. Now most people have the opportunity and if you believe the stats most people take the opportunity. I am in compete agreement with your argument here. As long as a monogamous relationship works for both partners then its a good thing, but as soon as one or both partners aren't having their needs met then its time to face the truths and amnicably go the other way - no need for bad feelings to cloud or erase the good that was. quote: I've been swept up in the past and very quickly told my partner, not because I couldn't keep the affair a secret, I just didn't want to humiliate her any more than I already had by letting her find out months down the road or from someone else. I've been cheated on in a very planned and malicious way while I was making som e big decisions with this person in mind. She had six months to tell me but she simply watched me make decisions she knew I was making with her in mind. I'm sure the malicious bitch planned my downfall but there you go, she refused to answer any of my questions or apologize (not for the cheating part but the part that cost me dearly). I wonder if the end result would have been the same if you had told her of your plans to engage in an affair prior to the actual deed?

FelinePersuasion -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 10:00:47 AM)
I hope you're being sarcastic. quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Is it really cheating if romance is not involved?

raiken -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 10:15:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FelinePersuasion I hope you're being sarcastic. quote: ORIGINAL: LotusSong Is it really cheating if romance is not involved? It's cheating if dishonesty is involved, sarcasm or not, lol.

LTRsubNW -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 5:38:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetieboop I was just curious about why there are so many people that are cheating and lying to their Doms/subs. I don't understand the point. If you have a problem in your relationship, why not try to fix it or get out of it? I find that when you lie and cheat, the person always finds out eventually and it causes a lot of hurt for everyone involved. I know I'd rather have someone tell me that they are interested in seeing other people, than to just do it behind my back and make me think that I'm the only one. Besides, if I'm not making my man happy enough that he feels he has to go find something behind my back (and lie to me about it) then I don't think he's worth being with in the first place. Doesn't anyone care about trust in a relationship anymore? People cheat. Good people cheat. Bad people cheat. It sucks. (And then it's Tuesday).

raiken -> RE: why all the cheating? (11/27/2006 6:39:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LTRsubNW People cheat. Good people cheat. Bad people cheat. It sucks. (And then it's Tuesday). and even good people are dishonest at times...gotta take the whole package and work with what we have...what else to do...live and let live...but be kind about it at least, and don't trample upon others just to fulfill your own desires...i know folks who cheat, that are good folks....its gonna happen some where in the world what, about every few minutes ~grinz someone somewhere is breaking an agreement they may have made when they were in a different mindset and period of their growth....or just because of lack of communication or reciprocation, what ever...i don't judge anyone for the act itself....i do get angry when someone tramples over me and disrespects my person, and lies to me about their marital status...but that is about it....just human nature...some folks will keep their commitments...and live out the rest of their lives faithful to one person....one person for ever and be so jolly happy..while others will cheat...and still love and live with their partner. My family is full of that....and things is i love them dearly and see both the sides..and i understand for some folks in my family the why's of it....this is a thought provoking thread for me tonight....~grinz

AlexAussieSub -> RE: why all the cheating? (12/1/2006 11:02:40 PM)
I mean one-night stands as in go out, have too many drinks, pick up and then the next day think "WTF have I done?" and never do it again. In this situation it would probably be healthier for your relationship to not tell your boyfriend/girlfriend about it. But being in a relationship and having a whole string of secret one-night stands is definitely not healthy.

subinside -> RE: why all the cheating? (5/8/2007 9:27:59 PM)
i just found out tonight that my Dom cheated on me Saturday, while He was supposed to be busy thinking about our relationship. The girl doesn't even know He's engaged.. He didn't think it was important for her to know. i'm not surprised, He's in Tampa, she lives across the bridge in clearwater or such.. and i'm up here in Toronto. i could forgive the cheating, but it's the fact that He doesn't know if He wants to throw His life away with me and my unmentionable.. for someone who happens to be 15 minutes away. He's known her since He moved to Tampa after Katrina.. He met her at Fetish Circuit (so He says).. but He never told me about her. Hell, she thinks i'm just a friend... has no idea we're engaged and in the visa process.. to move us down... that there's a little one involved in all this. The cheating is one thing, the lying.. i don't know if i can ever forgive that.. oh yeah, and the part about not being sorry it happened and not being able to guarantee it won't happen again.. and that nothing will develop from it.

spanklette -> RE: why all the cheating? (5/8/2007 10:39:48 PM)
I'm so sorry to hear that this ended up turning out this way. But, at least you know now before you had hauled yourself and your UM down to Tampa. Are you still planning the move?

MissOchistic -> RE: why all the cheating? (5/8/2007 10:50:07 PM)
Fast Reply i don't give a crap what my husband does as long as i don't find out. if he's doing something that keeps him happy, keeps him off the edge, and i don't ever have to be bothered about it, hell, works for me.

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