RE: Kinksters eat their young.

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RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 4/30/2009 6:41:00 PM

LadyPact

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

I had a thought about this issue . .. . .

I think it's that people come here for an interactive discussion more than a passive read thru some text . ..... . If just reading some text without interaction would do it for them, they'd be reading 'SM 101' or any of the many excellent intro to BDSM books that are out there, & they wouldn't be here 'bothering' people . . . . . .

So it's kinda a catch-22, referring the enquirers to old threads, cuz they're prolly gonna have some questions to start with & as they read thru the (old, new, whatever) thread they're prolly gonna have more questions, comments, etc . . ... . Which they're then gonna wanna post to that old thread . ... .. .

(&, sure, some are trollish, but plenty of non-trolls, & even some of the trolls, learn along the way . . . . . . )

I get what you're saying, Kia, but it's really hard to have a conversation with someone who stopped talking two years ago.

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Post #: 81

RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 4/30/2009 8:34:28 PM

Apocalypso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
I do have to say, if i am not emotionally involved in the responses, it is a lot of fun to be snippy

Thank God somebody's said it.

Sometimes I am blunt because I believe that is the most effective way of getting a valuable point across to someone.

Sometimes I am snarky because I find it amusing and because I suck at resisting the urge to take cheap shots. And because I have a tendency to play to the gallery.

In the latter case, I am undoubtably being a dick.

See, that's why I raise eyebrows at this issue. I'm not saying everyone does what I do, but I'm highly cynical about the amount of people who claim that they are only blunt for noble motivations. Sure, it might be true for some. But with others I can't help but feel that our flagwavers for brutal honesty could do with admitting that sometimes they're being snarky because they enjoy it.

That said, I at least try to go a bit easy on the newbies. (At least in the BDSM specific forums). Largely I do this by ignoring those I can't be bothered with. So it's not actually particuarly nice. It's more that I can't help feeling that a fully grown adult asking if its reasonable to legally sign over their house to a dom they've spoken to once is too stupid for me to care what happens to them.

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Post #: 82

RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 5/3/2009 7:06:07 AM

DomImus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitastrophe33
What is obvious to one may completely baffle another. There are no stupid questions.

Being baffled by the obvious might qualify as a text book definition of stupidity.

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Post #: 83

RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 5/3/2009 8:39:07 AM

LeatherBentOne

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I try to use the old addage:

If you cant say something nice, say nothing at all.

Makes sense to me.

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Post #: 84

RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 5/19/2009 3:23:31 PM

DemonKia

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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FR, after read thru

Had a long-after-the-moment thought that did not seem to have appeared in this thread . ..

This is a social space full of many people who identify as 'dominant' & / or 'sadistic', so I'm actually a little puzzled at an expectation of any kind of gentle, careful, delicate treatment . .. . . . Politeness, yes, but I've been raked over coals oh-so-politely & with the most scrupulous of etiquette long before I ever encountered this thing called BDSM, so, for me, politeness is sort of a non-sequitur to this discussion . . . . . .

I do expect persons who identify as dominant & / or sadistic to engage in power & control struggles, & to take whatever opportunities they want to engage in dominant & / or sadistic behavior -- overt & covert . ... . .

& of course all of the above is strictly my opinion, thanks.

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Post #: 85

RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 5/19/2009 7:43:15 PM

WyldHrt

Posts: 6412
Joined: 6/5/2008
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quote:

This is a social space full of many people who identify as 'dominant' & / or 'sadistic', so I'm actually a little puzzled at an expectation of any kind of gentle, careful, delicate treatment . .. .

That point has been brought up from time to time

That said, I think many who are complaining have not really experienced "The Big Bad Internet" on unmodded boards, where flame wars start over discussions about the best brand of breakfast cereal

TBH, I had no issues when I joined, and have found CM to be one of the better boards as regards new folks. Some places out there are truly nasty to n00bs, but most people here will welcome them. Of course, the approach taken by the new person is a factor, just like IRL. Coming into a new group of people (in any situation), I have found that it is best to kick back, listen (or read), and get a feel for things before jumping in. This is easily done on message boards, as everything posted is a click or 2 away.

As I said, I had no issues when I joined (I was, in fact, welcomed very warmly) but I have noticed some things that tend to put a target on a n00bie's butt, and hence have some advice for the guys n gals new to CM:

1. Making your first post a complaint about the group or board is not a good idea. Double negative points for asking why you can't find a Domme who isn't a scammer or pro within 2 months of joining.
2. Attempting to "educate" a bunch of people who may well be more experienced than you are, and who don't know you from Adam, is NOT the way to impress them. Double negative points for getting defensive when challenged on your knowledge or experience.
3. Posting something extremely stupid is going to get your ass flamed off, full stop. Double negative points if you try to defend a harebrained idea that you posted without thinking it through, or ignore/ shoot down any and all posts that don't say what you want to hear after asking for advice.
4. If you are feeling shy and just want to get to know some of the board folks, the Off Topic section on any board is the place to be. Here on CM, the Polls and Random Stupidity forum is the place to hang out and connect with others.
5. Read, read, read; and then read some more before posting. This is the best way to get a feel for the board and avoid the dread "Assinflamus" syndrome that I have ever found.
6. Take what makes sense, and leave the rest. Some folks here won't like you, and may post nasty in your direction no matter what. Others will simply be very blunt, esp if they think you are fucking things up. Still others will sugar-coat things, including the fact that you are fucking things up, to make you feel better. There are even a few folks here who will pick up their supportive pompoms no matter what you post. My advice is to listen to the things that resonate with you, even if uncomfortably, and leave the rest.

Okies, that's it

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Post #: 86

RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 5/20/2009 5:04:05 AM

HalloweenWhite

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quote:

ORIGINAL: kitastrophe33

Okay not always. And not all of them. I have to say, though, that as I've been browsing the message boards there are a lot of really snippy responses to questions...especially some of the newbie questions that are admittedly sort of naive, but also sort of common questions. I'm pretty sure no one sits down to post a question thinking "what is the dumbest question I can possibly ask?"

There are infinite ways to be kinky. What is obvious to one may completely baffle another. There are no stupid questions.

A great many comments are great, but I still do wish there was a more supportive, embracing attitude over all...Build each other up, rather than tear each other down with snide, condescending comments.

I dunno...definitely not wanting to offend, just an observation...

You'll get used to seeing that the more you use the boards. S/some do it cos T/they think they're funny, S/some do it because they think they're clever, some do it cos they can't think of a sensible answer. But it goes on all over this place, in time you'll be able to predict which questions'll get hassle and who'll do the hassling. In time you'll learn to filter it out.

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Post #: 87

RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 5/20/2009 5:08:03 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

quote:

This is a social space full of many people who identify as 'dominant' & / or 'sadistic', so I'm actually a little puzzled at an expectation of any kind of gentle, careful, delicate treatment . .. .

That point has been brought up from time to time

It has. And I don't understand such an excuse. Orientation is no excuse for fucked up behaviour.

the.dark.

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Post #: 88

RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 5/20/2009 5:15:17 AM

DemonKia

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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Observation rather than excuse, thanks. Please do not ascribe motivation to my words, with all respect.

To be absolutely clear, I expect poor behavior from lots of people because past observation has displayed that trend, & as has been pointed out the BDSM crowd is just people.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark
It has. And I don't understand such an excuse. Orientation is no excuse for fucked up behaviour.

the.dark.

< Message edited by DemonKia -- 5/20/2009 5:19:17 AM >

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Post #: 89

RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 5/20/2009 5:22:39 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12
I do have to say, if i am not emotionally involved in the responses, it is a lot of fun to be snippy

Thank God somebody's said it.

Sometimes I am blunt because I believe that is the most effective way of getting a valuable point across to someone.

Sometimes I am snarky because I find it amusing and because I suck at resisting the urge to take cheap shots. And because I have a tendency to play to the gallery.

In the latter case, I am undoubtably being a dick.

See, that's why I raise eyebrows at this issue. I'm not saying everyone does what I do, but I'm highly cynical about the amount of people who claim that they are only blunt for noble motivations. Sure, it might be true for some. But with others I can't help but feel that our flagwavers for brutal honesty could do with admitting that sometimes they're being snarky because they enjoy it.

That said, I at least try to go a bit easy on the newbies. (At least in the BDSM specific forums). Largely I do this by ignoring those I can't be bothered with. So it's not actually particuarly nice. It's more that I can't help feeling that a fully grown adult asking if its reasonable to legally sign over their house to a dom they've spoken to once is too stupid for me to care what happens to them.

True. But don't you censor your snippiness so as to direct it at those who do deserve it and not someone who has shown themselves capable of actually hearing advice and thinking it over? I'm a lot less likely to be snippy to someone who does think things over rather than to someone who is willfully heading for a train wreck and ignores every attempt to help them by saying something like "But all twue slaves do this no matter what" or "I love him" when the him in question has just run off for the weekend with her younger sister.

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Post #: 90

RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 5/20/2009 6:05:26 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

Observation rather than excuse, thanks. Please do not ascribe motivation to my words, with all respect.

To be absolutely clear, I expect poor behavior from lots of people because past observation has displayed that trend, & as has been pointed out the BDSM crowd is just people.

The thing is, unless someone speaks (or in this case types) what they perceive, then people can't discuss what is meant. If I hadn't ascribed a motivation, you wouldn't be able to correct me which I accept. Tell me I am wrong - and I will apologise. Tell me I am incorrect and I will listen to the amendment. But I will not be told what I can or cannot ascribe anymore than someone should to you - and be expected to comply. I am all for communication and clear communication and if I mistook an observation for an excuse, then I will apologise if you felt personally slighted, baring in mind it wasn't directed at you initially, but at the concept which is banded around the messageboard pretty frequently in all types of threads. It's turing into a buzzword concept and I don't dig the unoriginality of buzz words - it's my deal.

Poor behaviour is pretty much subjective at the end of the day, what someone sees as bullying another sees as telling it straight. Of course bdsm peeps are from the general population, so therefore, its not limited to sadists and dominants so I do not see why people are always confronted with the 'what do you expect, there are sadists here!' when asking why some people make other people suffer. I have never seen that observation made in public settings, only on messageboards like this.

Unlike your statement that you 'do expect persons who identify as dominant & / or sadistic to engage in power & control struggles, & to take whatever opportunities they want to engage in dominant & / or sadistic behavior -- overt & covert ' I don't see why. Fact is, just 'some people' engage in such struggles... in my experience I would observe that females (generalisation alert) would be far more the target group than dominants and sadists. In fact settled Masters with full-on stable monog or poly relationships I have rarely seen engage in pissing contests other than on a political level. But then I believe politics is just a pissing ground full stop.

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 5/20/2009 6:20:43 AM >

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Post #: 91

RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 5/20/2009 12:55:20 PM

EmelineRose

Posts: 38
Joined: 5/12/2009
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From my observations the average person has some deep seated need to feel superior to others whether they think it is because they are thinner/richer/smarter/better educated/shinier/more sub/more Dom/whatever......online communications and attitudes reflect that part of human nature as much as offline.

It is those who have attained some level of spiritual advancement and maturity (not necessarily religious, in fact probably NOT religious, but if you can think of spirituality as a sense of connectedness which brings greater empathy) who will give the wiser and most worthwhile answers IMO. I tend to read those people. The rest I consider dross, a waste of time, especially those who answer everything in stereotypes and endless platitudes.

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Post #: 92

RE: Kinksters eat their young. - 5/20/2009 1:53:17 PM

DemonKia

Posts: 5521
Joined: 10/13/2007
From: Chico, Nor-Cali
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Duly noted. Perhaps if it had been worded more like, 'I think that's an excuse & I don't buy it' or some similar . . . . . .

It's not that I took offense so much as that, for me, contextually, 'excuse' becomes pejorative if not carefully used . . . . . 'Excuse' itself is a buzz word that's used to insult people in a rather plausibly deniable way, to my mind, especially used by those for whom the phrase 'personally responsibility' is also a rather magical buzz phrase . . . . . . &, again strictly in my opinion, all these 'buzz concepts' denote a certain lack of introspection, compassion, & a desire to avoid thinking . . . .. .

Similarly, my apologies for offense. Your postings tend to be reasonably thoughtful, but I did feel a little 'toe-trod' . . . . ..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darcyandthedark

The thing is, unless someone speaks (or in this case types) what they perceive, then people can't discuss what is meant. If I hadn't ascribed a motivation, you wouldn't be able to correct me which I accept. Tell me I am wrong - and I will apologise. Tell me I am incorrect and I will listen to the amendment. But I will not be told what I can or cannot ascribe anymore than someone should to you - and be expected to comply. I am all for communication and clear communication and if I mistook an observation for an excuse, then I will apologise if you felt personally slighted, baring in mind it wasn't directed at you initially, but at the concept which is banded around the messageboard pretty frequently in all types of threads. It's turing into a buzzword concept and I don't dig the unoriginality of buzz words - it's my deal.

Poor behaviour is pretty much subjective at the end of the day, what someone sees as bullying another sees as telling it straight. Of course bdsm peeps are from the general population, so therefore, its not limited to sadists and dominants so I do not see why people are always confronted with the 'what do you expect, there are sadists here!' when asking why some people make other people suffer. I have never seen that observation made in public settings, only on messageboards like this.

Unlike your statement that you 'do expect persons who identify as dominant & / or sadistic to engage in power & control struggles, & to take whatever opportunities they want to engage in dominant & / or sadistic behavior -- overt & covert ' I don't see why. Fact is, just 'some people' engage in such struggles... in my experience I would observe that females (generalisation alert) would be far more the target group than dominants and sadists. In fact settled Masters with full-on stable monog or poly relationships I have rarely seen engage in pissing contests other than on a political level. But then I believe politics is just a pissing ground full stop.

the.dark.