RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (Full Version)

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pahunkboy -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 9:18:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyTop

Hunky.. the link didnt work.. said something about a malformed video? 

And I love this:
quote:

I am whole as an individual- if a friend or mate happens- then that is bonus.  I dont want a crutch person, nor will I be the crutch.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9EGCwcqJ6o



Vendaval -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 9:35:19 AM)

Fast Reply -
 
Look around for the nearest GLBTQ groups, PFLAG and clubs at nearby colleges and universities.  Even if not a student you can usually meet and socialize with club members.



stella41b -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 9:52:07 AM)

I'm also a transsexual female, only I haven't had surgery but I'm stuck in the middle of my transition and have experienced the negativity, losses from being out and yes I go through periods of being alone and isolated from people.

But it's got to be said that having a pussy doesn't necessarily make you a female, but it's what lies inside of you. Yes I am female but not like a natural born female, hence I refer to myself as a transgendered female, and you know no amount of hormones, therapy or surgery is ever going to make me any more female than I am today, nor is it going to make me anywhere as female as a natural born female.

What makes you female lies inside you, in your brain, in your genes, and yes it's that old maternal instinct. Being female means not quitting, not giving up, if there's shit in your life then you face up to the shit and deal with it and you come through the other side of the shit to be just that bit stronger. Yes of course I cannot get pregnant, I can't even have a period or menstruate and I never will be able to, but that instinct is still there, just like it is in any female, any woman is capable of being a mother, being there, of dealing with shit as it comes up, cleaning up shit and responding to whatever life throws at you.

I also identify as a lesbian, and yes I get the same crap as you do from the websites and there will always be a divide between the trans-friendly and those who are not trans-friendly. There's not really much you can do about that, everyone has their preferences for those who they wish to share the most intimate parts of their lives and there's nothing really you can do but respect those preferences.

It's not all about body parts or gender roles, it's also about personality, character, attitude and the way you project yourself to other people. If you project out negative energy towards other people they will respond in a negative manner but if you project positive energy you will get positive energy back, or at least neutral energy (if they're not sure) but if it starts becoming negative (for life as we know isn't fair) then drown them in the positive energy vibes.

But you know not all the discrimination is due to being transgendered, and it's the same for people who are gay, lesbian, overweight, kinky, vanilla, black, white, red, yellow, male and female - there's a lot of reasons why you can face discrimination and being different from the norm (the perceived norm, for there is no norm in society) is a sure fire way of being discriminated against. Some will like you, very few will love you, let the rest go to hell and concentrate on liking back those who like you and loving those who love you - this is what life is really all about. There's no need to feel like a special case just because you're transgendered. You're not a special case, it's the other person who has the issues.

I've got used to the discrimination, I don't mind freaking out or even upsetting the more narrow-minded people in society, it keeps them interested in life and perks the old blood pressure up. It doesn't really affect me unless I allow it to affect me and it sure isn't going to change me or who I am.

Nor should it change you and who you really are.



pahunkboy -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 9:55:42 AM)

.....I am not one to go to straight or gay bars....   People tend to feel they MUST know ones sexuality.   If I openly say I am gay- then males get like I might make a pass at them.  But if I let people think I am straight- a glance at a lady could be construed as a flirt- thing- and ladies avoid me thinking- they dont want a guy trying to lay them left and right- but if I say nothing around males- they suspect I am gay- so that gets in the way.   The point is- one can be in tight places where the worst of both worlds prevail-   (tho then blow over)

....Say I strike a a conversion with a lady.   the typical thought is- that guy is chasing the girl.   But then if dont go ga ga over big tits and short skirts- what is wrong with that guy- he did not look at the pretty lady.  

Catch 22 at times.   As  result- I tend to keep to myself.    ...IMO most the population is messed up. 

I  over heard my siblings in small talk- and the anti gay wording- but to them- I am not gay- I am the brother.   As long as I am the brother it flows.   But there is trouble- as Say we have a dinner or go out- and I wasnt to bring a friend.   Jenny isnt my wife or gf- so that wont work- and a male would be too gay.  My brother, mom wont have that in their house.   But that is fine. I undertand.

when I lived with Bob for 7 years- they never seen both of us in the same room/house/yard.

I dont wish to lie- nor hide every little thing.   And I will tell you what- things I post here- my family would NOT want to know. I can hear play by play details of eatting pussy rug burns, trapped into a corner screaming with orgasm.   But if I mention- or heck- if I even LOOK at a truck driver- then it doesnt go over.

Gosh- That did piss me off when I got a lecture on not looking at trucker when my brother and I go somewhere.  My point is- that with Jim I could share all the nuences of life and gay.   And he uniquely could respond.   Jenny attempts to understand- but it is somewhat diferent in the connection.



popeye1250 -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 11:02:08 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

You are one of the most ignorant and hurtful people I've ever come across. It makes me really wanna forget about ever coming back to this site.

I'm a woman, period. Being transsexual just means I was born with some incorrect body parts. You would treat me the exact same way you would treat any other woman you encounter, plain and simple.

Also, saying gays are messed up is incredibly offensive and if you were right in front of me right now I'd probably stab you in the eye with my pen, that's how mad that statement makes me. You have a lot to learn about being a decent human being.

As it stands, though, I have had too much to deal with, all in a single day, so I think maybe I'm just gonna down the rest of my pills now and just end it. I can't live with the pain anymore. It hurts too damn much.

It's because of people like you that I feel as though suicide is the only answer left.


Dream, PaHunk is neither hurtfull nor ignorant.
He's been on here for a number of years and I and many others enjoy his posts and interesting subjects.
He "tells it like it is" and many in here respect him for it.



DreamGoddess666 -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 2:08:36 PM)

Now I've had some sleep and I don't feel quite as depressed as I did last night . . .

MissDominae, should I redo my profile and just list myself as a woman, then? Should I just stop telling people I'm transsexual? That's something that crossed my mind, actually. Since it's no one's business but my own, I could avoid the discrimination that way. All I wanted was to be accepted as a woman. That's who I am whether the anti-transsexuals like it or not. Regardless of how many "real" women tell me otherwise, I consder myself just as much a woman as them. I was born with birth defects. It's no different than being born without legs or arms. I was never ever a man. I'm not a man who became a woman. I don't consider myself "transgendered" because that implies I changed my gender, when I've been a woman since the day I was born gender-wise, since gender is hard-wired into the brain. I'm a transsexual, I had the physical sex organs not changed but fixed. I'm a woman.

My friends ditched me because "they were friends with 'such-and-such (my former name, which I'm not gonna say on here), not with Lindsey". What they did to me was wrong. I would say the same of any lesbian who would not go out with me just because I was born with a purely physical birth defect. I can't have respect for those who don't respect me.

I have a psychiatrist appointment in early July, the earliest I could get one. It's true, I bypassed a lot of the stuff and went to Thailand for my surgery. I was sure of myself and felt like I shouldn't have to wait several years to be the real me. I wanted to start my new life while I was able to. So I said to hell with society and to hell with their stupid rules and guidelines and went and did what I knew was the right thing for me. I can't be blamed for people turning their backs on me, they're the jerks who did the backstabbing.

Now all I really want is to find someone to compliment me, someone to share my life with, someone to experience new things with, someone to have fun with. That's what I'm here for. That's what I'm on like four other dating sites for. I wish I could get out of Georgia because this place is pure HELL for people like me. Unfortunately, I can't move on my own. Hell, even finding a roommate in an open place like California would be a step in the right direction for me. I can't live by msyelf because I don't make enough money to do so ($672/month SSI disability is all I have unless my book is published and I strike it rich). All I know is that I want to find the one and be happy.



kdsub -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 4:28:11 PM)

I think everyone is going too deep in the why's and what for’s. I'll bet it is as simple as... men... not transsexuals but men playing a roll just so they can maybe see some lesbians making out. People get tired of it. Then along comes someone serious… a true woman trapped in a mans body...not a gay or bi...but an actual woman...but with the wrong body parts...but after all the fakes it is hard to believe and accept them.

Now maybe I am wrong but for the most part I believe gay or bi men like the idea of a transsexual...they get a little of each...am I wrong there?

Butch

Sorry aphotic...this is a reply to Lindsey



atypicalsub -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 4:36:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Now maybe I am wrong but for the most part I believe gay or bi men like the idea of a transsexual...they get a little of each...am I wrong there?



As with making a generalization about any group, some do, others don't.  There are some gay or bi men who think transexuals are the hottest thing alive and there are others who will have nothing to do with them.



kdsub -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 4:48:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: atypicalsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Now maybe I am wrong but for the most part I believe gay or bi men like the idea of a transsexual...they get a little of each...am I wrong there?



As with making a generalization about any group, some do, others don't.  There are some gay or bi men who think transexuals are the hottest thing alive and there are others who will have nothing to do with them.



Nothing wrong with generalizations...as long as they are true... and this one is as far as my experience...yours may be completely different however. Its ok for you to make an estimate... do you think it is 50 50 or close to it or do you think it is one way or the other... at least in your experience? After all that is all we can go by.

Every day in life we make and use generalizations...sure we may be wrong but there is nothing wrong in making them unless they are proven wrong and we refuse to adjust.

Butch





MissDominae -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 4:56:47 PM)

Hi Lindsey,

I'm going to hit you with another long post.   Although you may not like some of the things you read, they come from a place of both experience and compassion and with the understanding which can only ever really come from another woman who transitioned.   Please give what I write a lot of quiet and careful thought and feel free to contact me away from this forum.

I guessed you were probably one of the folk who took the so-called 'easy route' and dodged the HBSOC by going to Thailand.   Now, unfortunately, you are discovering why we beg and plead with people not to do it (I say 'we' because, for many years before illness - I have advanced MS -  rendered me disabled and thus unfit to work or do much outside the home, I was a counsellor and lecturer in this field).   Transition is about so much more than surgery and you have missed that 'so much more'.   As Gandalf says in Lord of the Rings, "Short cuts make long delays".   Surgery is the end result of a long process not because of cruelty or bureaucracy but through necessity.   You are now discovering the reasons for that necessity.   It prepares you mentally and emotionally, lets you examine and explore both your motivations and your preparedness, helps lay the foundations for ongoing and future relationships by teaching the mechanisms and methods through which these can best be achieved, and lets you make an informed decision on whether or not to proceed.   You have cheated yourself of this important socialising mechanism.   There *are* no short cuts in life when it comes to issues as difficult as this one.

I can't tell you what to put in your profile hon.   I put female because not only is that what I am, it is what and who society accepts me to be, what the law in this country deems me to be and the only thing I have any notion of how to be.   I was born with a medical condition; a form of Intersexuality called 46XX/47XXY Mosaicism, but I don't call myself Intersexed or trans-anything for the same reasons that people don't call themselves a 'cancer' or a 'asthma' or a 'arthritis'.   Those are conditions which happen TO you, not ones which define who you are.   They are adjectives, not nouns.   Other than my name (Olivia) the only noun which adequately names me is 'woman'.   Intersexual does not fit - my birth defects have been repaired - Transsexed does not adequately explain me and transgendered - as you point out - suggests I have changed something which I don't believe CAN be changed by transition; your innate knowledge of who you are.  It's true that things aren't quite that clear or easy for those of transsexed background because their medical condition is (a) not diagnosable through a visual or physical examination, only by differential diagnosis, and (b)  is considered to be psychologically and not physically based [and I disagree with this vehemently; the brain is a physical organ distinct from the concept of 'mind'] but I can say that it is my opinion that anyone who has the affirmed *legal* status of female should refer to themselves accordingly.   I don't know what your affirmed legal status is though, since you dodged the HBSOC and went off-shore for surgery, I imagine you may still be (wrongly) considered legally as male in Georgia.   Do you still feel that thinking "...to hell with society and to hell with their stupid rules and guidelines...." was the wisest and best choice you could have made?

I applaud your writing of a book but it won't make you rich - the stort has been done so many times that, unless you have some new and unique angle which places an entirely different slant on your journey, it has all been written before.   May I recommend to you that you read 'Conundrum' by Jan Morris ( transitioned woman and former senior editor of the London Times Newspaper), 'She's not there' by Jenny Flinn Boyle (transitioned woman and Professor, Novellist and playwright)  and the wonderful novels 'Middlesex' by Jeffrey Eugenedies and 'Trans-Sister Radio' by Chris Bodhjalian.   All are brilliantly written and each will give you fresh, poignant and often witty or darkly humourous insights into your condition.

You wrote "I can't be blamed for people turning their backs on me .....".   I'm not here to cast blame on anyone but I will say this; do you think that, if you had been through the entire HBSOC program and been prepared mentally and emotionally for what was to come, you may have been less negative in personality and might not have alienated those friends?   You also speak about "All I want to do is find the one and be happy".   I have a bad habit; I quote often from books and cinema and this comment brought to mind a discussion from the movie 'Cool Runnings'; discussing Gold Medals, one character is told that the Olympics aren't about winning a Gold Medal because "...if you're not enough without one, you'll NEVER be enough with one".  Simply put, discover YOURSELF first.   Find what a beautiful person you are inside and learn to love that person.   The rest will follow in time.   Those people you speak of weren't given the transitional years demanded by the HBSOC to get to know Lindsey as a person and an individual who, whilst sharing the same body as before, was now hormonally, psychologically and socially developing into quite a new and distinct personality.   Those who meet you from now on will not face that dichotomy; give them the chance to get to know you.   Take things slowly and patiently, be positive in outlook and open to possibilities.   Don't let disappointments or obstacles derail the progress you make and never lose sight of the big picture which is life in all its beauty and wonder.

Be safe, be strong and move forward slowly but with purpose and focus.   You *can* make this work, but ONLY you can make it work.

All my blessings ...........



DreamGoddess666 -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 5:25:56 PM)

@kdsub: I can assure you I'm not a fetishist or a transvestite who decided to go too far. In my mind and soul, I have always been a woman. I simply was born with the wrong body parts. It does suck that a few fakes can ruin it for the rest of us, though.

@LadyDominae: I actually had no choice but to take the shortcuts, in all honesty. All (and I do mean all) the doctors in my area were extremely anti-gay and anti-transsexual. I wasn't even able to get a single doctor to prescribe hormones for me. I ended up having to do months of research online and then self-prescribe the hormones for a long time. I have since gotten a doctor to prescribe them for a year from back in Illinois, but I have no idea if my new doctor in Georgia will follow suit, in which case it'll be back to self-prescribing. My gender therapist was a lawfully employed phone counsellor (credentials all checked out, I made sure of that, I took great care in making sure of that), but she basically was more of an enabler. She was there to give me the "permission slips" that you need even in Thailand to undergo surgery. Once a person hits close to 30 years old, transition physically becomes more difficult, so being 27 at the time, I didn't have the luxery of years of waiting to go through it if I wanted the most favorable results, which I did. That and I wanted to be able to move on with my life; I was tired of being stuck in the middle. As for my friends, most people tell me now they weren't my friends at all if they could so easily abandon me. That makes it easier to accept, but it still hurts like hell. You have given me one very valuable thing to think about, though: since I have had surgery to correct the birth defect, to hell with what people think, I'm switching my profile to female because that's what I am. I don't identify as a transsexual. As you said, that's not a definition of who a person is. I'm a woman. I thank you for making that more clear for me.

The only thing I wasn't ready for was the abandonment, really. I was told it could happen, but I spoke to all my friends beforehand and they all promised that it was okay. In the end, it turns out none of them thought I was serious, so when I actually went through with the surgery, they were shocked and drifted away from me. So really, I was lied to by them all. They said they understood and accepted me, then turned their backs when it became a reality. I still haven't gotten over that or found a way to forgive them. They don't deserve forgiveness anyway.

By the way, on a side note, my book has nothing to do with my transition. I'm actually a novelist. It's a modern thriller to be precise, one that I hope will sell very well. I'm trying to be the next Stephenie Meyer. That's a subject for another topic, though, and probably not on a BDSM dating forum, hehehe. It's a pure fiction book, the first of a hopeful series of twenty-seven that I plan to release for a full story.



atypicalsub -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 5:35:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: atypicalsub

As with making a generalization about any group, some do, others don't.  There are some gay or bi men who think transexuals are the hottest thing alive and there are others who will have nothing to do with them.



Nothing wrong with generalizations...as long as they are true... and this one is as far as my experience...yours may be completely different however. Its ok for you to make an estimate... do you think it is 50 50 or close to it or do you think it is one way or the other... at least in your experience? After all that is all we can go by.




My personal experience is that the vast majority of gay and bi men I have met never expressed an opinion one way or the other.  Such being the case making a generalization would be like declaring the winner of an election with 90% of the votes still uncounted.



DreamGoddess666 -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 5:46:39 PM)

Oh! I almost forgot! As for my legal status, I am legally a full woman. I'm recognized as such by the federal government of the United States (which made my marriage void federally), and I have it on my driver's license as well.

The only document I couldn't change was my birth certificate because Illinois has a stupid law that you can only change it if you have the surgery done in the United States. A vast majority of us, even those who follow all the proper channels, will go abroad because, well, the best doctors are not in the United States, they happen to be in Thailand (Dr. Kamol is wonderful and I highly recommend him to any pre-op transsexuals reading this, he's a great man and does great work). I digress, though. The ACLU is currently going after the state of Illinois for that law on Constitutional violations because it violates equal protection under the federal 14th Amendment by saying that an equal procedure done somewhere other than the United States somehow counts for less. So soon enough, that law is going to be flipped and we'll have true justice with the system. Hell, some states will NEVER allow you to amend the birth certificate. That's not an identification document, though, so not a big deal for me. All my identification and federal papers refer to me purely as female by law and no jurisdiction is allowed to contradict the federal order.

[:)]



BitaTruble -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 6:24:58 PM)

~FR~

MissDominae: You rock.
And, Lindsey, listen to Stella. She has some of the sexiest brains on the boards, she's wise beyond belief and one of the few truly alturistic people you'll run into in life.

I've always been a firm believe that gender takes place above the neck, not below the waist. I was lucky. What lies above my neck was matched naturally with what lies below my waist, so I didn't have to struggle for acceptance as a woman because I was born this way, but, girl, you are just adorable and if you love yourself, someone else is going to love you as well.

You have so many positives going for you: Killer hair, the face of an angel and smarts. You'll be okay if you just hang in there. There's support for you here if you need it.

Welcome to the forums.



DreamGoddess666 -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 6:50:03 PM)

Thanks. It means a lot to me. Understanding and delicacy definitely works better for me than tough love. I'm still fragile. Most of the bad stuff happened in the last eight months and is fresh on my mind. I even lost my wife of seven years because of it. So it's been a struggle.



kdsub -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 9:41:00 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: atypicalsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: atypicalsub

As with making a generalization about any group, some do, others don't.  There are some gay or bi men who think transexuals are the hottest thing alive and there are others who will have nothing to do with them.



Nothing wrong with generalizations...as long as they are true... and this one is as far as my experience...yours may be completely different however. Its ok for you to make an estimate... do you think it is 50 50 or close to it or do you think it is one way or the other... at least in your experience? After all that is all we can go by.




My personal experience is that the vast majority of gay and bi men I have met never expressed an opinion one way or the other.  Such being the case making a generalization would be like declaring the winner of an election with 90% of the votes still uncounted.



Just like when the President is already declared a winner before the poles close...happens all the time. They're right most of the time too.

Butch



popeye1250 -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 10:03:15 PM)

You make $672 a month from SSI?
Ah, don't you think you'd be better off with a j-o-b?



MissDominae -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/22/2009 10:15:11 PM)

@Popeye ...... Lindsey may have agood reason why she does not work - I didn't feel it polite to enquire.

I'd love a job - I'd even move to the US for a job~!   Now, all I need first is someone to find both a cure for Multiple Sclerosis and a way for remyelinizing and regenerating the nerves which the illness has destroyed - oh, and the spinal damage repaired from when I fell down the stairs because of my MS - and I'll be raring to go.

@Lindsey.....  I'm glad you're feeling better; sometimes we just need to vent a bit.   I'm sorry I had to come across as Madam Teacher but the things needed to be said and explored and it was best they came from someone who has 'been there done that' and has a relevant perspective on the condition and its consequences.   Never think I'm not on your side in this and I look forward to you being a successful and rich novellist.   Listen to what Bitatruble told you; you can do it.

@BitaTruble.. Wonderfully said~!



DreamGoddess666 -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/23/2009 2:13:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

You make $672 a month from SSI?
Ah, don't you think you'd be better off with a j-o-b?


Wow, that was pretty rude. If I could handle a job, I wouldn't be on SSI DISABILITY to begin with. Duh.

[:@]



YoungBlondeSlave -> RE: Lesbians: Why do you hate transsexuals so much? (5/23/2009 2:31:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DreamGoddess666

Oh! I almost forgot! As for my legal status, I am legally a full woman. I'm recognized as such by the federal government of the United States (which made my marriage void federally), and I have it on my driver's license as well.

The only document I couldn't change was my birth certificate because Illinois has a stupid law that you can only change it if you have the surgery done in the United States. A vast majority of us, even those who follow all the proper channels, will go abroad because, well, the best doctors are not in the United States, they happen to be in Thailand (Dr. Kamol is wonderful and I highly recommend him to any pre-op transsexuals reading this, he's a great man and does great work). I digress, though. The ACLU is currently going after the state of Illinois for that law on Constitutional violations because it violates equal protection under the federal 14th Amendment by saying that an equal procedure done somewhere other than the United States somehow counts for less. So soon enough, that law is going to be flipped and we'll have true justice with the system. Hell, some states will NEVER allow you to amend the birth certificate. That's not an identification document, though, so not a big deal for me. All my identification and federal papers refer to me purely as female by law and no jurisdiction is allowed to contradict the federal order.

[:)]
[/quote

YAY!!! *big hugs*



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