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RE: public humiliation? - 5/31/2009 10:09:03 AM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

I often ponder these kinds of comments... if I cannot wear and use cubby's collar in "public" then perhaps others should not be allowed to wear their outward symbols... crosses, stars of david, wedding rings...

before you say "wait, those are religious symbols" - so is MY COLLAR. it isn't a symbol of just my sexuality or my kink or my romantic commitment... D/s is MY RELIGION

BRAVO!!!. How could I not agree with you there. In my case, the Victorian Lifestyle and M/s is not something I role play at but it is what I am and part of my very being, just as my Pagan beliefs and practices are an integral part of me. Much of this was born and bred in me.

I can not agree with the political BS as far as others finding my way of life and beliefs offensive to them. Just as they have a right to disagree with me and my ways, I have the right to disagree with theirs. None of those people have the right to pester me about how wrong they think I am or ridicule my life choices and beliefs. certainly they do not ever have the right as I will never give them the right to try to force me to change my way of living and what i believe in or even for that matter speaking publically on my choices and beliefs. In my book to do that is an open declaration of war.

Again, for myself only, if I deliberatly dress or act to provoke others, and those provoked are offended, then I have may a bad decision. If during my daily moving about dressed as I normally would, some get offended, the fault is theirs for allowing themselves to be offended.

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Calandra)

Post #: 101

RE: public humiliation? - 5/31/2009 10:15:42 AM

GYPZYQUEEN

Posts: 730
Joined: 4/14/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra

then perhaps others should not be allowed to wear their outward symbols... crosses, stars of david, wedding rings...

before you say "wait, those are religious symbols" - so is MY COLLAR. it isn't a symbol of just my sexuality or my kink or my romantic commitment... D/s is MY RELIGION

It certainly is a spiritual path...teh scared..the profound..the altered states..
adn what then would you say the high truth/higher power is..??
in your BDSM "religion"?
I am very interested in this...I think there is abook in it..

GQ

< Message edited by GYPZYQUEEN -- 5/31/2009 10:21:44 AM >

(in reply to Calandra)

Post #: 102

RE: public humiliation? - 5/31/2009 10:40:54 AM

RCdc

Posts: 8674
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: missturbation
You may choose to do the complete opposite which is all good, but please dont try and tell me you didn't know it would cause offence or that it wasn't intentional.

Misst - my points wasn't about offending, or what was intentional. Both can be happliy seperated and to me, by stating the above, you are trying to alter what you initially said. You made the distinction of intentional offense. That is specific.
To do something intentionally is part of the goal. It's is the outcome that matters. That is the meaning of intent.

When someone wears a collar, their intent is not to cause offense. (Of course, baring the ones that do!) But for many, the intent is to show ownership. Or to look pretty. Or to feel bound. Or because it matches an outfit. Not to cause offense. Of course, someone, somewhere will be offended, but the offense is not the intent.

Same as eating a hot dog. Some people eat them because they like them. Some people do it because it's the only thing to hand. Some people, because it is what they can afford at the time. And someone, somewhere will be offended. But their intent is not to offend. It is to eat.

Are you suggesting that because someone choses to take their children on a bus, that they are intentionally trying to offend someone because someone on that bus just might hate children? Just because you may believe someone may be offended, doesn't mean what you do is intended to offend anyone. That is the most ridiculous way to manipulate that set of words.

You may be intentionally wanting to offend people by going out with a bruised face, if that is your ultimate goal. But if you simply have to go get milk, that's just bad timing.

the.dark.

< Message edited by Darcyandthedark -- 5/31/2009 10:46:27 AM >

_____________________________

RC&dc

love isnt gazing into each others eyes - it's looking forward in the same direction

(in reply to missturbation)

Post #: 103

RE: public humiliation? - 5/31/2009 11:16:47 AM

ChainedExistence

Posts: 507
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Calandra
I often ponder these kinds of comments... if I cannot wear and use cubby's collar in "public" then perhaps others should not be allowed to wear their outward symbols... crosses, stars of david, wedding rings...

before you say "wait, those are religious symbols" - so is MY COLLAR. it isn't a symbol of just my sexuality or my kink or my romantic commitment... D/s is MY RELIGION

I wasn't aware that the collar and leash were the religious symbols for BDSM, however I have seen a lot of BDSM jewelry that's readily available for purchase from a number of vendors. I think that might be more in keeping to wearing a cross, a star of David or a wedding ring.

< Message edited by ChainedExistence -- 5/31/2009 11:19:17 AM >

(in reply to Calandra)

Post #: 104

RE: public humiliation? - 5/31/2009 11:20:14 AM

colouredin

Posts: 4279
Joined: 2/2/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ChainedExistence
I wasn't aware that the collar and leash were the religious symbols for BDSM, however I have seen a lot of BDSM jewelry that's readily available for purchase from a number of vendors. I think that might be more in keeping to wearing a cross, a star of David or a wedding ring.

Well a collar for many is akin to a wedding band

_____________________________

Resident Lime(y) Tart
There would be no gossip without secrets
I don't want to be anything other than what I've been trying to be lately

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELvfMJoKDAk

(in reply to ChainedExistence)

Post #: 105

RE: public humiliation? - 5/31/2009 11:24:53 AM

GYPZYQUEEN

Posts: 730
Joined: 4/14/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GYPZYQUEEN

It certainly is a spiritual path...teh scared..[/quote]GQ

hmmmmm what kind of slip is this???

sacred..ya ya that s it

< Message edited by GYPZYQUEEN -- 5/31/2009 11:25:54 AM >

(in reply to GYPZYQUEEN)

Post #: 106

RE: public humiliation? - 5/31/2009 11:32:59 AM

Jeptha

Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: HeavansKeeper
...Why are kids so important? Victoria's Secret is opening a new store in the mall. While they do construction, they have a HUGE picture of a scantily clad woman on the closed store front. Literally, 50 feet long - black lingerie. How can someone justify scoffing at me tugging a girl-puppy on a leash if we're within eye shot of those car-sized tits?...

Because you are modeling behavior.
It's one thing to explain about consumer culture, it's another to explain about collars, leashes, relationship dynamics, etc.

~Witness the ongoing twists and turns of discussions here.
Difficult to explain clearly to impressionable minds (and to each other.)

Oh, sure - you could try and bullshit them (meaning youth, now) about it.
But I'm not sure if that ever really works.

Of course - it's not that big a deal, really - in your life it's perfectly natcheral, after all.
-But it could potentially be sort of a complicated thing for others to have to lay out there to inquiring minds.

That's my thought. Maybe it is ultimately best to just have it all out there, though.

quote:

...an 80 foot wide billboard of a cum dripping mouth is absurd. Absolutely absurd.

Hmm, I haven't noticed this one yet. Interesting!

Is that a reference to those "Got Milk?" ads?

< Message edited by Jeptha -- 5/31/2009 11:36:04 AM >

_____________________________

...YOU KNOW HOW I LIKE MY PORK CHOPS!
- - - - - - -
"....(somewhere) therein lies the truthiness..."
~*~*~*~*
http://www.myspace.com/crocusofiron

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

Post #: 107

RE: public humiliation? - 5/31/2009 11:51:33 AM

ChainedExistence

Posts: 507
Joined: 2/5/2005
Status: offline

The discussion here has been quite heated on both sides.... Both camps are throwing up examples that are valid, but here is what I wonder. Where SHOULD the line be drawn about what takes place in public? What is TOO much? Who gets to decide that? Even the laws we have in place cannot always decide what is indecent or acceptable. Things do change over time, but at what point will everyone agree that "this particular act" is ok and this one isn't? Unfortunately, it tends to be a matter of majority rules. I live in the south and while things have changed a lot in recent years, this is still a conservative community. It is not going to change overnight. It is not going to change because some Dom takes his sub for a stroll on a leash. Will it ever be "acceptable" here? Maybe, maybe not. Does someone have the right to do it? Probably, they do, (though I'm with the person who said the cops would probably find something to charge you with). Would people here be offended? Yes. Would I personally be willing to risk offending people in my community? No, not with the job I do for a living. People have choices they have to make for themselves, and risks they are willing to assume. For me, I am content to keep this part of my life private, but I understand that others do not wish to do the same. Changes come when people push the envelope of acceptability; however they do have to understand if they want to be on the forefront of that change, they will have to accept some hostility from others. Keep in mind that this comes from someone with no real interest in public play, so I don't really get the overwhelming desire to be so out there for the world to view. I am a slave to Master all the time, and his control over me exists at all times whether it is apparent to others or not. By no means am I saying our way is superior, it's just our way.
And I get that the collar can be like a wedding band, I was just pointing out that there are BDSM "jewelry options" for those who wish to have them.

< Message edited by ChainedExistence -- 5/31/2009 11:55:29 AM >

(in reply to ChainedExistence)

Post #: 108

RE: public humiliation? - 5/31/2009 1:01:01 PM

Calandra

Posts: 725
Joined: 11/22/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GYPZYQUEEN
adn what then would you say the high truth/higher power is..??
in your BDSM "religion"?

I am pagan. I feel that there are many higher powers/deities, etc... Sometimes in ritual I address a specific entity, and other times I direct it to the cosmos and feel confident that the One who My ritual/message/request/worship is meant for will receive it.

I am aware that I am a personification of the feminine ... and try to explore all that that means:

Perhaps as a Dominant woman I reflect the goddess in summer in her full power and bloom. As a submissive I am the goddess in Winter when the God is in HIS full power and in order for life to remain in balance I rightly take a supportive, yielding role.

The main point for me is that I was wild, uncertain and unfocused as a young woman - on a self destructive path where I wanted to take as many people as I could down with me. D/s gave me focus and a reason to develop ethics. Finally it was a way to help me to see the world as a safer place where if I followed the rules of my training, I could safely interact in society without running roughshod over "them" and still not cave to them either.

"them" being mainstream society.

_____________________________

Lady Kathryn
Athens, Ga.
House of Phoenix

"Nothing is ever final until you're dead - and even then I'm sure God negotiates" Anjelica Huston in Everafter

(in reply to GYPZYQUEEN)

Post #: 109

RE: public humiliation? - 5/31/2009 8:50:37 PM

HeavansKeeper

Posts: 1254
Joined: 5/14/2007
Status: offline

Jeptha,

I understand that children model behavior, and that explaining advertising is easier than explaining a D/s relationship. Just because it's difficult to explain to a child doesn't mean it should be hidden. Other difficult things to explain to children:

Why mommy and daddy don't sleep in the same room.
Why you're not allowed to see uncle Carl anymore.
Why the homeless man in camo jacket is missing his leg.
Why your friend Jeffrey has two daddies and no mommy.
Why the guy who takes the movie tickets can't stand up.

I prefer the natural method. Uncomfortable situations will come up, inevitably. The ones that are most common will come up more. As an issue comes up more, it deserves more parental explanation. It's like taking a representative sample of the child's world. It's not like I'm advocating the in depth explanation of power exchange and fetishistic lifestyle. "It makes them happy, different things make different couples happy" is a sufficient explanation. If the child is curious, it will ask more specified questions.

_____________________________

The Loving Owner of HisHeavan

... You've waited your whole life for this moment...

(in reply to Jeptha)

Post #: 110

RE: public humiliation? - 5/31/2009 10:52:48 PM

variation30

Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

Some people may gripe about your "exposing unwilling participants visually to your kink" but it's dynamically no different from many people that would be offended by same sex couples kissing in public.

bingo.

or interracial couples...or hell...any couples showing public displays of affection.

I do, however, keep such displays in adult settings, like bars or parties.

_____________________________

all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 111

RE: public humiliation? - 5/31/2009 10:59:45 PM

variation30

Posts: 1190
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: Alabama
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadySweetOrSour

...doesn't really give you the right to impose your fetishes on others, especially where UM's are concerned.

Why is it that, in a community built of people who espouse all varieties of WIITWD styles, expressions of our own personal dynamics are seemingly always immediately treated as "impositions" onto the general public?

Do a whole bunch of us still have some pseudo-catholic guilt/shame about what it is we're sharing...to where we're still more prone to treat it as the dirty secrets we keep in our closet rather than beautiful facets of how we are as individuals?

Maybe I'm just speaking from the perspective of someone who's more 24/7 lifestyle oriented rather than someone who's just into the kink-play aspect of it, though...

it's about respecting property, when you're on private property, you know what is and is not acceptable (as the owners will let you know if it is a problem (like the couple being asked off of the bus). when you're on 'public' property, though...things are a little more blurry.

_____________________________

all the good ones are collared or lesbians.

or old.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 112

RE: public humiliation? - 6/1/2009 8:23:31 AM

Jeptha

Posts: 780
Joined: 9/18/2008
From: Portland, Oregon
Status: offline

You know, I recently did see a young goth couple where the girl had the boy on a leash, and it was no big deal. They were just out for a walk.

I guess what I was wondering in the back of my mind is; Is there a line over which it would be poor form to cross...and if so, where is that line?

Wearing a collar - no big deal. It's a symbol. Like a ring or other article of clothing or jewelry. I guess it's about the same thing with wearing a collar and leash.

_____________________________

...YOU KNOW HOW I LIKE MY PORK CHOPS!
- - - - - - -
"....(somewhere) therein lies the truthiness..."
~*~*~*~*
http://www.myspace.com/crocusofiron

(in reply to HeavansKeeper)

Post #: 113

RE: public humiliation? - 6/1/2009 12:15:46 PM

slavekal

Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline

I agree that my locked chain/collar is no different than someone wearing a cross or wedding ring. I have been waiting to whip out that argument if anyone expresses offense. It's just my tough luck that everyone loves my chain. They all think it's cool.

_____________________________

"The Courage to Submit: the submissive male's guide to finding a dominant woman"
http://www.lulu.com/product/paperback/the-courage-to-submit-the-guide-for-the-submissive-male-seeking-a-dominant-woman/5968917

(in reply to Jeptha)

Post #: 114

RE: public humiliation? - 6/2/2009 6:36:10 AM

missturbation

Posts: 8290
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: another planet
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quote:

Misst - my points wasn't about offending, or what was intentional. Both can be happliy seperated and to me, by stating the above, you are trying to alter what you initially said. You made the distinction of intentional offense. That is specific.
To do something intentionally is part of the goal. It's is the outcome that matters. That is the meaning of intent.

To go back to something i said earlier i like to wear tennis skirts in summer. I KNOW that by doing so i am going to cause some people offence, i have in the past, despite wearing huggggggggge knickers underneath them. If i go out in one today i know there is going to be someone offended, so i have to make a judgement call, to wear or not to wear. If i wear it knowing i will offend there is intent to offend however small.

quote:

You may be intentionally wanting to offend people by going out with a bruised face, if that is your ultimate goal. But if you simply have to go get milk, that's just bad timing.

I've never known a bruise to offend unless i state how i got it and then yes i am aware i may be causing intentional offence. I have to make a choice in that situation whether the risk of causing offence is worth it or i should just fib.

< Message edited by missturbation -- 6/2/2009 6:39:50 AM >

_____________________________

What you don't witness with your eyes, don't witness with your mouth. Proverb.

If it fit's in a toaster, i can cook it.

Buying 10 item's or less is not shopping !!

(in reply to RCdc)

Post #: 115

RE: public humiliation? - 6/2/2009 7:35:04 AM

agirl

Posts: 4530
Joined: 6/14/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: colouredin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

See now.. I don't see myself as lifestyle. I am not just this, nor do I identify as being sub so deeply that I can only show myself to be sub to all.
For me, there is life as is. I dont have to crow about it.
Kyst

I do not think that being comfortable in who you are and wanting to express yourself in your own way necessarily equates to 'crowing' about it. I also do not think that the.darkness was trying to say that all she is is submissive, if that is what she was trying to say then she was lying.

It was part of being a parent to explain how male/male gays have sex...Seeing two men being affectionate in the same way hets are, prompted the questions. I'd much rather, at that point, have had the task of explaining some outward sign of D/s.

Even if we come across people being obviously *out there* in their expression, it's just my job to explain it the best way I can. I'm not here to protect my offspring from things they're going to bump into, but just to give them a basic and frank explanation as I see it.

There are loads of things that I've had to talk about that I'd probably rather not...more for my own comfort than theirs, but the world wasn't arranged around me or my kids and they have to live in it, regardless.

It's a matter of outlook......Today, tomorrow, next week or next year , they are going to *see* things they don't find easily understandable or might cause them discomfort. Watching the news, reading the newspaper, hearing about sexually abused and slain babies isn't fun to explain either, and FAR more difficult than explaining or describing a D/s relationship, and some of the things it may or may not entail.

agirl

(in reply to colouredin)

Post #: 116

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