RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK

RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (Full Version)

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antipode -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 2:25:01 PM)
quote: What browser are you using? It is not the browser. Go to Java.com, download the latest flavour of Java, and all will be well.

ShaharThorne -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 2:28:45 PM)
Java 6.14 came out last night.

antipode -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 2:33:24 PM)
quote: my profession includes involving myself in other people's problems That is a bad excuse for sticking your nose where it does not belong. Whether you approve or not, outside your professional expertise, everybody has a right to make wrong choices. Not calling them on it, hard though that may be, is called respect. My senior editor (in Amsterdam) once lectured me on that, when I was about to fire a secretary who had told me she was doing coke, and she was getting the coke from an in-building dealer, and she would not tell me who it was. If you are using the standards of your profession to judge (JUDGE) people who have in no way subjected themselves to your ministrations, you should re-examine your interpretation of your societal responsibilities.

antipode -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 2:38:27 PM)
quote: what on earth do you consider to be a "soft drug"? There are, and we recognize this pretty much, no "hard" or "soft" drugs. There are only drugs, and the gamut runs from aspirine to heroine.

PyrotheClown -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 2:46:31 PM)
Not to mention that it never helps to fix the "problem". Drug addicts never truly kick the habit till THEY decide to do so.. It's always advisable to express "tough love" with a loved one, and to be careful as to not become an enabler, but it must always be done with the upmost respect and consideration.

Fitznicely -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 3:27:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: antipode quote: my profession includes involving myself in other people's problems That is a bad excuse for sticking your nose where it does not belong. Whether you approve or not, outside your professional expertise, everybody has a right to make wrong choices. Not calling them on it, hard though that may be, is called respect. [edit, cos I just thought of it :)] Isn't the definition of answering a post on these forums "sticking your nose in where it doesn't belong"? People who post here must surely accept that people will have opinions and reactions to what they post. Some stronger than others. You've got me bang to rights. I admit, I don't have a hell of a lot of respect for someone who uses drugs, meaning coke, heroin, etc and all their deadly derivatives (don't call me on it, I'm not getting into that again, you KNOW what I'm talking about)...whether it be in or out of a scene, recreationally or as a habit. Let's face it, they can't have much respect for themselves. Yes, that's a sweeping generalisation. I don't apologise for it. I do have a very strong "live and let live" attitude, but fucking yourself up on drugs? Hard limit. I can't stand by and say nothing. It's not a lack of respect that leads me to say something when I know someone's "using". More, it's an overabundance of concern. quote: My senior editor (in Amsterdam) once lectured me on that, when I was about to fire a secretary who had told me she was doing coke, and she was getting the coke from an in-building dealer, and she would not tell me who it was. THAT is fucked up. I know it's fashionable, or at least acceptable to be coked up at work, but that's just fucked up. That's not a lesson in respect. It really isn't. quote: If you are using the standards of your profession to judge (JUDGE) people who have in no way subjected themselves to your ministrations, you should re-examine your interpretation of your societal responsibilities. I'm not using the standards of my profession, trust me on that. It's just basic concern that kicks in whenever I see someone in danger. If i can do something, or say something, in the hope that it'll make a difference, isn't that better than saying nothing and allowing the bad situation to continue?

PyrotheClown -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 3:34:52 PM)
quote: isn't that better than saying nothing and allowing the bad situation to continue? haha, yeah, but how many times have you found that calling some one out on their addictions have actually gotten results "You're a coke addict!" "oh really, I didn't know that, I thought the noose bleeds after I snorted that line of chalk was just a coincidence, why thank you kind sir...." lol

DomImus -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 3:52:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Toppingfrmbottom I don't edge play, but I do support other's privileges of playing how they want, as long as it's in private, in their own homes or other private location, and not a club where the club could get shut down. This sums up my feelings pretty well as far as hard and fast rules are concerned. I have no problem allowing the Joneses to do whatever they wish in the privacy of their own home. Does playing under the influence heighten certain risks? It very possibly does. Do I have the right to deny the Joneses from taking such risks? I don't believe so. To suggest otherwise is the height of arrogance.

Fitznicely -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 4:03:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PyrotheClown quote: isn't that better than saying nothing and allowing the bad situation to continue? haha, yeah, but how many times have you found that calling some one out on their addictions have actually gotten results "You're a coke addict!" "oh really, I didn't know that, I thought the noose bleeds after I snorted that line of chalk was just a coincidence, why thank you kind sir...." lol LOL, well y'know, I do tend to be more subtle than that [:)]

SmokingGun82 -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 4:40:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Fitznicely You've got me bang to rights. I admit, I don't have a hell of a lot of respect for someone who uses drugs, meaning coke, heroin, etc and all their deadly derivatives (don't call me on it, I'm not getting into that again, you KNOW what I'm talking about)...whether it be in or out of a scene, recreationally or as a habit. Let's face it, they can't have much respect for themselves. Yes, that's a sweeping generalisation. I don't apologise for it. This is what lost me... do complete junkies have self-respect? Probably not. Does someone who smokes a j once a year with his college friends? Or someone who does a line when they're partying but would never think of going to work fucked up? If we're lumping all drugs together, what about someone who has a beer at a ballgame? Or who takes a non-prescribed Valium when their back hurts? There are a lot of shades of gray in the world. Whether or not I condone drug use, I don't understand how enjoying a good high means someone has no self-respect. Which isn't really meant to be a snotty comment- more of I'm curious how that logic even works.

IrishMist -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 4:58:39 PM)
quote: WOULD you scene on drugs? No Nor would I allow another to touch me who had been using

SlyStone -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 5:04:00 PM)
I do have a very strong "live and let live" attitude, but fucking yourself up on drugs? Hard limit. I can't stand by and say nothing. It's not a lack of respect that leads me to say something when I know someone's "using". More, it's an overabundance of concern. I think your concern is genuine but the problem with this statement is that while you may be well meaning in regard to your hard limit for drugs, your next door neighbor may have a well meaning hard limit for men who beat woman, and doesn't differentiate BDSM from abuse, and his neighbor may have a hard limit for people who play loud music and so on and so on. Sometimes people act in unacceptable ways that affect others around them and good people do get involved and limits are enforced, but I think it is best to take each situation as it comes and try not to make blanket judgments, because in the end, what sane consenting adults do behind closed doors is really none of your concern at all.

Fitznicely -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 5:04:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SmokingGun82 quote: ORIGINAL: Fitznicely You've got me bang to rights. I admit, I don't have a hell of a lot of respect for someone who uses drugs, meaning coke, heroin, etc and all their deadly derivatives (don't call me on it, I'm not getting into that again, you KNOW what I'm talking about)...whether it be in or out of a scene, recreationally or as a habit. Let's face it, they can't have much respect for themselves. Yes, that's a sweeping generalisation. I don't apologise for it. This is what lost me... do complete junkies have self-respect? Probably not. Does someone who smokes a j once a year with his college friends? Or someone who does a line when they're partying but would never think of going to work fucked up? I've never seen the appeal of getting high - aside from the very rare J and just as rare drink...The way I see it, my mind is the single greatest asset I have. I don't want to go fucking with it. quote: There are a lot of shades of gray in the world. Whether or not I condone drug use, I don't understand how enjoying a good high means someone has no self-respect. Which isn't really meant to be a snotty comment- more of I'm curious how that logic even works. Simple really, I have too much respect for myself to allow myself to be that out of control. Whether it's a passing thing, or a habit, I can't see how you can retain self esteem, self respect, and fuck your perceptions up to that degree. To paraphrase Holly, if the party's so dull I have to do a line to enjoy it, it's a pretty crappy party.

SmokingGun82 -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 5:07:10 PM)
Ah, when phrased as a "It's not for me" thing, I get it. And although I still believe it's possible to have self respect and to dabble in drugs, I still thank you for a different opinion.

Fitznicely -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 5:15:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SlyStone I do have a very strong "live and let live" attitude, but fucking yourself up on drugs? Hard limit. I can't stand by and say nothing. It's not a lack of respect that leads me to say something when I know someone's "using". More, it's an overabundance of concern. I think your concern is genuine but the problem with this statement is that while you may be well meaning in regard to your hard limit for drugs, your next door neighbor may have a well meaning hard limit for men who beat woman, and doesn't differentiate BDSM from abuse, and his neighbor may have a hard limit for people who play loud music and so on and so on. Sometimes people act in unacceptable ways that affect others around them and good people do get involved and limits are enforced, but I think it is best to take each situation as it comes and try not to make blanket judgments, because in the end, what sane consenting adults do behind closed doors is really none of your concern at all. Granted. If, however, they offer their actions up for public appraisal, as with a posting on a message board, opinions will be voiced. In the case of my concern for people who edge play or RACK play while high on something serious, I can't help feeling that, if they're asking for help or advice, then they should be ready to hear it, and open to changing themselves on the basis of what they've heard, however frank and unwelcome it may be.

Aynne88 -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 5:35:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: antipode quote: my profession includes involving myself in other people's problems That is a bad excuse for sticking your nose where it does not belong. Whether you approve or not, outside your professional expertise, everybody has a right to make wrong choices. Not calling them on it, hard though that may be, is called respect. My senior editor (in Amsterdam) once lectured me on that, when I was about to fire a secretary who had told me she was doing coke, and she was getting the coke from an in-building dealer, and she would not tell me who it was. If you are using the standards of your profession to judge (JUDGE) people who have in no way subjected themselves to your ministrations, you should re-examine your interpretation of your societal responsibilities. Exactly. Determine your own problems, not mine. I am an adult and I find these draconian drug laws and judgemental opinions stupid. If, on occasion, I want to elevate, enhance, or whatever my mood/mindset it is none of your business. It is only the permission and and acceptance of one person that matters, and I see far bigger "problems" than this. Nice point of view Antipode. :) Not everyone that is a rare and recreational partaker in "soft" drugs has a problem. Overly judgemental people do though. It's called self righteousness. Save it for the Sunday service.

SlyStone -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 5:46:08 PM)
quote: quote: ORIGINAL: SlyStone I do have a very strong "live and let live" attitude, but fucking yourself up on drugs? Hard limit. I can't stand by and say nothing. It's not a lack of respect that leads me to say something when I know someone's "using". More, it's an overabundance of concern. I think your concern is genuine but the problem with this statement is that while you may be well meaning in regard to your hard limit for drugs, your next door neighbor may have a well meaning hard limit for men who beat woman, and doesn't differentiate BDSM from abuse, and his neighbor may have a hard limit for people who play loud music and so on and so on. Sometimes people act in unacceptable ways that affect others around them and good people do get involved and limits are enforced, but I think it is best to take each situation as it comes and try not to make blanket judgments, because in the end, what sane consenting adults do behind closed doors is really none of your concern at all. Granted. If, however, they offer their actions up for public appraisal, as with a posting on a message board, opinions will be voiced. In the case of my concern for people who edge play or RACK play while high on something serious, I can't help feeling that, if they're asking for help or advice, then they should be ready to hear it, and open to changing themselves on the basis of what they've heard, however frank and unwelcome it may be. Now I am confused; when you said you "can't stand by and say nothing" I assumed you were being literal. So are you saying that you would only become involved if someone HERE asked for your advice or are you saying that you consider it to be unacceptable behavior and you would intervene and say something if you knew someone was using, period?

Fitznicely -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 6:20:22 PM)
I have intervened, yes, and not just if I knew someone was using. I'm not gonna go into details cos it's 2am and that pillow looks mighty tempting. suffice to say all care, thoughtfulness and communicative skills were employed to facilitate a meaningful and welcome outcome. What I don't do is go stomping into random people's living rooms and go "Stop it!". That'd just be stupid.

ChasingOblivion -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 6:20:28 PM)
Personally, I think "drugs," is just too broad a term. Caffeine and alcohol (as other posters have mentioned) are perfectly legal drugs that can still profoundly affect behavior. Marijuana, cocaine, meth, etc. are all illegal, but markedly different in their effects and addictiveness. I know plenty of people (myself included) who have no problem with smoking pot, but won't have anything to do with meth (or other "hard" drugs) because they're basically poison. I grew up in a very repressive environment, and I suffer from severe social anxiety disorder. Whenever I play with a new person, or in a new environment, if I don't have something to take the edge off I'm too panicked to enjoy it. Also, since my panic attacks tend to come with bad headaches and violent involuntary muscle spasms, not having a few drinks or smoking a joint could be a lot more dangerous. Especially if I jerk at the wrong time. In my case, it has nothing to do with self-respect and everything to do with enjoyment. You can't really enjoy much of anything when your head is pounding and you can't breathe from a panic attack.

PyrotheClown -> RE: Drugs, Edgeplay and RACK (6/12/2009 6:27:59 PM)
quote: but won't have anything to do with meth (or other "hard" drugs) because they're basically poison. Fun fact, the excess solution material in the production of meth can BURN HOLES INTO CEMENT....

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