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RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 1:55:46 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgTshESqXcE&feature=fvw

Hey is this an incident on the back of the OP?

I can't tell.

angel

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(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 2:11:52 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline 		Good posts, Marie. You're making a good argument here. I'm a little shocked at the incredible emotional over-reaction by some posters to such a benign OP. All the guy does is post a Youtube link, and the next thing you know he's called out as a hypocrite and a menace to society. Granted, I disagree with him quite a bit myself on issues of crime and punishment, but the way the poor bastard has been demonized in this thread is way over the top. I don't care what his posting history is, this kind of response is disproportionate and out of context. People need to take a step back and a deep breath.

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

Barelynangel

Sorry but running for office when you are 21 and its now 12 years later and you are so passionate and negative about a system willing to generalize a group of people whose motive for being is really to help and not harm, won't make the change you complain about.


I don't see this as a viable argument, but I sure do see it a lot of the boards.  The trend seems to be "if you're not doing something to change it, then you have no right to discuss it or complain about it".  I have to disagree with this.  This is a discussion forum, we might talk about things from whether or not cigarettes should be taxed, whether or not fat people should pay more for airline tickets, whether or not slavery should be legal, whether or not some cops suck, or the legal system sucks, and on and on and on.   And most of us are not lobbying to change these things. 

Not everyone is in a position in their lives to fight every cause that they have a strong opinion on.  This whole "if you're not doing something about it, then you have no right to complain" has become a bottom line generic "argument" that strategically puts a person on the defense, and derails the actual topic. 

Seems to me this is a topic about cops who have transgressed, not whether or not slaveboy has run for office.



You're right, that's seldom a very relevant argument. And it's particularly weak in this discussion. The guy was called out and checked for credentials, and he provided them. Sounds to me like he's done a lot more to effect change in his community than most people on this forum, and yet that's still not enough - he's maligned even more vehemently because he's not lobbying in Washington, for christ's sake. This is absurd. Every single one of has a mental list of things we don't like about the world in which we live, but that doesn't mean we're all hypocrites if we don't spend every waking hour campaigning on behalf of those causes. The guy's catching way more grief here than he's got coming to him, and he's making some pretty well-reasone arguments in the midts of it all despite the flak he's catching - arguments that unfortunately  seem to be sailing right over the heads of the people who are jumping on him.




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RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 2:18:58 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

If someone is going to advocate a mindset that puts OTHERS in danger by advocating said mindsets towards a set group of people (i.e., police officers) BECAUSE someone doesn't approve of the SYSTEM  this group of people enforce because its the law for now -- then yeah, to me what they are choosing to do to CHANGE THE SYSTEM --



How is he putting people in danger?


Because anytime someone decides to play street laywer on the side of the road to complicate the cop's already complicated and dangerous job, they place the cop in danger.


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(in reply to marie2)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 2:24:12 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
My Grandfather used to say it takes 100 attaboys, to equal one mess up. So for every bad cop, it makes 100 more look bad. If law enforcement wants to improve their image, then the core has to be fixed. The Blue Wall has to be pierced, and cops need to stop making exceptions to the policies, procedures, and sometimes laws that apply to them. Their fellow officers need to pressure the one's causing a problem, to stop doing it. The unfortunate part is this will not occur. The job usually makes someone jaded, and they often start looking at many people as a "perp".

Perception becomes truth, when no one shows it to be otherwise.


I don't know where you live, but here the blue wall is all but gone. Our new police chief came in and cleaned house. We hear police department-released stories in the media of another couple of cops being fired. The chief is TOUGH, and of course he needs to be. There is no blue wall here at all.


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RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 2:29:25 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Good posts, Marie. You're making a good argument here. I'm a little shocked at the incredible emotional over-reaction by some posters to such a benign OP. All the guy does is post a Youtube link, and the next thing you know he's called out as a hypocrite and a menace to society. Granted, I disagree with him quite a bit myself on issues of crime and punishment, but the way the poor bastard has been demonized in this thread is way over the top. I don't care what his posting history is, this kind of response is disproportionate and out of context. People need to take a step back and a deep breath.


Wrong. That's not "all he did." As angel has said numerous times, you have to have seen ALL that he did over ALL his posts that pisses us off. You can't come into just one thread and decide he's the hapless victim. You know, if you click his profile, you can read each and every post he's ever made, up to and including his sympathy for criminals over VICTIMS.

THAT is why he's reacted to in the way he is.


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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 2:29:56 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		I notice you did not respond to any of the substance in my post. Guess that would be a little difficult for you. You always take and make things personal barelynangel, for as long as I have been reading these forums. Nothing new there.


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

chuckles, the guy has the nerve to talk about chips on their shoulders.  Orion, if you have a mirror in your house find one and you may realize you are the pot.

I won't be responding to you anymore as you aren't worth my time, there are more interesting people to discuss with even if its people who completely disagree with me so if you want to continue with your theories of ME on a personal level enjoy, i think that shows your maturity very well.

Hopefully this ends now instead of you making it all personal which you now have.

angel


< Message edited by OrionTheWolf -- 6/14/2009 2:33:35 PM >

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RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 2:33:19 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		This is what needs to be done everywhere. Also, it takes more than a short while, and a new police chief to get rid of it completely. A couple of friends of mine that are cops have said before "cops just keep it more quiet.".


quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

I don't know where you live, but here the blue wall is all but gone. Our new police chief came in and cleaned house. We hear police department-released stories in the media of another couple of cops being fired. The chief is TOUGH, and of course he needs to be. There is no blue wall here at all.



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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 2:40:40 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

This is what needs to be done everywhere. Also, it takes more than a short while, and a new police chief to get rid of it completely. A couple of friends of mine that are cops have said before "cops just keep it more quiet.".


Oh he's definitely got a reputation. Good cops love him, the people love his work. HE's the sherrif of the police force. If an action taken by one of his people was correct, he will defend them tooth and nail......if not....no force on this earth is going to save their job.


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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 2:54:17 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

If someone is going to advocate a mindset that puts OTHERS in danger by advocating said mindsets towards a set group of people (i.e., police officers) BECAUSE someone doesn't approve of the SYSTEM  this group of people enforce because its the law for now -- then yeah, to me what they are choosing to do to CHANGE THE SYSTEM --



How is he putting people in danger?


Because anytime someone decides to play street laywer on the side of the road to complicate the cop's already complicated and dangerous job, they place the cop in danger.



Street lawyer on the side of the road?

Who exactly did that?

I think in your tireless efforts to attack the original poster you have lost sight of what the story was about.

First, why was an emergency vehicle transporting a patient pulled over to begin with?

Second, if there was a valid reason, which I have yet to see stated anywhere, why was the patient not made the first priority?



(in reply to Loki45)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 3:08:24 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

Good posts, Marie. You're making a good argument here. I'm a little shocked at the incredible emotional over-reaction by some posters to such a benign OP. All the guy does is post a Youtube link, and the next thing you know he's called out as a hypocrite and a menace to society. Granted, I disagree with him quite a bit myself on issues of crime and punishment, but the way the poor bastard has been demonized in this thread is way over the top. I don't care what his posting history is, this kind of response is disproportionate and out of context. People need to take a step back and a deep breath.


Wrong. That's not "all he did." As angel has said numerous times, you have to have seen ALL that he did over ALL his posts that pisses us off. You can't come into just one thread and decide he's the hapless victim. You know, if you click his profile, you can read each and every post he's ever made, up to and including his sympathy for criminals over VICTIMS.

THAT is why he's reacted to in the way he is.



As I said a couple of times, I have seen his other posts. And I've disagreed with many of them, often quite strongly.

But two things. First of all, as disturbing as i find some of his previous positions to be, I happen to like and respect the guy quite a bit. I think he's a very decent, well-meaning, goodhearted man who is sometimes very wrong about issues relating to the justice system, and who I hope has (upon further reflection) reconsidered those positions. And second, despite my strong disagreement with some of his past arguments, I somehow don't feel the emotional need to stalk him around the forums savaging him every time he says a single word about anything relating to crime or the police. Others apparently feel differently. I'm not sure why.

< Message edited by ThatDamnedPanda -- 6/14/2009 3:09:23 PM >

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In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?


(in reply to Loki45)
Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 3:09:57 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Street lawyer on the side of the road?

Who exactly did that?

I think in your tireless efforts to attack the original poster you have lost sight of what the story was about.

First, why was an emergency vehicle transporting a patient pulled over to begin with?

Second, if there was a valid reason, which I have yet to see stated anywhere, why was the patient not made the first priority?


Just as angel has said before, this issue spans far beyond just this post. Read them all, then you will know. I'm not re-typing them all for each new person.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 3:12:17 PM   
ShaharThorne


Posts: 11071
Joined: 2/24/2009
From: Somewhere in TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

First, why was an emergency vehicle transporting a patient pulled over to begin with?

Second, if there was a valid reason, which I have yet to see stated anywhere, why was the patient not made the first priority?



Those are the questions that I have and are people aware that there are 2 videos...the dash cam and the 2nd one shot by the relatives of the patient.

From what I heard from the dash cam, the deputy was cussing out the EMTs for not pulling over when he has his lights on. What about the 911 call that encourage the deputy to be speeding in the first place? In Dallas a few months ago, an officer was placed on leave becuase he was speeding and killed a child who was out after dark (it was discovered the street lights were broken as well). When I was transferred to a hospital by the police in Tennessee, they were speeding but I was not in my rational mind to complain.

Lumping a few bad apples into an entire group of good ones is wrong. The ones who I have encounter have been courteous to me because I respect them for their jobs. Heck, one played with my um until I could get my mom home to care for her and I was taken in for a minor crime (hot checks, got to feed the family you know).

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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 3:12:25 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda
First of all, as disturbing as i find some of his previous positions to be, I happen to like and respect the guy quite a bit.


And this is where we differ.

As for stalking him, that's silly. There were three posts (which appeared in the rotating display on collarme) that caught my eye. Two I didn't know where his until I clicked them. This one is him posting 'one example' of the things he was complaining about in the other thread, so naturally those who disagreed in that thread will also reply in this thread.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 3:14:42 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		 What Orion wasn't i accomodating in what you really wanted me to respond too? You mean you didn't want me to read and see your personal attack at the beginning of your post and respond?   My bad.  Maybe next time i will read to the end where your substantive discussion is.

angel

_____________________________


What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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(in reply to rulemylife)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 3:25:39 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		As for my initial post in this thread -- yes it was comming off a discussion we had in another thread.  the Op gave as good as he got in both threads.  I am sure he will again.  We all know he is not a saint and he gives discussions where people agree and disagree with him usualy very extreme wise from what i have seen.  Unfortunately, i disagee with him.   I think that is allowed otherwise people wouldn't feel free to disagree with me. 

I do feel strongly that people who concentrate more on the negative will give as a whole negative and to me that puts good cops in danger as does generalizing.  I agree bad cops should be held accountable.  But i don't believe good Men should be put in danger because of a few and those who want to make them all bad and generalizations.

If people can't understand this, then cops will always have to watch their back, and fight many tmes the very people they are trying to protect because of what bad cops did.   It simply makes it harder for everyone.  Cops don't trust the public but many times has to rely on them and the public doesn't trust BUT relies on the cops.

I simply want everyone safe -- my cops and my crimiinals lol.  Imagine having to be in the middle of THAT.
angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 6/14/2009 3:28:23 PM >

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 3:30:11 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Let me ask you this -- would it not have gotten the patient on the road a lot faster if the people would have just cooperated instead of fighting with the cop?  Instead everyone sat around arguing and pushing and shoving, calling names, and saying don't you talk to so and so like that.  There were three ambulance guys right? Why didn't one of them get on the radio and explain what was happening and get someone to contact the officer?

That is my point kinda -- if people cooperate instead of fight -- things may be resolved differently. 

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 6/14/2009 3:32:08 PM >

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 3:36:37 PM   
rulemylife


Posts: 14614
Joined: 8/23/2004
Status: offline
quote:



ORIGINAL: Loki45

Just as angel has said before, this issue spans far beyond just this post. Read them all, then you will know. I'm not re-typing them all for each new person.



Well, to begin, just because I haven't responded on the thread before now doesn't mean I haven't followed it.

And I'm hardly a "new person", but what you've done is completely hijack SB's thread for your own personal vendetta against what you believe his intentions were while completely ignoring the story at hand, which I think deserves a great deal of discussion.

I, for one, would not want a sick loved one sitting on the side of the road when the emergency was dire enough to call an ambulance in the first place.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 6/14/2009 3:38:56 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 3:38:04 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Let me ask you this -- would it not have gotten the patient on the road a lot faster if the people would have just cooperated instead of fighting with the cop?  Instead everyone sat around arguing and pushing and shoving, calling names, and saying don't you talk to so and so like that.  There were three ambulance guys right? Why didn't one of them get on the radio and explain what was happening and get someone to contact the officer?

That is my point kinda -- if people cooperate instead of fight -- things may be resolved differently. 

angel


The same breakdown occured in Plano, Tx. Someone rushing to the hospital to be with a dying relative was stopped by a cop for running a red light. Instead of waiting in the car and explaining the situation, the guy (and the whole family) leaps from the car....two rush into the hospital while the driver persists and arguing repeatedly with the cop in a very loud voice.

No one ever takes responsibility for their actions, especially when doing so would prevent their lawsuit from getting through the front door of the courthouse.


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RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 3:38:33 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgTshESqXcE&feature=fvw

Hey is this an incident on the back of the OP?

I can't tell.

angel


This one deserved it's own thread. Good work finding it and yet another example of excellent, professional law enforcement in action.

(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Oklahoma Cops Attack Paramedics - 6/14/2009 3:41:25 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Well, to begin, just because I haven't responded on the thread before now doesn't mean I haven't followed it.


No, but the nature of your posts suggest you haven't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
And I'm hardly a "new person", but what you've done is completely hijack SB's thread for your own personal vendetta against what you believe his intentions were while completely ignoring the story at hand, which I think deserves a great deal of discussion.


No, what I have done is followed the path of the discussion. Rather than post the original post of this thread in the previous one, he chose to make a new one, thus extending the original topic beyond the original thread. It happens all the time and does not equate a hijack.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
I, for one, would not want a sick loved one sitting on the side of the road when the emergency was dire enough to call an ambulance in the first place.


There are many reasons that an ambulance may be used for transport and not all of them are dire emergencies. To assume it's an emergency just because it was an ambulance is faulty. The lights weren't even on the thing. If responding to an emergency, an ambulance must have its lights on.


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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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