RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (Full Version)

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oceanwinds -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/16/2009 7:22:21 AM)

[sm=applause.gif][sm=applause.gif]
quote:

ORIGINAL: agirl[sm=goodpost.gif][sm=goodpost.gif]

 fighting for something she either doesn't want, doesn't need and is, possibly, oblivious to.

But, she doesn't let me provide anything for her.
Unless she's bloody-minded, she may not have seen anything you can provide that she can't, or is interested in.

But now, the man in me wants to come out.
Where was he for the last 3 yrs?

I want her to need things from me.
Because it'd make you feel better about yourself? ........but perhaps, not her.

I don't want her to be totally self sufficient.
Because it'd make you feel better about yourself?...but perhaps, not her.

I want her to need things from me.
Because it'd make you feel better about yourself? ....but perhaps, not her.

I do want my girlfriend to be a little submissive to me.
Nothing wrong with that  at all........but you've been more than content with her as she's been thus far.

I just want to be the stronger one in her life.
If you are, then you are. If you're not, then you're not. You can't just *want* it and expect it to occur.

I want to be the rock that she leans on.
If you are, then you are. If she hasn't found she needs you as that, would you like her to pretend to?

A man wants to leader
Certainly, some men do. But you have to have someone who recognises that in YOU and wants it in the way YOU do it.

I want her to be my little girl.
It doesn't look like she does, though.

want to protect her and provide for her and be a man.
All super sentiments if you're with someone that also wants that ....from YOU, in the way you'd do it.

I want to be the Dominant alpha male in her life.
Then you have to find out how to do that...instead of looking at her as slightly faulty.


How can I get my girlfriend to act like a freaking girl?! How do I get her to be a little needy?! Be a little submissive?! Be a WOMAN?!"
If you want someone to *need* you, you have to provide something they need. If you want them to be a *little submissive*, give them something they can be submissive TO. Unless you have an agreement, you'll have to provide it; it doesn't spring out of the ether.

As for the *being a woman* part.....She is.....She's just not fitting your idea of what you WANT as one, at the moment.

Often, when we get what we THINK we want, we find we lose what we had. All that green grass can give you a massive belly-ache, you know.

I wonder what SHE wants?

agirl














masterofholly -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/16/2009 7:25:34 AM)

quote:

I don't want her to be totally self sufficient.
yanno...alot of us do not live with with Mommy and Daddy. We live on our own, and the fact that we do so makes us self sufficient. Regression is not going to happen.

crap...posted on Jims ID



agirl -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/16/2009 7:53:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterofholly

quote:

I don't want her to be totally self sufficient.
yanno...alot of us do not live with with Mommy and Daddy. We live on our own, and the fact that we do so makes us self sufficient. Regression is not going to happen.



I'm not self-sufficient in ALL ways. I'm as needy as can be in SOME ways.....just not THOSE ways.

Open the door for me, pay for my meal, fix may car , fix my pc ...... If i cannot manage it myself and you can...If you WANT to do it and we agreed that's the way it'll be.

I can't pretend to be needy where I'm not. It's time-consuming and incredibly dull after a few days, not to mention a weird and crazy game that will result in a *game* where neither of us would be *ourselves*. I'm just too old for *let's pretend*, especially when I have REAL areas that I'd LOVE and appreciate a bit of help with!

agirl



leadership527 -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/16/2009 8:24:39 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky
My long time girlfriend of 3 years is the love of my life. We have so much fun together. She's my best friend. You can do things with her that you couldn't do with most women. She's the only girl I know who plays basketball well and video games. She never nags me about the toilet seat or the mess I've made once I leave the room. She means everything to me and I hope I can call her me wife one day.

Yeah, except she is NOT the love of his life, obviously, as the rest of the posting goes on to elaborate in careful detail. So right away, the guy is deluding himself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky
But, she doesn't let me provide anything for her.

One of the most aggravating things I can possibly imagine in a relationship so I totally agree with him. For me, at least, I can't imagine why I'd want to be in a relationship with someone wherein I had nothing to offer that other person. But the rest of his writing goes on to show a truly muddled view on humans, women, and submissives. I suspect that muddledness is going to prevent the original OP from fixing this issue. I think his heart is in the right place, but he just isn't really understanding the problem.



Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/16/2009 8:35:57 AM)

Actually I'd tell him if I could, that I think healthy relationships are not about NEEDING each other but WANTING each other, and there's a huge difference.
quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

i'm getting to a point where I don't want her to be totally self sufficient. I want her to need things from me. Because that's what a relationship is based on. Both people being needed by the other.



LaTigresse -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/16/2009 8:39:15 AM)

Agirl said it all perfectly. 



CallaFirestormBW -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/16/2009 9:08:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: WyldHrt

Wow. I'm with LadyP, that last line is really offensive. How does being needy and submissive equate to being a woman?? Some of my faviourite ladies here are Dommes, and I can't imagine anyone who knows them saying such a thing. 
Looks like this couple has a major compatibility issue to me. The fact that they have let it stew for so long without dealing with it one way or the another doesn't bode well for the relationship.



I don't find the last line -offensive-... I find it to be a clear designator of the philosophical/religious/spiritual paradigm of this person. It would let me know that this was a person who is not a good fit for me, in terms of my -own- p/r/s paradigm, but I find no reason to be offended because the man is clear about expressing the foundations of his own paradigm. He is as fully entitled to his paradigm as I am to mine.

Why should it bother me that he sees men and women in those particular frameworks, as long as I am not subjected to his influence? It wouldn't offend me, in any case, and I can honestly say that I wouldn't find it even problematic unless he attempted to force those beliefs on -me-.

Now, that being said, if I were his girlfriend, I -would- be offended... not by his perspective, which he has every right to, but by his apparent dogged persistence in trying to force his perspective on to me. In my mind, this is a situation that would best be remedied by his releasing the relationship he is currently in and finding a woman more inclined to share his p/r/s beliefs.

Dame Calla



leadership527 -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/16/2009 9:41:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse
Agirl said it all perfectly. 

Yeah, she does that a lot, doesn't she. I still need to work into my sig line somehow, "and whatever agirl said, I agree with that too." *laughs*



penitentialarts -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/16/2009 11:06:35 PM)

I hardly see how anything he describes is "emasculating."  It sounds to me like he is insecure.

He entered into the relationship knowing that she was very self-sufficient.  Now he wants to change her.  That isn't any more fair than it is when a woman tries to change a man. 

- Jesse



ZenDragoness -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/17/2009 1:55:54 AM)

I have to second that.

I too read the OP as somebody being insecure. I have a friend who is a very autonomous person with quite radical views of the world. He works as a fencing lecturer. That job does not bring a lot of money, but it was all he wanted to do since we were children.

He once told me: "It is always the same, women fell in love with my autonomous personality and when we are in a relationship they try to change me. That is the start of the end." And he is really right, they fall in love with his untamedness and not greedy personality and then they want to convert him in good husband material.

The opening poster should leave his girlfriend and go look for a woman who wants the same as him, because he will not change her.



Missokyst -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/17/2009 6:05:58 AM)

I completely disagree, most men do not think like this, in or out of ds at least in the USA.  They don't open doors, give away seats on buses, allow someone to walk in first, ect, at least not as much as they used to when I was much younger.  Since moving to the upper part of the state here in Ca I haven't noticed a lot of traditional gentlemen types.  Plus most marriages I see the woman makes as much as the man and is likely to come home from work and do the bulk of the home chores like cooking, washing, cleaning, ect.  My sister makes more than her mate, works longer hours but still comes home to do those house duties.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

He probably thinks that all women are naturally submissive, needy, and nurturing, and happened upon one who isn't. I mean, when you think about it, most men think like this,



LaTigresse -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/17/2009 6:42:37 AM)

Funny, I brought up the OP of this thread to Generic Dude last night on the drive home. He laughed. Loudly. 



agirl -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/17/2009 7:13:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Missokyst

I completely disagree, most men do not think like this, in or out of ds at least in the USA.  They don't open doors, give away seats on buses, allow someone to walk in first, ect, at least not as much as they used to when I was much younger.  Since moving to the upper part of the state here in Ca I haven't noticed a lot of traditional gentlemen types.  Plus most marriages I see the woman makes as much as the man and is likely to come home from work and do the bulk of the home chores like cooking, washing, cleaning, ect.  My sister makes more than her mate, works longer hours but still comes home to do those house duties.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

He probably thinks that all women are naturally submissive, needy, and nurturing, and happened upon one who isn't. I mean, when you think about it, most men think like this,



I'm old enough to have seen a sea-change, not only in the way men behave toward women but in how PEOPLE behave toward each other. I only have a teeny little glimpse of life in my little corner of the world...The man/woman thing aside......I always think that young, selfish men have been predominantly raised by ....women. If attitudes are being perpetuated, we're just as culpable.

If any of my sons gets a bit lippy in that direction, toward ME, M has been known to say . * Oi, pal, she's MY slave ...if you want one, get your own!*..with a glint in his eye and his tongue in his cheek. They tend to get the message, all the same. The message is ..... you don't get what you haven't earned.

agirl



sweetsub1957 -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/17/2009 7:15:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I know you the line says that the questions don't mean to cause anyone offense, but that last paragraph implies that females with Dominant type personalities aren't women.  If whoever wrote the above thinks that way, that women are only submissive types, the author is pretty mistaken.

Maybe that's exactly what he has here.  A female who happens to be more Dominant, or one who is vanilla and leans neither way.



Right on, LadyPact!  i'm with You on this!

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

Well come on now Lady. This is a vanilla guy lol. He probably thinks that all women are naturally submissive, needy, and nurturing, and happened upon one who isn't. I mean, when you think about it, most men think like this, which is why I found this kind of interesting. The way that his friends don't have to worry about this problem because their girlfriends do live up to the common belief about women... He may be mistaken but it seems he's in the majority as far as the world outside of D/s is concerned.


rednicky,
i perved your profile & found out you are a sub fem also.  This is my two cents worth.....or more.  hahahahaha 

Well, just because he's vanilla doesn't mean he has to live in the Dark Ages when it comes to thinking that "all women are naturally submissive, needy, and nurturing," and just because "most men think like this" doesn't make it right.  It's not even necessarilly true that most men think that way.  i know more than a few submissive men.  The last paragraph in the original post is very offensive and i knew the shit would hit the fan, rightfully so. 

The "deal" here is, this guy's relationship started out a standard vanilla relationship w/ an independent woman.....now all of a sudden he's becoming a control freak and wants to control things without compromise, but she doesn't consent to his control so it's not even a bdsm situation, it's just a big, fat disagreement on how they want the relationship to work.  That sounds sooooo much like what my sis and her ex-b/f went through in their vanilla relationship.  So what i would "suggest for this poor sap" is, either they go to relationship counselling to work things out, or else he realize that she is not what he wants & never has been and just move on and make them both happier.  i could say a lot more, but i won't.  [;)]



rednicky -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/17/2009 8:04:30 AM)

Well I never said that men who think like this are right. I simply said that men think like this.



LaTigresse -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/17/2009 8:06:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

Well I never said that men who think like this are right. I simply said that men think like this.


What men? I work with three of them and know many. I cannot think of one, right off the top of my head, that does.



LadyHibiscus -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/17/2009 9:07:35 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

Well I never said that men who think like this are right. I simply said that men think like this.


What men? I work with three of them and know many. I cannot think of one, right off the top of my head, that does.



I guess I am meeting the wrong men, too...  Maybe SOME 20 yr old men think like this? 



rednicky -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/17/2009 11:12:11 AM)

Maybe. but men think like this. It's not like the idea just fell out of the sky.



SteelofUtah -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/17/2009 11:24:13 AM)

Some do maybe but not all of them.

By you making that statement every man you run into you already believe they think like this and you don't even know them.

I have a Penis, I am a Man, I do NOT think like the OP.

I am in a Power Based Relationship because it WORKS not because I have a need to Dominate a Person but because I am dominant in nature and the person I choose to be with is submisisve in nature.

You seem to have it in your head that Men in general want to dominate Women in general and if that is the case then I can tell you there are far more exceptions to that then there are that make the rule.

Seriously, you might want to step back from many of your generalizations and see the forest for the trees because you will do nothing more than judge people poorly and create situations in which your unbalances opinions create false realities for those who choose to be around you.

Not all Anyone does ANYTHING. People are strange creatures and it is their ability to be unique in the face of common belief that makes them so special. By Judgeing with no basis for understanding you fail to see people who who they are and assume they are all what you think they are and well that just shows someone who perfers to live in their own world and ignore the one that is existing all around them.

Steel



LaTigresse -> RE: A very interesting question I found online :D (6/17/2009 1:19:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rednicky

Maybe. but men think like this. It's not like the idea just fell out of the sky.


Come to Iowa City Iowa, I would be happy to introduce you to many men that do not think like this at all. You need to start hanging out with a better class of men.



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