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Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:03:32 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Hey guys it's another one of those threads where everyone is going to disagree on the subject or take ot to an us versus them.

This isn't what I want but I have gotten used to Threads evolving without regard to established point.

That being said I have noticed a lot of Martyrs in the Lifestyle Lately. On All sorts of things but none so much as what they REQUIRE. What something MUST be for them to surrender or take control of. I see it more offten in submissives then I do in Dominants and I for the most part can understand that. However where I get lost is the desire they have to find someone however the archetype the have for thaty person makes them like finding a needle in a stack of needles when all the needles are the same and the one they are looking for isn't maked in any way, and then yet they also say they are not willing to reach in and start looking because they don't want to get stuck by a needle that isn't the one they are looking for.

Did I lose you?

Okay So "Bob" is looking for the "HIS" Perfect sub, but he has been burned by subs in the past so he comes up with this process that for the past 3 years NOT ONE has managed to live up to his standard and won't even try to have a relationship with any of the ones who have shown they are interested because they do not meet his EXACT preference. So he talks about being lonely and talks about looking for the one, and spends long periods of time getting to know people who in the end won't meet his impossible standard.

When this is pointed out to him all he says is "I know what I want and I won't settle for anything less"

Good Excuse that way he can spend his entire life never really getting to know anyone (Thanks Good Will Hunting)

I can say for near Certain all these people who say they know exactly what they want ..... are full of SHIT. I believe they know what the DON'T want and figure the Opposite of that is what they DO want.

Why do I believe this? Because I was one of those people. I was a Martyr for personal desire and would rather die than accept anything that wasn't perfect. I went for women who were this or that because I thought that was what I wanted when in reality, Life is a Fickle Bitch of a Mistress and I ended up married to someone who has all the things I said I would never get involved with. She is younger than me, She is in recovery, and she is a Fucking God Damned Hippie........ and she is the best thing that ever happened to me.

Had I stuck to my guns I would have let her pass me by and instead I decided to take a chance and see how things happen. In the great scheme of things how long with a person before you get to the point where you realize you don't match that well? a few months? Why not just give them a shot and see what happens you might be surprized at the outcome.

So how do you feel about Lifestyle Martyrdom?

I am curious if you believe it serves a point or if it is a bullshit shield one stands behind too afraid to get hurt?

Steel

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:10:54 AM   
ZenDragoness


Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
Status: offline 		Before i read you OP i have to congratulate you to the title. The term brought vivid picures in my head of people i know and see at munches.

Great!

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:24:19 AM   
ZenDragoness


Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
Status: offline 		So after reading, i think the post is as great as the title. Firstly very good that you were able to see her and let her through all your dreams/images of the ONE. I am happy that your courage proved you right.

And that is what love is all about: Courage. It takes courage to love and live and fight and be with somebody 24/7.

As you i am quite sure that the "That is my iron standard and everybody who do not fit in it is substandard" is a method to avoid the adventure of love. There are studies that suggest that we have in all western societies that developement, because more people are living alone and develop a living system that it makes harder to compromise with somebody else. The studies were made because the question arose why in big cities where it is easier to meet somebody, the number of singles was still significantly higher then outside the cities.

But like you, i have the impression that it is stronger and more forcefully articulated in the BDSM universe. The only reason i can think of is, that if you have certain strongly desired fetishes or practices leads to the idea that everybody who does not belong in exactly the same mould must be a misfit.

< Message edited by ZenDragoness -- 6/25/2009 10:25:08 AM >

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:25:35 AM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		I'm of the opinion that there are a whole variety of reasons for this behavior... none of them conducive to holding a lifelong relationship in tact.

What I know for an absolute fact is that I had a mental view of what I was looking for in a partner when I met Carol. And on a scale of 1-10, she would've scored about a zero *laughs*. Good thing I wasn't very focused on my list.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:28:57 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		Agreed, and although my thread example was based on the Relationship curve I would like to point out that the Munch Scene Crew is filled with many different types of Martyrs.

From the Submission means This and anything else is just wrong

to

Master is something you earn not something you just call yourself.

Talking to these types of people is difficult at times because in their belief you know you are being judged as being less than them because you do not believe as they do and you also know that nothing you say is going to change thier mind on the subject.

I really never understand this mentality.

Any thoughts on why some hold so strictly to the ideas rather than being open to new information?

Steel

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:36:08 AM   
leadership527


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah
Any thoughts on why some hold so strictly to the ideas rather than being open to new information?

One thought.. insecurity.

Consider me for example. I make no bones about it that I would accept virtually any relationship type that I can envision with Carol. I want the woman herself, not some particular flavor of her. I also sense very strongly that I just got taken off the "true dom" list by a fair number of both doms and subs. In my case, however, I don't care. Why would I? I'm already in a happy relationship? But it'd be different if I was still searching.

It's the same answer that makes me not care what label someone else wants to apply to my relationship. Because I have already won, it no longer matters to me whether I measure up to someone's standard of some arbitrary label. But it surely would matter, at least more, if I was still competing in the mating dance.

I think a lot of people are trying to measure up to whatever vision they hold in their heads as being "most uber". I also think it's way easy for me to not do that given that I already have a person who's declare me "uber enough for them."

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:38:44 AM   
ZenDragoness


Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
Status: offline 		That is very easily explained for me.

As you maybe noticed for yourself, strong opinions create safety. Some people live in a world that is like a medival castle, and changing one of their persuasions means the whole castle will crumble.
Mostly the reason for that behaviour is the wish for safety and the others are only looking for attention.

I noticed that fundamentalism in left wing and gay/lesbian circles too, i believe strongly that being in a minority concerning the society create a higher number of fundamentalists.

For my own well being i never discuss with people like that, because it drives me literally crazy. We talk to exchange and learn and develop each other. This is all not possible with them.

< Message edited by ZenDragoness -- 6/25/2009 10:42:07 AM >

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:41:35 AM   
maia09


Posts: 113
Joined: 6/10/2009
Status: offline 		In my humble opinion, i think the biggest problem is that people are attempting to address a soul quest with their logical reasoning minds. The logical mind says this and that and this and that MUST be in place for me to be fulfilled. The soul listens to itself, disregards the world's scales and measures and just senses what it needs to be fulfilled, oftentimes regardless of what it looks like to the mind.  Thus finding oneself not only with someone who doesn't fit the "perfect picture" but being amazingly happy.

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:41:37 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		I don't know Steel - I personally don't like the use of the word 'martyr' - it implies that their sacrifice is for more than just themselves whereas your example of 'Bob' is an example of a self centred attitude.
 
So for me, martyr confuses the issue?  Maybe I am just misunderstanding your questions.
 
On the subject itself (am going to ignore the wording until you help clear it up for me) I guess I was very focused on what I knew I could deal with - and wanted in a partner.   I wasn't going to settle for anything less.  Maybe I was just really blessed - because I met Master and haven't looked back - because I haven't had to settle.  So for me, it served me well - but then, I do not believe in having perfection or that perfection is in the now.  Perfection only comes at completion.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:44:06 AM   
ZenDragoness


Posts: 372
Joined: 1/21/2006
From: Berlin/Germany
Status: offline 		the.dark,

i am quite sure he used it in a sarcastic way, at least that was what i understood. It is a selfserving matyrdom, a show put on.

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:44:08 AM   
CatdeMedici


Posts: 2257
Joined: 10/20/2008
Status: offline 		Steel: You ALWAYS make Me think--keep it coming--yeah, lifestyle martyrs, major people in denial---in denial of their flaws and hoping to find someone so designed as to overlook those flaws too.
 
I know in My life there are certain things that would just not work--at all. I think we all do, however, I use that as a framework, like a straw subman if you will and hope to fill in the gaps with a real person, so there is wiggle room in there for adaptation---MUTUAL adaptation.
 
 

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 11:11:02 AM   
SteelofUtah


Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline 		I am being rather obtuse with the word but Websters defines Martyr as:


Main Entry:
mar·tyr
Pronunciation:
mär-tər
Function:
noun
Etymology:
Middle English, from Old English, from Late Latin, from Greek martyr-, martys witness
Date:
before 12th century
1: a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion2: a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle3: victim ; especially : a great or constant sufferer <a martyr to asthma all his life — A. J. Cronin> I modify the first example meaning a person who would rather die than change thier belief. You can see it as an exact definition but defining a religion offten comes down to belief. I did not want to turn this thread around into BDSM is a Religion because I do not exactly believe it is, I think there are some similar concepts with BDSM that can be found in Faith but I find there is more that seperate them then there is that keep them together.  When I say Martyr I mean someone who is so sure they are right that the idea of changing that belief is not an option for them for to change that belief would be to believe something that is not true.  In example, For Bob to accept someone that does not meet his fantastic requirements then he is setteling for someone who is not good enough and he would simply not do that, because of this he will be alone because his exact requirements are too limiting.  I am have always been the kind of person to see where things go. If I like someone then I am willing to get to know them to such a degree to see if it would work. It is because of that and ONLY because of that that I ended up in a relationship with andi. She was many things I said I would never get involved with but WHO she was is not WHAT she was and WHO she was was more important than the WHAT.  I have learned this lesson time and time again in life it is the women whom I would normally have passed on that made the biggest impression in my past.  In this lifestyle there seems to be many who are hung up on the Physical or the Belief Process that they aren't even willing to genuinly get to know them, just like there are Dom's who are so sure there is only one way yo do things that they never learn the other aspects that can come from certain activities.  Prime Example: I did not believe I was a Sadist because I did not like hurting people so I made up all sorts of different terms for what I did. I started listening to why people who did consider themselves a Sadist enjoyed it and found that although not everyone felt like me they all got something out of the act of inflicting pain. I may require that my partner receive pleasure from anything that we do but that doesn't make me any less a sadist I just have requirements that make it pleasurable for me.  Steel

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 11:19:08 AM   
wolfschild


Posts: 1
Joined: 4/5/2009
Status: offline 		 bullshit shield one stands behind for fear of getting hurt :)

seriously though.  I think this is such a terrific thing to get out into the world.  People have become so acclimatized to the idea that their perfect "one" is out there somewhere.  And with the ability to search far and wide with such specificity...sometimes I feel like people think they're ordering a sandwich instead of looking for a mate.

< Message edited by wolfschild -- 6/25/2009 11:20:32 AM >

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 11:26:05 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline 		Thanks for responding Steel.  It's my 'issue' really I guess - you have probably seen how fucking annoying I am when it comes to defining what someone means by a word.   I am self analyzing a bit, but I guess I just find the term martyr 'uncomfortable' because I tend to think of people like Joan of Arc and Jesus etc when it comes to martyrdom... and so comparing them to people like you are describing - even in an obtuse way - just makes me icky.  Like I said - my problem - sorry if that came across like a hijack - big apology from me.
 
I think (so it's only a guess)  that it comes down to unrealistic expectations and fear really.  After all, if you actually do end up with what you wanted, then you have to face your own demons and suddenly become responsible - be you d or s.  That is a biggie for lots of people.
 
the.dark.

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 12:04:22 PM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		I don't let fear be a way of protection.  If the root of how I live was based in fear and I build up walls or reasons or sabotoge, then I would need to address the fear or I wouldn't be worth shit to anyone else.  To me, fear is not honest and true and it hides you and other's and I just won't allow fear to guide me.

While I can be sarcastic and hopefully mostly in a way of fun and not hurtful and often coming from me as a funny haha ironic something, I am pretty open to people who are not coming off like they want to take something from me rather than a give and take thing.  I love people.  I love all kinds of people and have had a lot of relationships of all kinds that I am very thankful for.  But... I know what I want in a sense without limiting a person or life too much.  There is a difference in knowing basically the types of things, relationships and qualites a person or situation might present, than having a set mould you have that one must fit into.

I won't settle for less because I know the minimum I need and that is what I expect.  It doesn't come in a hair color or position or bank account or anything else other than personal charactor.  I must have the minimum rather than a high expectation.  If someone has the minimum of what I want in a partner... the rest is a great bonus.  Some flaws must be looked at, but I tend to look at the qualities first, unless the flaws are blatant and really bad.  I have known some amazing people and their flaws were hard or challenging to deal with, but because they were so amazing, it all weighed out and wasn't a problem.

I look for the opprortunity for happy, not the opportunity to be sad.  I may not take Mr. Right for right now, but I am not blind to him.  I just want what I want and that isn't always easy to find and mix with life as it is to whoever it matters.  If I was that lonely, Mr Right for right now might be okay, but I have been there and done that and I want Mr. Fit for me.  He doesn't fit in a box.. he fits me and not because I was lonely.

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 12:17:57 PM   
janiebelle


Posts: 332
Joined: 4/29/2009
Status: offline 		FR

The phenomonon is rampant in many circles, not just this one.
People get disappointed when they have a situation that didn't live up to their expectations, and instead of looking at the big picture, and whether their expectations were or were not reasonable, they decide to go to the opposite extreme and create a whole new set of unrealistic expectations. 
For the life of me, I don't understand that.  How can any intelligent person believe for a minute that in this complex, full, fancy and wonderful world there is only one way to be happy?  I understand disappointment, but come on, just because you can't have that thing does not mean you can't have a good thing.
j

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 12:37:55 PM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline 		I guess I do not see these people the same way you do Steel. In fact, I give more credit to someone that knows what they want and will not "settle" just to be with someone.

Granted, that point of view may be coloured by my feelings about my own situation. Yet, I know I am not at all a martyr. I do not NEED to be with someone to have a happy and fullfilling life. I see it this way. I have a great life, I am one lucky bitch actually. If someone comes along that fits in, that enhances my life, GREAT! If not, I am totally cool with that also. No pain, no sacrifice. It just is what it is.

Actually, the more I look at it, I see it the opposite as you are describing. People that are so desperate to have/belong to someone that they will sacrifice being true to their own nature just so that they can be with someone. Regardless of whether or not it is the right person for them. Those same people will often jump in and out of relationships, one after another.

To me, sacrificing myself to be in a relationship, just to be in one, would be some damned miserable martyrdom.

I wanted to add......I really think there is a happy middle in there some where. I know I don't have a checklist, height/weight/hair/measurements/degree/etc.....I remain open to whomever. BUT, I will not begin something with someone that has glaringly obvious things that I know without a doubt will be a problem.


< Message edited by LaTigresse -- 6/25/2009 12:43:15 PM >

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 12:40:14 PM   
Missokyst


Posts: 6041
Joined: 9/9/2006
Status: offline 		Holey smokes!  Do you know how many times people say that in this forum alone?  Never settle. Hmmm.. my most memorable dominant was someone I would never have considered.  How does anyone know this person is not what they want until they begin to forge a relationship?  Heck, it took me 3 months of screwing to discover I was not in love with my ex husband, I was just .. controlled by him. 
I always wondered how people are so sure to think "this is what I want, nothing else will do".  I am not young anymore and I still don't know what I want.  I just know what does not work for me.
Of course I am a freak anyway.  I don't seek and generally these things just seem to find me.
Kyst
quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

When this is pointed out to him all he says is "I know what I want and I won't settle for anything less"

Good Excuse that way he can spend his entire life never really getting to know anyone (Thanks Good Will Hunting)


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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 12:50:31 PM   
ranja


Posts: 2111
Joined: 11/1/2007
Status: offline 		it is all Madonna's fault singing : don't go for second best...

and if a person understands their own short comings they are much more inclined to cut another some slack aswell...unfortunately a lot of people mistakenly think that they are perfect... poor buggars

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 12:50:48 PM   
blondagebabe


Posts: 18
Joined: 11/28/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: maia09

In my humble opinion, i think the biggest problem is that people are attempting to address a soul quest with their logical reasoning minds.


I agree !!

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