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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 8:39:13 PM

DesFIP

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I don't think this has anything to do with lifestyle or bdsm. It's something you see in vanilla relationships, in employer/employee relationships also. People who don't really want to be there and therefore sabotage the relationship from the get go.

And usually it's due to fear. Fear that this relationship will also end badly and you'll be hurt again, fear that you can't live up to your promises etc.

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Post #: 41

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 9:00:52 PM

porcelaine

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why the hell does it matter when its all said and done. that's someone's life and choice to make as the captain of their lives. if they elect to search for the needle in the haystick have at it. it isn't for me to say what they are doing is wrong, even if they're miserable doing so. at some point we reach a crossroads and realize we must alter our behavior if we desire a different outcome.

everyone has their quirks and that doesn't imply i have to put up with them. i like what i like. i make no apologies for it and nor should anyone else. we need a variety of types to make the world go round, and those that seem too selective are no more selective than the next. people have often made decisions along the lines of appearance, race, sexuality, education, religion, etc. so why should that change now? i don't think it has anything to do with compromise. perhaps some simply can't forsake things that others can. that doesn't make them less than at all. they're merely exercising a choice, just like those that chose to embrace/overlook those attributes has done.

i'm happily single and very content. so much so i refuse to have that messed up over bs. i love my life and adore myself even more. as such, i have every intention to do my darndest to find someone with a similar mindset. i would never assume that someone is afraid or dealing with another emotional issue simply because their method of searching for a companion differs from mine. we all must choose the flaw we can live it. furthermore, all these supposedly happy people are full of it as well. the internet is crowded with people that became involved in situations and they're looking outside of them for the very thing they didn't know they wanted or sacrificed going in.

the bottom line is people will do what they want to do. period. no one can predict the future. we are evolutionary creatures. what's good today may not be so kosher tomorrow. all you can do is make the most informed decision you can make at a given moment and see what happens. it is always a risk. some merely come out of it on top and others must settle or start again.

porcelaine

< Message edited by porcelaine -- 6/25/2009 9:04:30 PM >

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 9:14:57 PM

Fitznicely

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

So how do you feel about Lifestyle Martyrdom?

I am curious if you believe it serves a point or if it is a bullshit shield one stands behind too afraid to get hurt?

Steel

I've always kinda put it down to inexperience or badgewearing:

The "Won't accept anything less" crowd, to my mind, haven't thought through the realities of the situation. They have their fantasy and just haven't had the life experiences to be able to look at what they want from a practical POV...

The "My way or the highway" type, I definitely think are simply wearing BDSM as some kind of accessory to a life they aren't living, never will, and wouldn't know how to if they tried. I've not come across one of these people who weren't utter fantasists.

Reading your post, though, I can see how it could be used as a shield, too...say if someone's been hurt and put up the emotional barriers as a result. I'd be willing to bet most people at some time or another, not talking BDSM-wise, have done this once at least. The hope, of course, is that they find someone who is willing to take the time to help take the barriers down.

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:04:20 PM

ZenDragoness

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Lockit, what a great first sentence. I do not let fear be a way of protection. That sentence qualifies as a
Mantra. Because it is indeed a decision we can make. Fear has a great value, because it helps survive.

To understand when fear is a good feeling in the sense of a sounding alarm and when it is a bad feeling,
because is hinders us to experience something or even worser it has become circle or system is essential
to a balanced mind.

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Post #: 44

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:23:49 PM

ZenDragoness

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SoU,

was there really no element of the sarcasm in it? Did your thoughts really not touched the show effect of the matyrdom?

I ask because i thought you used the term for a reason and matyrdom is something public, if not public it will not be called matyrdom because nobody notice it.

ZD

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Post #: 45

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/25/2009 10:33:41 PM

ZenDragoness

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quote:

I'd rather simply look at my life unfolding, including the women I meet along the way, and take it as it comes.

Take it as it comes is not only a great tune by The Doors, it is exactly the way i live my life and i couple it with
Non, je ne regrette rien (no, i do not regret nothing). Images of ones self and of the people you meet or will meet are just that. Personality (self and others) is floating {if you do not believe that, look up modern research concerning the topic] therefore casting beliefs, attitudes, images of lovers to come in stone, the 3 rules moral code aside is wrong.

3 rules meaning my own minimal set of moral codes.

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Post #: 46

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 12:03:02 AM

DemonKia

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FR, after read thru

Lots of interesting thinking in this thread. The following is offered as supplementary thoughts in addition to the other ideas discussed here. Thinking about possible frames & contexts & some possible underlying motivations.

There's this 'pattern' I've seen many times. I'm gonna explain it in more specific terms, but it generalizes out. I've known a lot of women over the years who feel / believe / have been socialized / are surrounded by social support that reinforces the idea that they must be partnered to live fully satisfying lives. But. They are single, have been single for some time, & they're actually really happy single. They're in control, they're the center of their lives, they negotiate & compromise on nothing as they would have had to if they had partnership in the picture. But they, for whatever reason, cannot let go of the pursuit of partnership thing. So. They set unrealistic expectations for any potential partners, which has the effect of keeping them single while satisfying this internal & / or external expectation that they be looking for partnership.

The more generalizable form is that people can want things they don't feel entitled to want, or conversely they don't want what they think they should want, & they don't feel empowered to want, or not want, what they want, or don't want. So they set up situations that produce their desired results in a plausibly deniable way. (Typically the person they most need to convince is themselves, convincing others is secondary.)

Fear of success is another example. Lots of people sorta automatically pooh-pooh fear of success, but it's really common in my opinion. It seems obvious that success should only be a good thing, that people should only ever pursue success after success after success. But success is part of, & perpetuates, self-growth. It implies moving on to bigger & better problems to tackle, & that can be scary. The successes & failures one is familiar with can be comfortable, safe. One has some skills at dealing with the failures & successes one knows. The new & unfamiliar & unpredictable failures that can come with some new success may be far worse / painful / frightening than the old failures.

For me, the part that's annoying about any of this is independent of these patterns: I have a problem with complaint. While there's a place for a moderate amount of complaint, when complaining takes over communication or a person's life, when it's hard to have any discussion that is not overtaken with complaining, I tend to want to walk. Complaint as a lifestyle. Complaint as a communication style. I have a thing anymore about not feeding the complainers. I prefer to stick with more positive perspectives, to contribute to solutions more than problems. & it's not an either / or thing, I prefer some neutral middle ground where both praise & complaint are sparingly used.

*******

Personally, I can sum up what I'm looking for very simply: I want someone who wants me wholeheartedly, who wants all my baggage & quirks & gloriousness, & for whom I have the same feelings. I'm very flexible about the package in which that comes. I've had that kind of thing before & I'm quite content to take whatever time it takes to find it again. I'm a bi-switchy-sadomasochist, so I'm pretty wide-open, BDSM-wise, & I put a lot of myself out on my sleeve for the world to see. I get out & mingle.

I've settled a lot in the past & it has mostly contributed to me trusting my instincts. One instinct that I've come to trust is that I don't have to eat a whole pile of shit to recognize it as feces, nor do I have to fuck poo to know it's crap. All while recognizing that one person's doo-doo is another person's chocolate.

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Post #: 47

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 1:11:40 AM

ChasingOblivion

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Some people can be unreasonable in regard to their lifestyle, but I don't think that being particular necessarily makes one a "martyr."
I know exactly what I want, and exactly what I don't want. Some of the things I want can be explained easily, and others are hard for me to articulate because they have more to do with emotional/intangible aspects than anything easily quantified. I also know that I won't settle for less than what I want, and I realize that I may very well never find "the one" as a result. I know I'm picky, but I would rather be alone than be with someone that I ultimately get bored with and end up resenting. I tried settling, and all it got me was a year of hell and a nasty divorce.
I'm not a snob though. I don't hold myself up as being better than anyone else, and I'll chat and be friendly with just about anyone. However, I rarely get involved with anyone that doesn't meet my expectations. And if I do get involved I make it clear that I don't do sleepovers and I'm not interested in exclusivity until WAY down the road, if ever.
I have plenty of friends, and I'll fuck just about anyone who's interested (I like sex and there's no rule that I ever have to talk to them again), but in terms of a relationship, I am very very cautious about who I get involved with and I see nothing wrong with that.

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 48

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 1:19:06 AM

IronBear

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Great post Steel,

A good many Gorean folk and some Victorian folk too for that matter are Lifestyle Martyrs indeed and gladly so simply as you know many of us will not settle for second rate. We have standards which we expect and especially in what we seek in a slave. To make compromises which radically alter our dynamic is not an option.

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Post #: 49

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 1:58:09 AM

ZenDragoness

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But IronBear,

that is what differentiates you in my opinion from the fundamentalists, you respect other human beings and you are able to hear other opions and offer your ideas about them.

Plus, you use humour as a teaching tool, fundamentalists have no humour.

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Post #: 50

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 2:04:37 AM

EmelineRose

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I appreciate the point you are making, the dilemna between not wanting to "settle" but on the other hand, considering whether that which you are seeking is an unrealistic fantasy. I don't actually believe many of the submissives I know are unrealistic - in fact I think wayyyy too many "settle". I think male Dominants in general tend to be much less realistic than the submissives, for a number of reasons, but the male ego is definitely one of them (so many male Dominants seem to have the male ego on steroids).

I believe you can make all the "shopping lists" you like, but chemistry is a powerful and fickle bitch who nearly always has her way. And when she turns up - at the most unlikely times and places and in the most unlikely circumstances - hopefully you'll be glad that she did, unless of course she hands you a bouquet of barbed wire, everything "perfect" even if some of it is imperfect, and yet - unobtainable.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 51

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 3:42:31 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

Any thoughts on why some hold so strictly to the ideas rather than being open to new information?

Identity. I'd imagine that for many people it is comforting to imagine a constant inner self/soul/whatever you want to call it. To view yourself as a bundle of ideas and perceptions that are open to change begs all sorts of uncomfortable questions which ultimately lead to whether or not there is any purpose in life outside of the purpose that you define: this a destabilising for many though liberating for others.

And illusion to which humans are prone. Everything evolves: language/ideas/institutions etc - yet we need to tell ourselves that life is certain including what we are.

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Post #: 52

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 6:16:41 AM

eyesopened

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Someone had to point out to me that I was using the "never settle" as a shield, that I used the terms "high standards" and "I know what I want" and in the end it was all bullshit to one degree or another. I was able to elevate myself by having such high standards that it would guarantee that I would never have to be vulnerable. Really not unlike the germ-a-phobic people who finally get to the pont where they simply cannot leave their homes for fear of getting some disease... it's sick, it really is.

But the other side of the coin is to be so desperate to be with someone....ANYone, that they have one disasterous relationship after another. Just as sick, in my opinion.

Instead of trying to define and describe someone else, our "One" the person who may only exist in our imagination, I worked on defining and describing myself. Once I knew, really knew myself, accepted myself, liked myself, was I able to entertain others with a sense of adventure.

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Post #: 53

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 6:35:42 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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I think that the point here isn't really about -settling-. It's about taking chances in the -process-... about giving someone or something a shot, even if it doesn't seem ideal, with the understanding that it might -not- work... but then again, there might be something that works really well under that surface we've only had a chance to glance at.

Opportunities aren't like pieces of furniture. You can't pre-choose the color, and pre-plan the room. I may be wrong, but I read Steel's post more as a post about embracing opportunities, for better or worse, and at least exploring them a little before tossing them in the discard basket. I read it, not as a diatribe about settling for something unsuitable just to have -something-, but more as "gee, I didn't expect this to be the -right- thing, and almost didn't give it a chance... and guess what, it worked out beyond my wildest imagination.", with full understanding that sometimes opportunities pan out, and other times they belly-flop, painfully, with huge red marks to show for it for at least a little while afterwards... but that the fear of accidentally belly-flopping shouldn't keep us in the shallow end of the pool.

I don't 'settle'... but I do give a lot of opportunities fair chance to pass muster.

Dame Calla

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Post #: 54

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 7:00:08 AM

LATEXBABY64

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I think there is nothing wrong in setting standards. Aslong as those standards do not cause you or other harm. or take the positive things out of your life. Common sense plays a real important role in making good choices. Cause it based on life experinces.
our lifestyle is very much media driven. was not always when it was more underground things were quite a bit different. it is really apples to oranges

(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 55

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 8:03:42 AM

porcelaine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

I think that the point here isn't really about -settling-. It's about taking chances in the -process-... about giving someone or something a shot, even if it doesn't seem ideal, with the understanding that it might -not- work... but then again, there might be something that works really well under that surface we've only had a chance to glance at.

Opportunities aren't like pieces of furniture. You can't pre-choose the color, and pre-plan the room. I may be wrong, but I read Steel's post more as a post about embracing opportunities, for better or worse, and at least exploring them a little before tossing them in the discard basket. I read it, not as a diatribe about settling for something unsuitable just to have -something-, but more as "gee, I didn't expect this to be the -right- thing, and almost didn't give it a chance... and guess what, it worked out beyond my wildest imagination.", with full understanding that sometimes opportunities pan out, and other times they belly-flop, painfully, with huge red marks to show for it for at least a little while afterwards... but that the fear of accidentally belly-flopping shouldn't keep us in the shallow end of the pool.

I don't 'settle'... but I do give a lot of opportunities fair chance to pass muster.

Dame Calla

unfortunately that is what's missing in his post as well. the assumption being that these people haven't done the above can and often is incorrect. many times we learn what we want by directly experiencing the opposite. perhaps the behaviors one observes as unrealistic high standards are the results of taking chances and learning more about themselves and what works for them. all of this is mere speculation. you can apply all the theories in the world but you'll never be inside someone else's head. all you're doing is inserting your opinion on something that may be right or could be wrong.

instead of asking why this and why that, just accept that the decisions you made were right for you. perhaps the chance taken turned out to be exactly what you needed and when looking back you realized you'd have never done so all things being considered. unlike you i didn't see the post as such. i feel that is his reality and that's fine, but his reality should never become mine or anyone else's. our life experiences are diametrically different. i'm perfectly cool with someone having it their way. i really wish more people embraced that attitude.

porcelaine

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Post #: 56

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 8:29:22 AM

leadership527

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW
I don't 'settle'... but I do give a lot of opportunities fair chance to pass muster.

BINGO! Succinctly put.

In addition, I consider it a core stregth of my own that I am, myself, capable of a fair amount of flexibility. For me, to say that I can only envision a very limited set of ways in which I might be happy is maladaptive -- a weakness. Carol & I were just discussing this last night in bed and it was our thought that much of the success of our marriage rests on the fact that we are both highly flexible. That allows a lot of room for growth and change as we go through the next 40 years of our life together. I just cannot in my own head think of that as "settling" or "being weak".

_____________________________

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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Post #: 57

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 8:32:50 AM

subtee

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~FR

***READ CAREFULLY*** If you DON’T read my profile I can tell and I will block you so don’t waste my time. MY submission is a GIFT. I will decide IF OR WHEN I give it. I can be a lot to handle so I need a REAL dominate. Some of these people here need an education thinking a sub is a DOG. Don’t waste my time, I am NOT seeking married or relocating and NO COUPLES so DON’T WASTE MY TIME. I have a deep NEED to serve and obey although I can be very, very bratty ;) so I’ll NEED some spankings on my naughty bottom. I WILL NOT cyber so DON’T WASTE MY TIME. Journal: Sigh…Everyone on here is a fake…

hahahahahahha

< Message edited by subtee -- 6/26/2009 8:33:12 AM >

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RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 8:34:27 AM

Andalusite

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Steel, obviously, this isn't an issue for me - I had pretty definite standards in some areas, but was very flexible about labels, the shape of the relationship, etc. It surprised me a little that you brought this topic up, since I'd had the strong impression that you and andi had a very "non-negotiable, this is what we need in our poly partner" thing going on, to the point that if she didn't have enough chemistry with you on the first date, or wanted to let the conversation flow more naturally and take time to get to know you, you'd reject her out of hand.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 59

RE: Lifestyle Martyrs - 6/26/2009 9:05:30 AM

SteelofUtah

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ZenDragoness

SoU,

was there really no element of the sarcasm in it? Did your thoughts really not touched the show effect of the matyrdom?

I ask because i thought you used the term for a reason and matyrdom is something public, if not public it will not be called matyrdom because nobody notice it.

ZD

Actually ZD they did, there is an Aire of Scarcasm in just about everything that I post. In this particular situatiuon there is a Duality of meaning. There is those who hold so tightly to what they want there is no room for anyone to actually get in. And when this is mentioned to them the hold so strongly to the idea that they will not settle for less that what they end up doing is Settling for NOTHING.

There is Argument that when someone says they will not settle for less than what they desire that the end up settling for nothing at all which in my opinion is much less than what they could potentially find if they simply opened thier mind to stop trying to Micromanage their relationships and start taking things for what they are and learning how to live and function on what is THERE rather than focusing on what is NOT THERE.

The Dualality is also the Drama of the "I would rather be single, the rest of my life, then settle for someone that isn't what I deserve." To which I always call bullshit because if they would rather be single they would not be ADVERTISING ON A PROFILE SITE!!!!!!! If you are truely content being single then why have a profile that says "I am Looking for....." Truth is THEY AREN'T Content being Single because if you were you would not put your pinky toe out there. Sadly the Concrete thier egotistical ideal that they are so special by having no one to measure up to their in most cases unrealistic expectations.

I call Bullshit on most (NOT ALL but MOST) people who claim to have realistic expectations, they use the Attraction Gambit, of "well I want someone who is Kind, Caring, Dominant, experienced, and loving." (Which is about at very least 1/3 of the Dominant Population of CollarMe Dominants) "But I have to be attracted to them, there has to be that spark, that passion" (Which Basically all they really care about is the Looks but aren't willing to admit that and sound shallow)

Look I am Okay with wanting to be attracted to someone but when you have expectation on the Behavior BASED on the attraction then it is no wonder you are never finding what you are looking for because Fabio is a Picture on Romance Novels in real life he is far less charming.

The People who walk about how this and that must be this way and that way otherwise it isn't Weal Twue or Right well they are the Other kind of Martyrs and YES I was referencing them as well, the ones who have this Marquis De Sade Look of the world, the ones who think the wearing of black ACTUALLY MAKES YOU A BETTER DOMINANT. The ones who go about why they are so more in tune with the BDSM heartbeat because they understand this aspect or that aspect better or more than someone else because of some retarded reason that they for some reason can never fully articulate.

In My opinion they are often the projected IMAGE of what many people claim to be looking for but when the two meet the words FAKE and WANNABE are offten used which I don't get because they are exactly what the person SAYS they want someone who wants to control thier every move someone who can control them and dominate their mind and body and soul, and yet the ones who claim to want to do that aren't what those who claim they want that ultimatly are looking for so where is the rub? Who and what are they REALLY looking for, they must have some form of criteria... Right?

Usually No, *****This is JUST my opinion you do not have to agree with it but it doesn't change that it is my opinion***** Usually the person, from my experience, just wants to play in the fantasy. They usually are interested in actually doing this as much as they are TALKING about doing this and living in some fantasy of their own making. This goes for MEN AND WOMEN on this one I see it equally. That the IDEA of what being involved in a Lifestyle relationship are and what actually BEING in a Lifestyle relationship is just not acceptable for them, it doesn't FEEL the same as it did in thier head so there for is NOT what they DESERVE. I think This more than anything else is a large part of the Lifestyle Martyrdom.

To the Post that said this isn't a BDSM Issue you are right it really can be found in ALL relationship Archatypes however this is a BDSM Board and so I am discussing ONLY the BDSM aspect as it should pertain to everyone on this board.

As for those who disagree with my reasoning behind "Won't Settle For Less" aspect that is fine I am not saying that you should get into a relationship that is not going to make you happy, I would not wish that on you, The Point of this thread was to maybe open the eyes of some people of an UNHEALTHY Practice when it comes to the "Won't Settle for Less" practice. I would not settle for someone who could not meet my NEEDS but I define my needs as someone who Loves and Cares for me as a PERSON not as a Means to an End or a KINK. Anything beyond that is NICE but not something that I feel I would be setteling for less if it wasn't there.

In Closing I wish to state that I understand there are MANY Relationship Dynamics and I may not be touching on the kind of relationship you seek. Some People are looking for a Play Partner as an escape others are looking for a life long partner who meets you sexual needs and a different partner to meet your daily needs. Others may be looking for that person who they can Marry and never think about BDSM again. They are out there. If you do not fit in the General Mould that I have Presented here that is because not one answer fits all issues, not one opinion will be shared by everyone and mine might not be the most popular but I stand behind them as I forged them from personal experience.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
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Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to ZenDragoness)

Post #: 60

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