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Maxwell67 -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/28/2009 8:11:39 PM)
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ORIGINAL: Trevelyan
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ORIGINAL: YoungLust
What is the basis for gender-specific dominance?
I think that Norman's central thesis in his books is that nearly everyone in modern day North America is unhappy, unhealthy, and unfulfilled because they try to live their lives in accordance with (IAW) politically correct fictions about how human beings are, rather that IAW with the truth of our nature. Norman presents the Free Gorean, in several different Gorean cultures, as the epitome of humans who do live IAW the way people actually are.
One of the "truth's" that Gorean's embrace is what John Norman calls "the order of nature". Here is a summary of my understanding of what Norman means by "the order of nature":
- Humans are part of nature.
- They have been shaped by evolution, just like any other animal, with adaptations to help them better survive as a species.
- Some animal species have been shaped by evolution to be male dominant, like chimpanzees; and some to be female dominant, like bonobos.
- Humans are a male dominant species.
Woah, woha, there Tex..er.. Treveylan,
While the first three contentions you list are obvious, the forth is not necessarily so. What is the basis for this idea that Humanity is male dominated as the result of our species' genetic inheritance? Why limit our thinking simply because this is how it is depicted in our surviving recorded history? That is a small portion of Humanitys actual history, isn't it? What about before history was recorded? We can make a wide array of educated guesses as to that period, but that is all they will be. Guesses. And we have not taken our own evloution into account on many levels. One things we do know is that our species has spent much of recorded history taking practiced and calculated steps to keep women out of power. Our society has had to work at it to remain patriarchal.
In fact, when Darwin wrote his Origin if the Species, he ushered in a new age for humanity. An age where we were aware of the process that is evloution, and could begin to study it and observe the way it works.. We are aware that we evolve and we are intelligent enough to attempt to influence the process of our own evolution in many ways, from genetically to the evloution of our social structures. Whether it is wise of us at this point in our growth to attempt to do this, or not, you can be certain it is going to happen. On many levels it is happening already. This fact chages the playing field considerably.
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Therefore, when a human male acts dominantly towards a human female, he is not being "kinky", he is acting in accordance with how evolution has shaped his species. Similarly, when a human female behaves submissively towards a human male, she is acting in accordance with the "order of nature."
Norman does not say that women should submit to men. He does not say that men should not submit to women. He says that evolution has predisposed men towards dominance and women towards submission, and that most people will probably be happiest, healthiest and most fulfilled if they live "in the order of nature."
Based upon my previous statements, it should come as no surprise that I believe Norman is just plain wrong.
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There is another "truth" that Gorean's embrace that Norman calls "The Gorean Morality". I am not going to go into all of it here, although if you would like to read it, it is most succinctly discussed in chapter 1 of Marauders of Gor. One aspect of the Gorean Morality is the idea that if you want to do something and you are strong enough to do that thing, then you should. Therefore, if a woman wants to dominate a man, and she has the strength to do so, she should. If a man wants to submit to a woman, he should. There are several examples in the books where men do submit to women and other examples of women who do not submit to men.
We do not have to live in a world where might makes right anymore and where freedom is the privledge of the powerful. We have grown beyond that, and no amount of yearning for those good old days is going to bring them back. It is nearly universally acknowledged that one of the great goals which we as a speicies have set for ourselves is, in fact, the eradication of this very kind of "Morality."
People who deny this truth are going to find themselves tragically (and I mean that literally) disapointed. No matter how strong, capable or intelligent, a person is, they cannot halt the inevitable. From the best vantage point to this spectacle, their hubris will perhaps provide humanity with yet one more really good story, but even that will be only a rehash of the same old thing warmed over, from the worst POV, their worst dreams will be realized: they will be pittied.
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