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Maxwell67 -> RE: Now... is it just me...? (6/27/2009 4:48:54 PM)
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ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf
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ORIGINAL: Maxwell67
I think this is correct also. When one lives with a set of beliefs which cannot be defended, then the proper response to criticism is no response. You see this sort of thing regularly online when the beliefs that reinforce bigotry and extremism are attacked. Sure it sometimes brings the idiots and crazy's out of the woodwork, but the intelligentsia will not dignify your criticism with a serious response (though they might address something else that is being discussed within the same thread).
Actually this is utter bullshit. Walk up to anyone and ask them to explain their entire life philosophy, and I doubt you will get the entire thing. In the Gorean section we discuss topics all the time, using the series and the philosophers that Norman borrowed from. Now if you ask a specific question, you might get a more specific answer. An example would be "How do you reflect the Caste system in your everyday life?" The answer you may get is "Those of the castes of Gor took great pride in the things that they did, and they had a caste code which they followed. I have developed a Caste code for what I do, and I follow it with pride." From there you might ask a specific follow up question, and then you might get an answer.
When people use certain words that are obviously insulting, or take a condescending attitude, you are likely to get silence.
What is utter bullshit? Nothing in that statement is particularly off base. Perhaps you are making the mistake of thinking that I was attacking you or the way in which you practice your philosophy personally, but that is not at all the case. I admit to having grouped bigots and extremism together, and to be honest, I have never met an extremist Gorean. I have, however met a large number of Gorean bigots (many of them calling themselves Tuchuks and hanging out in the mountains of Western Pensylvannia, but the vast majority online where it was impossible to tell if they actually understood the Gorean ideals or were simply claiming to be Gorean as an excuse to justify thier bigotry). I doubt that any of the Gorean proponents are going to stand up and defend those parts of their philosophy which justify such bigotry. You are certainly welcome to prove me wrong on this count, if you like.
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(snip)... a Free Woman in her own home is also considered to have ultimate authority within those walls as well. Patriarchy is the method that is used in the Gor series, and is used in many cultures today. There is no inherent problem with that, except when the duty of care is not fulfilled (I suggest some reading on Patriacrhy to understand what I mean), or when the female part of us being humans is ignored. Nature/God/whatever created the two sexes for a reason, and nature has molded us in certain ways. You can substitute gender roles for the word sexes, as you like. Each portion, masculine/feminine, or dominant/submissive (adjectives and not nouns), function as a whole and not as separate. Just because someone is born male does not automatically mean they are in charge, and just because someone is female does not automatically disqualify them from being a leader.
This I must take issue with. I know a number of 'Free Women' and not a one of them I have met who is married.. not one.. is not submissive to her husband. Show me a so-called Free Woman who dances when the music makes her feel sexy or dresses in a way that expresses her sexuality in any overt way within a group of other Goreans and continues to remain free. I would be very interested in seeing that, because to my knowledge, it does not happen. In my mind, such heavy restrictions on a womans behavior do not translate to freedom.
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I welcome you to the Gorean section to seriously discuss anything you wish, as it is open to all members of this site. I do recommend that if you go there with a superior attitude, or condescending remarks that you will likely receive silence or ridicule. That is part of human nature. There have been many non-Goreans that have started topics, that continue to add to topics, and have been given much information on each of our personal views on subjects. Making statements such as you have, leads me to believe you have not even read any of the topics in the Gorean section.
I have read several threads in the Gorean section.. some of them quite interesting, intelligent and containing ideas that actually influenced my thinking, however, I have also read threads in which men have attempted to justify their so-called superiority by providing examples of behavior which they believe prove that all women desire to be enslaved. I have seen discussions on homosexuality and various kinks which are conducted with an air of superiority because no one living a in tune with 'natural law' would bother with such behavior. I find the Gorean folk, in general to be the most judgmental and least tolerant of all sub-groups involved in the M/s lifestyle.
As to getting any answers to my own questions, I am the owner of three former Gorean slaves (yes, this is online, for which expect I will get some derision which I will summarily dismiss), two of whom have been 'lifestylers' offline and both of those were Free Women for a time as well, and both have had over a decade of experience. If I have questions, which I often do, they answer them. All three like to tell me I am Gorean in all the ways that matter to them.
However, though I might have some traits in common with many Goreans, I am most certainly not Gorean. I have a thing for evolving and adapting to circumstance rather than fighting the inevitable fate I can see coming. I have progressive views and a need to remain involved with the world at large instead of withdrawing from it to live my life my way. I am not an island, I am a part of a much greater whole which I am proud to contribute to and I understand that compromises must be made to do so. And I do not believe that I am inherently superior to anyone either by virtue of gender or of my dominance. Those traits have never been shown to me by any Gorean man I have spent enough time with to really get to know. I am not saying such men are not out there, but I am saying I have met many men claiming to be Gorean, and I have yet to meet one who has not over time shown themselves to be incapable of tolerating the world beyond their narrow views.
So why should I want to participate in any discussion in the Gorean forums here or anywhere else? Sorry I am far too busy learning, growing and evolving to waste my time with such nonsense.
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