RE: are we all "equal"?

RE: are we all "equal"? (Full Version)

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LaTigresse -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 2:33:29 PM)
I just want to know if I am the only one that got all verklempt after reading Merc and beth's two posts?

ishyB -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 2:33:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl mist the answer is two fold one... who wants to own something "inferior" two... why should i think he would want to own someone inferior One... why would somebody want to take control of somebody just as capable, somebody equal to them, instead of valuing their input as an equal? Two... why would somebody would is just as capable would want to follow the lead of somebody equal? I personally sought somebody superior to me to beg the collar from, because I would NEVER settle in following the command of somebody that is 'only' my equal. If he's equal to me, I can just as well handle my affairs on my own.

janiebelle -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 2:38:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ishyB One... why would somebody want to take control of somebody just as capable, somebody equal to them, instead of valuing their input as an equal? Two... why would somebody would is just as capable would want to follow the lead of somebody equal? I personally sought somebody superior to me to beg the collar from, because I would NEVER settle in following the command of somebody that is 'only' my equal. If he's equal to me, I can just as well handle my affairs on my own. Outstanding, ishy. I am capable, smart, wise, and strong. And there is no way I could submit to a man who was only my equal in terms of those qualities. j

tazzygirl -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 2:38:57 PM)
in terms of the status of our relationship, yes, he is superior to me.. i have no qualms about that. i was explaining how he viewed things. and his views i do not argue with. so. if he doesnt wish to me to view myself as inferior, then do i disobey and view myself as inferior anyways?

tazzygirl -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 2:43:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ishyB quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl mist the answer is two fold one... who wants to own something "inferior" two... why should i think he would want to own someone inferior One... why would somebody want to take control of somebody just as capable, somebody equal to them, instead of valuing their input as an equal? Two... why would somebody would is just as capable would want to follow the lead of somebody equal? I personally sought somebody superior to me to beg the collar from, because I would NEVER settle in following the command of somebody that is 'only' my equal. If he's equal to me, I can just as well handle my affairs on my own. and i have repeatedly said i am NOT his equal. so i dont understand why this is part of the discussion.

tazzygirl -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 2:44:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I just want to know if I am the only one that got all verklempt after reading Merc and beth's two posts? quote: verklempt not at all, LaTigresse.

IrishMist -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 3:48:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl in terms of the status of our relationship, yes, he is superior to me.. i have no qualms about that. i was explaining how he viewed things. and his views i do not argue with. so. if he doesnt wish to me to view myself as inferior, then do i disobey and view myself as inferior anyways? Really? Hmm, I guess that I understood your words here quote: what i said to him was a tease.. a joke of sorts... one he typically finds funny. but, the minute i start to put myself down, in his eyes, its no longer funny. as he puts it.. i am slave... that doesnt make me less.. its makes me different. viva la diference to be how YOU would explain things. OH well.

tazzygirl -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 3:50:45 PM)
yes. oh well. his words. not mine.

IrishMist -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 3:52:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl yes. oh well. his words. not mine. Actually, I am unsure who's words they are...I don't even know if you know. ONe minute you say he get's upset when YOU start to put yourself down using words like inferior and such...and in the next sentence you say that those are HIS thoughts and words...make up your mind please...you are confuzzling those of us who are obvioulsly not on the same wavelength as you.

tazzygirl -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 3:58:10 PM)
as he puts it.. i am slave... that doesnt make me less.. its makes me different.

Drakontos -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 4:06:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl borrowed from another thread, this had me wondering last night. the following is an article found discussing equality both in the real sense of the word, and in the sense of it being used in a D/s, BDSM way. http://www.domsub.info/equality.shtml to those who serve, do you feel you are equal to your owner? why or why not? to those who control? do you feel you are equal to those who serve you? why or why not? and to both who do not see yourselves as equal to the other person in your relationsip... do you see that inequality as inferior? The debate of equality is one that means very little to me. I don't seek or strive for equality; personally or professionally. As someone already mentioned, I aim for balace, and a complimentary presence within my home.

Slrn733561 -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 4:59:08 PM)
Of course i'm not equal. i'm just an object owned by my Mistress

ElizabethAnne -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 5:08:13 PM)
Hello Folks, quote: There is a difference between submitting to the authority of another, and being unequal to them. In a Gorean context, many FW often choose to submit to the authority of their Free Companion, but they are still considered equals. ~sgs I really dislike the word "equal", I don't view myself as equal to my Free Companion. I have told my FC's slave many times, there is no equality in our home. I think someone mentioned here about a leader is not equal to his followers; in our relationship, my FC is the leader of our home. As a woman who has "chosen" to follow his direction, how could I be equal to him? And simply because I am a Gorean free woman, that does not mean I think ALL men are dominant, or ALL men are preordained to be the leader. It means MY FC has the qualities I looked for in a man, one I could respect, one I could trust, and one I could believe in, one I could follow, one I could submit to. I don't think in any relationship there can be true equal partners. One will naturally assume the leadership role, not based on gender, but based on ability. Which isn't saying I am not capable of leading, he is better at it. I wouldn't want to live in a world of "sames", I think this is where so many vanilla relationships get in trouble. Each person struggles for control, each person wants to be "equal". I believe relationships would be happier, more adjusted, more in tune with each other if they DID follow their own nature. To me it really is that simple. I wish you well, Elizabeth Anne

Missokyst -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 5:08:23 PM)
No, I cannot even see that as an implied statement. I know plenty of people to whom I feel I am not as good as, and a number of people I meet who are content to be/have less, in things, intelligence, skills, ect. And that is fine. As far as I know we were not all put on earth exactly the same, or I might be a white skinned blue eyed blond with size 38C's and what ever else the fates determined was standard. No one ever said if we are not the same we are not equal. I state again. I do not judge myself by anothers yardstick. I don't care what people think of me. And beyond the moment, I really do not dwell on anothers talent, skill.. or what they do within the context of their relationship. I am very confused by how you came to your conclusion that I believe we cannot be different. I gaurantee you I AM different. Unless there are clones running around we all are. Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: Missokyst I am equal in that I am the sum of my parts. Add up my life, skills, experience, and taste .. it pretty much adds up to who I am now. I don't judge myself by anothers yardstick. The fact that I can dominate life, or submit to a man does not make me more or less in my eyes. Kyst so there is only more, less, or equal, in your eyes. what happened to the idea of just being.. different? must we all be equal, the same?

tazzygirl -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 5:28:22 PM)
ummm... i am saying we are all different... no one is equal to another. that was the basis for this whole thread.

Alanshoreisgod -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 5:31:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ummm... i am saying we are all different... no one is equal to another. that was the basis for this whole thread. If we start with the premise of "nobody is equal" than the question of whether d/s relationships are inherently "unequal" is a useless exercise. In which case, the relevant question becomes "are d/s relationships any MORE unequal than others?"

mnottertail -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 5:47:55 PM)
The problem is that people confuse equality and equivalence, that is to say they confuse equal and equitable. These sorts of discussions have raged on the Gorean forums since their inception. OK, to oversimplify this... (given the initial circumstance that you are a female (born and raised) and I am a man) You suck one hundred percent of the cock, I will have my cock sucked one hundred percent of the time. Does that make it equal? Fill in the rest. (BTW you will have one hundred percent of the babies, I will have zero percent, that's sorta a hard limit, and I don't see a way out of that, but you can pencil out alternatives with me if you like, just kinda kick it around and think outside the box). EQUITY, KIDS; EQUITY!!! (And that ain't even a straightforward thing) Ron

dreamerdreaming -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 5:53:43 PM)
Its not that we're equal. Its that we have equal rights.

Alanshoreisgod -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 5:56:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mnottertail The problem is that people confuse equality and equivalence, that is to say they confuse equal and equitable. These sorts of discussions have raged on the Gorean forums since their inception. OK, to oversimplify this... (given the initial circumstance that you are a female (born and raised) and I am a man) You suck one hundred percent of the cock, I will have my cock sucked one hundred percent of the time. Does that make it equal? Fill in the rest. (BTW you will have one hundred percent of the babies, I will have zero percent, that's sorta a hard limit, and I don't see a way out of that, but you can pencil out alternatives with me if you like, just kinda kick it around and think outside the box). EQUITY, KIDS; EQUITY!!! (And that ain't even a straightforward thing) Ron even that doesn't really address the question. "Equity" in its most basic, refers to a sense of "fairness". A system that complies with our moral sense of right and wrong. As such I'd sincerely HOPE that all d/s relationships are "equitable", in that they are entered into with fully informed consent, free of coercion or threat. Which, as far as relationships go, is really all that "equitable" means. I think the question asks something a bit more philosophical. Are we, doms and subs, of equal value, of equal worth, as people, and as partners? And, frankly, any answer other than "yes, of course" is considerably disturbing.

Missokyst -> RE: are we all "equal"? (7/1/2009 6:03:48 PM)
LOL then you really have me confused. How does this pertain to ds, nilla, life? We are different. Wouldn't we all know that by definition and at the very least by a visual representation of people? I would be a blue eyed blond if I could choose. I seriously do not understand your question if you meant to correlate this to bdsm. Kyst quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl ummm... i am saying we are all different... no one is equal to another. that was the basis for this whole thread.

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