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RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/3/2009 6:46:16 PM

marie2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

We still seem to have plenty of disparity between the use of the word "respect" and where "courtesy" should be instead.

If you (general you) respect someone you actually don't know yet...well, that's rather foolish. Respect lies in an appreciation of the trait(s) a person exemplifies. It makes no logical sense to "respect" someone you do not know because it means you have no prerequisites for giving that respect (which makes rescinding it seem a bit silly).

Now, courtesy...makes a bit more sense to give to everyone as a general rule of thumb. Although, I normally gauge my courtesy relevant to the courtesy level of others. I don't have to know much more about a person that whether they smile or roll their eyes to a friendly hello to determine whether I'm adjusting the level of courtesy I offer them.

I hate to play the dictionary card, but if you look up the word respect, it can also apply to simply showing someone "consideration", which is basically the same thing as courtesy. I can respect someone's ability, I can respect someone's character, I can respect a person because of a, b and c, but I can also show someone "respect" by being courteous to them, or considerate of them. It's a slightly different context but I think it's a valid usage of the word.

From another angle: how do we explain the word "disrespect" or "disrespectful"? Is it possible to be disrespectful to a person we don't know?

< Message edited by marie2 -- 7/3/2009 6:47:14 PM >

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 41

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/3/2009 6:47:56 PM

stella41b

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

To respect someone from the start means I have to respect Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Idi Amin---sorry, respect IMHO is earned and is not a blanket statement--and it can be lost as well.

I stand by my own reasoning when it comes to respect, in that I respect myself and by extension other people, but I understand that respect is a feeling or something which can come with something else, such as common courtesy, tact, dignity, admiration, awe, even acknowledgement.

For all those people who claim that respect is something earned, I have to ask the question what did you do to earn your own self-respect?

I'm not sure whether earn is the right word, or even for that matter give, as for me the most appropriate word which comes to my mind when it comes to respect is 'grant'. This means that yes I will respect people who I come across for the first time or don't know, but as with all my feelings that respect is discretionary.

One of the things I'm most inclined to grant someone respect for is evidence of some sort of moral hierarchy or personal integrity, or for that matter humanity. I see very little of these qualities in the three examples above.

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RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/3/2009 7:46:08 PM

NihilusZero

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quote:

ORIGINAL: marie2

I hate to play the dictionary card, but if you look up the word respect, it can also apply to simply showing someone "consideration", which is basically the same thing as courtesy.

And "wench" can also apply to a "country girl", yet in most every dictionary referenced the prioritized definition of "respect" is that of esteem or high regard, which implies some degree of being impressed or awed or inspired (or at very least, the innuendo that the person being referenced is due one or more of those reactions: e.g. "Show some respect.").

Or we can just yield to them being perfect synonyms despite the fact that, if we go back the opening post, we realize the OP is specifically asking about the definition of respect the implies "esteem" and "regard", as evidenced by these:

quote:

People are more inclined to do a favor for someone they respect than for others for instance.

quote:

Now...at the side of 100 there is someone you respect utterly.

quote:

The respect given/shown to people when first met is more something of good manners than true respect in my opinion.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/3/2009 7:47:04 PM >

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Post #: 43

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/3/2009 8:07:44 PM

marie2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

And "wench" can also apply to a "country girl", yet in most every dictionary referenced the prioritized definition of "respect" is that of esteem or high regard, which implies some degree of being impressed or awed or inspired (or at very least, the innuendo that the person being referenced is due one or more of those reactions: e.g. "Show some respect.").

One of the definitions of respect is to "show consideration" regardless of where it falls in the list of various definitions.

quote:

Or we can just yield to them being perfect synonyms despite the fact that, if we go back the opening post, we realize the OP is specifically asking about the definition of respect the implies "esteem" and "regard"

Sometimes threads take little turns and tangents. And I was responding to your statement in which you said something to the effect that some people were confusing respect with courtesy. I was merely pointing out that courtesy and consideration are valid displays of "respect". But yes, I do agree that's not what the OP was refering to.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 44

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 4:55:26 AM

ranja

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I always wonder what people who are confident that respect needs to be earned do themselves to earn this respect....for it seems to me that if you show respect from the onset you are likely to be treat with respect in return... unless you deal with a badly brought up moron and in that case there is no loss...as most of them are beyond help anyway...
I can still be very curteous to people i do not respect at all

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Post #: 45

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 6:14:59 AM

DesFIP

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Respect is earned in increments. To start with, show up on time or call beforehand to explain why you will be late. Then use your manners to the fullest. So many so-called dominants think they don't have to stand to greet you, hold a door so it doesn't slam in your face, etc. By using your best manners, you will earn some points - perhaps even enough to warrant a second meeting. Along with that, basic hygiene is essential. Don't meet directly after your five mile run when you are dripping with perspiration unless she's a runner also and you've arranged to run together.

Basic stuff that is all too often ignored, ranja.

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RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 6:22:03 AM

Racquelle

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I respect all human beings, but not all do I hold in high esteem, and not all do I trust or admire.

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RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 9:20:22 AM

WoodenPaddle

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Ehm...those are very broad general definitions (btw, I do not regard wikipedia as the best source on many things, but that's another matter, in this case the definitions are fair enough).
But the question was, where exactly does one flow over into the other? Because I feel everyone will have his/her own definitions, so it's impossible to draw a very clear line between them.
Anyway, that's a more philosophical question.
*chuckles*...and since I'm going to be gone for 2 weeks on a trip (workrelated, not lazying about) I'll try and make some time to ponder that one.

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Post #: 48

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 9:26:45 AM

WoodenPaddle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Racquelle

I respect all human beings, but not all do I hold in high esteem, and not all do I trust or admire.

I show the basic respect to everyone. I guess this could be called common courtesy, which is what the post seems to get divided about at times.
But I agree with not holding just everyone in high esteem.

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Post #: 49

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 9:40:41 AM

BarnacleBill

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Courtesy of course is something learned and most are brought up with. Respect is never something you have but it is always a staus that you MUST earn.

I have never asked for respect for myself from others. Instead I choose to earn their respect thru my behavior towards them and how treat them every day as we meet whether in BDSM or in my real life!

Earn the respect as it is much better to have, than getting it due to your high postion or you inflated ego.

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Post #: 50

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 11:09:39 AM

WoodenPaddle

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I am in complete agreement

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Post #: 51

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 11:34:02 AM

jeninvegas

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Respect is definitely earned, not given or entitled to just anybody we encounter. Of course, I am respectful of people I encounter on a daily basis but if they are not respectful of me, then why should I still give them my respect?

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Post #: 52

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 1:30:37 PM

WoodenPaddle

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

I always wonder what people who are confident that respect needs to be earned do themselves to earn this respect....for it seems to me that if you show respect from the onset you are likely to be treat with respect in return... unless you deal with a badly brought up moron and in that case there is no loss...as most of them are beyond help anyway...
I can still be very curteous to people i do not respect at all

What one does to earn respect? That can be several things.
For me, one major thing is this:

Say what you do and do what you say. Meaning that I expect someone to keep his/her word for instance, and to show that words and actions are in accord.
Since I expect that from others I'll keep myself to that as well. So if I give my word to do something for instance, I do and am not going to weasel out, or to refer to some "small print" or start asking about where it was written down. A given word to me is just as hard. If I say I will, I do. Even if it turns out being harder/more timeconsuming/unforeseen consequenses for myself.

Not going behind one's back is another thing...*shrugs*...nowadays it seems to be normal. I rather say something right in the face. I'll try to be courteous, but I will. I also expect that of others. if they have criticism, come tell me in my face. I may not like it, but I WILL take it in consideration.

Owning up to making mistakes instead of trying to bury them or framing someone else...also something that seems to be becoming normal nowadays. Take responsibility for your own actions. Good AND bad.
Then try to correct the mistake or the ensuing damage. Way too many people seem to think that just saying sorry should be enough to bury the matter but will not work to undo the mistake or correct it.

I could go on with a huge list of things. I believe everyone has his/her own code of honor they will hold to. But sadly it also seems more and more people have a rather weak one, which seems to be controlled by only one urge: how do I personally get (financially) better out of things, no matter the consequenses to others, no matter whether one has to lie, cheat, embezzle, frame others or break laws.

*chuckles again*...ok...enough for now.

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Post #: 53

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 1:35:41 PM

MisterP61

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For Me, I do believe that to start you show respect when meeting new people. From there it is up to them and Me to either keep that respect (to Me that is the earning part) or to lose the respect.

Now in My line of work, which most already now is the Army, I will respect rank all day long every day, but I do not, and most times don't, have to respect the person wearing it.

Just My

worth (thats

already spent today.... dam this is getting expensive

)

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RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 1:39:51 PM

NorthernGent

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Respect is certainly earned and I suppose that is what marks the line between respect and courtesy: you can be courteous without respecting someone but where you respect someone courtesy will follow. For instance: I could have a boss at work who I think is a total pain in the arse and not agree with his/her style at all - I might not respect him/her but I must be courteous at all times due to his/her authority.

Respect to me speaks of really appreciating the qualities of a person and you can't do that without them proving that they have those qualities in place.

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RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 2:29:38 PM

marie2

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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Respect is certainly earned and I suppose that is what marks the line between respect and courtesy: you can be courteous without respecting someone but where you respect someone courtesy will follow. For instance: I could have a boss at work who I think is a total pain in the arse and not agree with his/her style at all - I might not respect him/her but I must be courteous at all times due to his/her authority.

Respect to me speaks of really appreciating the qualities of a person and you can't do that without them proving that they have those qualities in place.

I just wish someone in this camp would explain disrespect then. With this line of logic, do you have to know someone to disrespect them as well?

(in reply to NorthernGent)

Post #: 56

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/4/2009 8:31:18 PM

LaTigresse

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If disrespect is a lack thereof, then I would assume no.

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RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/5/2009 2:19:12 AM

Ialdabaoth

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I don't know that I'd consider respect "earned", given what I've seen of human nature. I think respect is "awarded". Some people, we naturally want to respect, based on their appearance, their body language, their social and resource displays, and so on. Other people, we refuse to even award the basic respect necessary for them to "earn" more respect from us. It's pretty arbitrary, and it basically comes down to: don't be poor, don't be ugly, don't be socially awkward.

If you've got those three things in the right balance (and you can trade points in one for the others, of course), then you're going to get a basic amount of respect - at least, people will respect you enough to consider your actions in a positive light most of the time, which will allow your actions to gain you more respect, as long as you don't fuck it up. Congratulations! You're a Worthwhile Person!

If you don't have those three things in the right balance, then people won't respect you to begin with, which means they'll look for interpretations of your actions that will lose you more respect, which means you'll never be respected. Might as well shoot yourself now, and save everyone else the trouble of bothering with your sorry ass.

(in reply to WoodenPaddle)

Post #: 58

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/5/2009 3:00:11 AM

ranja

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WoodenPaddle

quote:

ORIGINAL: ranja

I always wonder what people who are confident that respect needs to be earned do themselves to earn this respect....for it seems to me that if you show respect from the onset you are likely to be treat with respect in return... unless you deal with a badly brought up moron and in that case there is no loss...as most of them are beyond help anyway...
I can still be very curteous to people i do not respect at all

What one does to earn respect? That can be several things.
For me, one major thing is this:

Say what you do and do what you say. Meaning that I expect someone to keep his/her word for instance, and to show that words and actions are in accord.
Since I expect that from others I'll keep myself to that as well. So if I give my word to do something for instance, I do and am not going to weasel out, or to refer to some "small print" or start asking about where it was written down. A given word to me is just as hard. If I say I will, I do. Even if it turns out being harder/more timeconsuming/unforeseen consequenses for myself.

Not going behind one's back is another thing...*shrugs*...nowadays it seems to be normal. I rather say something right in the face. I'll try to be courteous, but I will. I also expect that of others. if they have criticism, come tell me in my face. I may not like it, but I WILL take it in consideration.

Owning up to making mistakes instead of trying to bury them or framing someone else...also something that seems to be becoming normal nowadays. Take responsibility for your own actions. Good AND bad.
Then try to correct the mistake or the ensuing damage. Way too many people seem to think that just saying sorry should be enough to bury the matter but will not work to undo the mistake or correct it.

I could go on with a huge list of things. I believe everyone has his/her own code of honor they will hold to. But sadly it also seems more and more people have a rather weak one, which seems to be controlled by only one urge: how do I personally get (financially) better out of things, no matter the consequenses to others, no matter whether one has to lie, cheat, embezzle, frame others or break laws.

*chuckles again*...ok...enough for now.

indeed Sir, you strike me as a polite curteous person...not somebody who would bellow : "I do not have to respect you because you have done nothing to earn my respect!' as many insecure people seem to feel the need todo... and it was these people i wonder about as it seems to me that for them it is difficult to earn any respect at all really...there is a saying in Holland which goes; zoals de waard is vertrouwd hij zijn klanten...translates into: like the landlord is himself; this is how he will trust his customers.

I do believe if one treats others with respect one will receive it in return from them that matter,
and if one does not show respect for others like wise they will get little if any of it in return they just look a fool and they are to be avoided.

(in reply to WoodenPaddle)

Post #: 59

RE: Respect...to earn or not, that is the question - 7/5/2009 3:48:01 AM

Focus50

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

To respect someone from the start means I have to respect Jim Jones, Charles Manson, Idi Amin---sorry, respect IMHO is earned and is not a blanket statement--and it can be lost as well.

It does???? Where'd ya get that (spectacularly dumb) premise from?

And how's that logic work with the next stranger you meet who doesn't have an established notoriety but history will later prove him to be the worst serial killer ever? You're gonna be openly disrespectful 'cause he hasn't earnt anything from you?

Do you mind if strangers are openly disrespectful and dismissive of you because you haven't earnt anything from them?

The unearned respect I (and many others) advocate giving a stranger extends as far as civility and courtesy etc as fellow individuals who simply don't know anything else about each other. You really have a problem with that or you truly are prickly and contrary to everyone you're meeting first time?

Focus.

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Post #: 60

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