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War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 6:10:11 AM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline 		One wonders if EVER the United Nations will take Israel to task over its APPALLING record on human rights and independently established GUILT over ... war crimes, quite simply.

I am not asking for a debate over IF ... that's WELL proven, nor am I asking for a debate regarding ANY OTHER NATION OR FORCES record in this area. Quite simply ... Israel.

Pirate

(this is NOT a politics, nor religion related topic)
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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 7:13:44 AM   
JonnieBoy


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Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline 		Uncanny ... ... a peaceful SILENCE here. Kinda curious . I'd apologise for being SO specific except I'm not sorry and the question should be asked. I'll get you's started then ...

I think the UN is GUILTY too by its omissions and neglect if it does not now act by the same measures it has taken historically elsewhere, a tribunal at the VERY VERY least.

Pirate.

(in reply to JonnieBoy)
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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 8:36:38 AM   
FullCircle


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Joined: 11/24/2005
Status: offline 		The UN is a mostly legislative body.

Does the CPS or parliament go out and charge people with crimes? Individual states can act together or alone if the UN passes sanctions or creates a mandate against Israel. It depends on the priorities of individual states.

Would a European state bring war crimes charges against a member of the Israeli cabinet, possibly. Would that Israeli member of cabinet travel to that European state to clear their name, unlikely.


< Message edited by FullCircle -- 7/5/2009 8:44:18 AM >

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 8:59:39 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

One wonders if EVER the United Nations will take Israel to task over its APPALLING record on human rights and independently established GUILT over ... war crimes, quite simply.



Of course not - the UN is an instrument of the Zionist plan to rule the world and such; I read it on Stormfront, so you know it has to be right.

More seriously, the UN is just a talking shop and an arena for diplomatic manoeuvres whose main purpose is not the advancement of high ideals between the nations of the world but the advancement of self interest by those nations capable of realising it. Were the UN anything more, then there would be no war, no famine and no pestilience by now, and fair world trade should have obtained for decades.

As long as it suits one of those few players able to realise self advancement, nothing is ever done on the problems of the world, and that includes Israel.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 9:07:51 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

Uncanny ... ... a peaceful SILENCE here. Kinda curious . I'd apologise for being SO specific except I'm not sorry and the question should be asked. I'll get you's started then ...

I think the UN is GUILTY too by its omissions and neglect if it does not now act by the same measures it has taken historically elsewhere, a tribunal at the VERY VERY least.

Pirate.


You and kaine were smacked in your last "Israel is evil" thread. You have your mind already made up about the "facts". You aren't trying to do anything other than stir up a shit-storm.

And you get irate because people don't want to dance to your song?

Firm

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 9:16:02 AM   
JonnieBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
You and kaine were smacked in your last "Israel is evil" thread.


YOU are incorrect.

Pirate

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 9:40:31 AM   
FirmhandKY


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY
You and kaine were smacked in your last "Israel is evil" thread.


YOU are incorrect.

Pirate


I sent you and Kaine Cmails.

I responded to Kaine's cmail to me, but he also has me blocked, so I doubt he will get to read my reply.

Firm

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 10:58:26 AM   
JonnieBoy


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From: Cymru
Status: offline 		I got your mail and have responded ... thankyou .

Shame we have no public forum for some of this

You stepped up on many occasion, which is a credit to you.

I was asking a "discussion" related question which has not to my knowledge been asked (at least recently) I don't expect to see too many "discussion" type responses ... which in my mind ... speaks for itself.

War crimes aren't particularly popular.

Pirate

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 12:19:43 PM   
philosophy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

One wonders if EVER the United Nations will take Israel to task over its APPALLING record on human rights and independently established GUILT over ... war crimes, quite simply.



...highly unlikely.

The reason for this is intensely political so this is probably the wrong forum area, but it is to do with a long standing problem with US (and other Nations, notably China and Russia) foreign policy and the nature of the Security Council.

Incidentally, Israel isn't the only nation to benefit from this dynamic.

A lot of countries put the, shall we say, moral character of a country below its status as an ally or strategic partner. Consequently they run cover for them at the Security Council with their veto power.

Thing is, the Security Council is really a mechanism for avoiding conflict, not starting them. This is one of the errors the last Bush administration made.....turning it into a mechanism for justifying a war rather than avoiding one.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 12:50:37 PM   
JonnieBoy


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From: Cymru
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quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
Incidentally, Israel isn't the only nation to benefit from this dynamic.


I know that. Hence the wording of the topic

Pirate

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 1:00:04 PM   
nelly33


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Status: offline 		Philosophy is right.  Without talking about justification, and just on politics, as long as Israel is an ally of the US, the rest of the security council sees that there is no point to try to sanction or take action against Israel.  Any such action they rightly see as ultimately futile because any action will be vetoed by the US.  Without trying to hijack the topic, the situation is quite similar to Darfur, in the way that the Security Council won't take action against Sudan because it is an ally to China, which will veto any action proposed by the council.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 1:01:25 PM   
Politesub53


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Status: offline 		The UN wont be able to do anything all the time the US veto any resolutions on Israel, while using the Negroponte doctrine. This tied any resolution on Israel to include condemnation of terrorists, or face a US veto. It prevents situations being viewed on their individual merits.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 1:07:17 PM   
JonnieBoy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33

Philosophy is right.  Without talking about justification, and just on politics, as long as Israel is an ally of the US, the rest of the security council sees that there is no point to try to sanction or take action against Israel.  Any such action they rightly see as ultimately futile because any action will be vetoed by the US.  Without trying to hijack the topic, the situation is quite similar to Darfur, in the way that the Security Council won't take action against Sudan because it is an ally to China, which will veto any action proposed by the council.


Politics wasn't on the intended menu ... you're right.But the example you give ... is.

Pirate

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 1:54:22 PM   
DomKen


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From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		A basic question, does anyone believe that any nation anywhere would have behaved any differently the Israel if faced with 50+ years of endless war and terrorism? The only modern example is the UK and we all know they went almost as far at far less provocation.

The whole UN condemnation route was used as a club to bash Israel for 2 decades and the fact remains Israel made peace with its neighbors and negotaited in good faith with people whose only goal is their death. Let's see the UN condemnation and sanctions for the nations who support the various terror groups that attack Israel. When Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Sudan are blockaded then I'll support sanctioning Israel.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 2:02:03 PM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline 		You base this on the measure of those other than the UN and Israel? (other nations or forces)

Pirate

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 2:06:45 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
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From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		You know, I was going to post a longreply, but it isn't worth it. Have it your way, Israel is evil.


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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 2:10:30 PM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline 		No ... have it YOUR way ... you WANT to think that I think Israel is evil.

I asked a different question than that which you respond to I suspect.

Pirate

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 2:17:26 PM   
OrionTheWolf


Posts: 7803
Joined: 10/11/2006
Status: offline 		You really should make your questions more clear, and use a question mark to isolate the question.

The answer would be no.


quote:

ORIGINAL: JonnieBoy

One wonders if EVER the United Nations will take Israel to task over its APPALLING record on human rights and independently established GUILT over ... war crimes, quite simply.




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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 3:38:45 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

A basic question, does anyone believe that any nation anywhere would have behaved any differently the Israel if faced with 50+ years of endless war and terrorism? The only modern example is the UK and we all know they went almost as far at far less provocation.



Almost as far ? Care to show something to back your claim ?  I cant recall fighter jets destroying half of Belfast.

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RE: War Crimes, Israel and the UN - 7/5/2009 3:52:49 PM   
DomKen


Posts: 19457
Joined: 7/4/2004
From: Chicago, IL
Status: offline 		Torture of prisoners, restriction of civil rights, a blind eye to the local loyalists violence, use of the military for control of the civilian population, forcing the population into less desirable areas.

All apply to both Israel and the UK's response to terrorism. Like I said almost as far. Of course the UK wasn't faced with genocidal opponents who wouldn't accept self governance and peace.

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