RE: Boring bdsm (Full Version)

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agirl -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 4:54:57 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx



You are a darling treasure. Not just because you say nice things about me but because what you say is true... BUT..almost impossible to let anyone do for me. I would go so far as to say I loathe it. It feels so wrong.  Do TO me, do WITH me but not do for me.



It is nice to have *do to me, do with me AND do FOR me*.....If you find it hard to allow anyone to do FOR you, they may well get the impression that YOU, doing all the doing, is what you actually want ...........when in reality, you DO appear to want the kind of understanding and level of interest that comes when people ARE allowed to *do FOR you*.

agirl



BossyShoeBitch -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 5:39:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

It has moved to the issue of what happens when so-called assertive submissives feel the need and do indeed give feedback.


BSB is certainly someone most would call "assertive" and SHE AND I have rarely if ever gotten defensive, I am sure neither she nor I am alone in that.



But being defensive is most peoples default setting. You and I made our own conscious decisions to not be defensive. I haven't found many other people that have made that choice, or even realize that it's a choice that can enhance a relationship a hundredfold.



LaTigresse -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 7:05:24 AM)

That is the key. To make a concious effort to NOT be defensive. Not many people are self aware enough to do that. It is a discussion to have before issues come up, not when.

I think we all to often, make assumptions. We assume that the other person is going to be, think, feel, understand, in the same way we do. Then, when they don't, we get upset and begin a discussion (usually at the worst possible time due to emotion) and of course the other person gets defensive. Rightly so, we've just accused them, in whatever manner, of not being what we expected them to be. Of not being good enough.

I think the key is to create ground rules for working through/discussing, problems. As an example,I try very hard to not use "you" when bringing up a sensitive subject. Things like, "you don't" etc, have a tendency to immediately put people on the defensive. Much easier to say something like "when xxx happened it made me feel" or whatever. Another thing I will not allow, the finger in my face. It is the same as "you". Instantly makes me furious and want to destroy the finger pointer.

It's a very simple adjustment in wording but makes a huge difference in how the conversation will proceed.

I also will not have sensitive discussions with someone under the influence or late in the day when I am really tired.



Prinsexx -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 8:13:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

.

I think the key is to create ground rules for working through/discussing, problems. As an example,I try very hard to not use "you" when bringing up a sensitive subject. Things like, "you don't" etc, have a tendency to immediately put people on the defensive. Much easier to say something like "when xxx happened it made me feel" or whatever. Another thing I will not allow, the finger in my face. It is the same as "you". Instantly makes me furious and want to destroy the finger pointer.
.

Which is why, when I post, I usually try to always post from the 'I' position. There's a huge difference between 'You are boring me' and 'I am bored by this'. I am aware of the huge difference between 'that'was boring'  and I am bored or that was great and I feel great. Or that was fucking horrible and I feel fucking horrible. 'I' statements are the start for taking responsibility. And even as a professional I am person-centred and use theoretical approaches with a great deal of circumspection. But so often these 'I' statements are perceived by the other as accusative.
And I have been accused here, on these boards, by those who have not met me, or mailed or interacted in anyway that has enabled them to know me, of being self-centred, opinionated, staring at my navel and so on.
'I' prefer 'I' statements. I am surer of my experience than of anything else.




LaTigresse -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 8:47:35 AM)

It can be a catch 22. 



SimplyMichael -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 9:46:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

And I have been accused here, on these boards, by those who have not met me, or mailed or
quote:

interacted in anyway that has enabled them to know me
, of being self-centred, opinionated, staring at my navel and so on.



Prinsexx, we respond because we care.  I see your pain, your frustration, your hurt and even when I laugh at it, I am ONLY doing so hoping to force you to look at yourself and see what some of us see.

quote:

interacted in anyway that has enabled them to know me


You have posted nearly 4,000 times on this board, trust me, we know a bit about you both through direct details and through what you project in your posts.  I am sure you have an opinion of "who" I am based on what I have posted and even if you think you don't, it is there for all to see.  It is true that we could learn MORE but to say we can't "know you" is silly.

I think you are an interesting, passionate, intelligent woman, or I wouldn't respond.




agirl -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 10:24:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

You have posted nearly 4,000 times on this board, trust me, we know a bit about you both through direct details and through what you project in your posts.  I am sure you have an opinion of "who" I am based on what I have posted and even if you think you don't, it is there for all to see.  It is true that we could learn MORE but to say we can't "know you" is silly.

I think you are an interesting, passionate, intelligent woman, or I wouldn't respond.



I agree with Michael here. When you've been *reading* someone for a long time, and, as he put it  through *direct details*....or through what's being *projected*....you DO form an opinion and get a *feel* for someone. It's not the WHOLE someone at all.......but there is a certain *knowing* that begins to emerge.

It can be hard to see how other people *see* us and not always a nice revelation. I found that out the hard way.

agirl





LaTigresse -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 10:56:26 AM)

I know this is off topic, and please forgive me, but do you (general) ever wonder what the people that are sitting out there in computer land imagine you to be?

I just now thought of that...... hmmmmmmmmm. Now I am wondering.



Lordi71 -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 12:15:09 PM)

The Pomp and ceremony...the how high can you piss....the I have a longer cane than you crowd. Competitivness ruins the scene.



SimplyMichael -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 1:18:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I know this is off topic, and please forgive me, but do you (general) ever wonder what the people that are sitting out there in computer land imagine you to be?

I just now thought of that...... hmmmmmmmmm. Now I am wondering.



Having met a lot of people who first knew me online or even just casually in the scene.  Arrogant, self centered ass is what many think of me.  When they meet me they realize that I am in fact an arrogant self centered ass with a secret soft sensitive side.

If it wouldn't descend into flaming, it would be fun to start a thread where people posted a description of someone and people had to guess who it was.





Prinsexx -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 1:27:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I know this is off topic, and pleSome dear friends whom I have met and made and would not be withoutase forgive me, but do you (general) ever wonder what the people that are sitting out there in computer land imagine you to be?

I just now thought of that...... hmmmmmmmmm. Now I am wondering.


There's a normal distribution curve ranging from the downright dumb 'I wanna own u' mailers to near novel length mails, those who subscribe to my journal, want to add me to their network of friends and admirers for what that is worth. Some dear friends whom I have met and made strong bonds with and two Masters. On the whole though, perceptive and intriguing mail which seems different to the posts on the forum. Intersting, not at all boring.

None of us will ever know wha others imagine us to be...something somewhat different to what we actually are...I would imagine. ...and so it goes...



LaTigresse -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 1:32:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I know this is off topic, and please forgive me, but do you (general) ever wonder what the people that are sitting out there in computer land imagine you to be?

I just now thought of that...... hmmmmmmmmm. Now I am wondering.



Having met a lot of people who first knew me online or even just casually in the scene.  Arrogant, self centered ass is what many think of me.  When they meet me they realize that I am in fact an arrogant self centered ass with a secret soft sensitive side.

If it wouldn't descend into flaming, it would be fun to start a thread where people posted a description of someone and people had to guess who it was.



I must confess, I was thinking along the same lines. But you are correct, it would either turn into a flame war, or different version of another disgusting, who likes who, type thread.



agirl -> RE: Boring bdsm (7/9/2009 3:10:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I know this is off topic, and please forgive me, but do you (general) ever wonder what the people that are sitting out there in computer land imagine you to be?

I just now thought of that...... hmmmmmmmmm. Now I am wondering.



Having met a lot of people who first knew me online or even just casually in the scene.  Arrogant, self centered ass is what many think of me.  When they meet me they realize that I am in fact an arrogant self centered ass with a secret soft sensitive side.

If it wouldn't descend into flaming, it would be fun to start a thread where people posted a description of someone and people had to guess who it was.



I must confess, I was thinking along the same lines. But you are correct, it would either turn into a flame war, or different version of another disgusting, who likes who, type thread.



Yes.... I do occasionally wonder. But the  *I love you* aspect would put me right off.......lol

agirl





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