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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 5:17:59 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

quote:

Yeah? Were you in that home every night? No? Then you have no clue what did or did not occur.


I know what people told me about Roger Clinton Sr. A lot of the old timers around here said they never saw him drink excessively
Were they in that home every night? No?

You have no idea what you are talking about.


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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 5:22:17 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I think I know more about it than you do, and I think the people that lived here (small town, where everyone knows everyone) know WAY more than you do. Nice that you avoid the substantiated lies that he told about his grandparents' grocery store and his "poor, underprivilged" upbringing. Even if his stepdad did get drunk one night and smack his mom, he certainly didn't man up and challenge him to throw down. His claim on that bullshit is just beyond funny.



< Message edited by slaveboyforyou -- 7/8/2009 5:34:58 AM >

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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 5:32:06 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

I think I know more about it than you do, and I think the people that lived here (small town, where everyone knows everyone) know WAY more than you do.
Sorry, but you do not.

No one knows what goes on in anothers home unless you are there.


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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 5:37:35 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Whatever. You don't know what you're talking about, just like you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to our criminal justice system which is the topic of this thread. Your claims that our nation's inmates are in "country clubs" is the typical remark of an uniformed, unconcerned person. I minored in criminal justice in college; I have 20 credit hours in the subject. I was required to tour 4 correctional facilities. I toured 2 others for the hell of it. They aren't country clubs, and they aren't keeping violent criminals or even petty criminals cozy in them. In fact they left a guy laying in his own shit here a few weeks ago. He almost died from septicimia. While he was laying in there dying, a prison nurse was giving out lap dances to guards. Nice, huh? But the fuckers deserve being treated like livestock, right? The visitor they shot in the back of the head recently here deserved that because he tried to run from a visitation checkpoint when they discovered he had a warrant out too, right? He was unarmed and everything, but he dared to run from them. You don't have a clue on this subject.

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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 5:39:26 AM   
sirsholly


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Status: offline 		Stop trying to change the subject. You were NOT in that home. You do not know what happened.

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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 5:45:12 AM   
slaveboyforyou


Posts: 3607
Joined: 1/6/2005
From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		I know he's a compulsive liar; I know I have more information that you do on the subject. I didn't change the subject. I made an offhand remark about another poster pointing to Bill Clinton as a example of po' white trash that made it out of the holler. I then ended this off-topic argument session with you, and I got back to the topic of the thread.

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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 5:49:18 AM   
sirsholly


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Status: offline 		Your argument does not hold water. For the last time...no one knows what occurs in the home of another unless you are there. You were not there. You do not know.




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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 5:52:35 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		Yep, that's true. So when the cops show up at some domestic violence call, they shouldn't arrest the abuser because they weren't there?

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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 5:54:25 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

Your argument does not hold water. For the last time...no one knows what occurs in the home of another unless you are there. You were not there. You do not know.
quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveboyforyou

Yep, that's true.


finally!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 5:55:53 AM   
slaveboyforyou


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From: Arkansas, U.S.A.
Status: offline 		As per your usual MO, you avoided the rest of the statement which was heavily laden with sarcasm.

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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 8:14:35 AM   
subfever


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

I think I know more about it than you do, and I think the people that lived here (small town, where everyone knows everyone) know WAY more than you do.
Sorry, but you do not.

No one knows what goes on in anothers home unless you are there.



And by the same reasoning, wouldn't this explain why some people become criminals and others do not?

< Message edited by subfever -- 7/8/2009 8:15:22 AM >

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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 8:32:25 AM   
beargonewild


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

To say that some can do it so why can't everybody, well I just don't agree with that.
Some can...some cannot. A poor background is no excuse for criminal acts. My point is accepting personal responsibility for ones actions, rather than having their behavior blamed on brain chemistry, vitamin deficiency, etc.


Everyone who came from a disadvantaged childhood, or lack of good nutrition growing up or experienced mild to severe abuse are able to walk away from that and become productive citizens and not criminals. The end result is the individual still has that fee will and the choice to decide to be pro-active about their situation and not wallow in playing the victim for the rest of their lives. Reading study after study after study about a criminal mind and poor education/poor nutrition etc only explain a possible connection which still, leaves a large margin of error. To solely blame extraneous influences and not consider the poor choices a criminal makes is simply a bloody cop out on personal responsibility. Not all of us who got a raw deal in childhood grew into a criminal and not all who had a perfect upbringing became a criminal.


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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 8:47:08 AM   
sirsholly


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From: Quietville
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quote:

ORIGINAL: subfever

quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

quote:

I think I know more about it than you do, and I think the people that lived here (small town, where everyone knows everyone) know WAY more than you do.
Sorry, but you do not.

No one knows what goes on in anothers home unless you are there.



And by the same reasoning, wouldn't this explain why some people become criminals and others do not?
read what Bear wrote. He said it better than i ever did.


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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 8:49:14 AM   
kdsub


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Status: offline 		I agree there is a link...that is not my contention. I am saying that it is obvious as a group they will have fewer children to pass genes and less of an impact on societies direction. At least compared to a normal non-criminal group.

Their life expectancy is shorter.

If you are in prison you may be allowed occasional visits by a spouse but it is still hard to match procreation of the non-criminal group.

This means there will always be a majority of non-criminals and the genes that are defective in criminals will not become the prevalent genes through natural selection.

Butch


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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 9:20:32 AM   
nelly33


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

Ahhh so much incorrectness. Where do I start?

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33
first off, I wasn't defending drug dealing, but anybody who thinks that it isn't accepted as just another job in many inner cities is naive. 


Yeah, it's 'accepted as just another job' by other DRUG DEALERS.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33
And to say selling crack is easier than working at McDonalds is also false. 


Really? Why don't you talk to a drug dealer, then talk to a minimum wage worker at McDonald's and see who has the bigger 'paycheck' and who works longer hours.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33
I know mother's of small children that think snitching is wrong, it isn't just people involved in illegal activities that believe it. 


Wanna know why the mother of small children thinks it's wrong? Because snitches get KILLED where she lives.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33
As for the dog-fighting thing and Michael Vick example, again, you can look at culture.  Cock-fighting here in the US is illegal, and people can make the same argument that they did against Vick, that it is immoral, and wrong, etc ad nauseum.  However, in many parts of South America, it is legal and a part of the culture.  Are the people that practice cock-fighting down there wrong?  You and I may think so, but to ask people down there, they would argue that you just are closed minded against their culture.


I'm sorry....I'm from NORTH AMERICA......you know...the United States. Last time I check, so was Michael Vick. So South American customs and laws do not matter here. If Vick wanted to be part of that "culture" he should move there.




Loki, I'm sorry, but you are wrong about these things.  You are presuming to know a lot about how people in run down inner cities think.  I'll address this point by point.  In some places I have lived, drug dealing IS seen as just another job, by MANY people.  This is a fact, and not an opinion.  Obviously not the case everywhere in the world, but in inner city D.C., it is.
Secondly, you are under the false impression that drug dealers are wealthy.  There are lookouts, people who sit on the stash, runners, etc.  Often times these people are paid less than minimum wage for a days work.  Obviously you don't know much about the inner workings of drug-dealing... not to say that's a bad thing lol.
As for snitching, you assume that you know why the mother's have their way of thinking?  You can't assume why they think the way they do.  Please don't assume you know why snitching is looked down upon.  For many, it's because helping the police is seen as helping an oppressing force, among many other reasons.
My point about dog fighting is that there is more than one culture in the United States.  Dog-fighting is part of that culture.  The customs aren't just in S. America, they are just legal there.

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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 9:29:36 AM   
sirsholly


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quote:

In some places I have lived, drug dealing IS seen as just another job, by MANY people. This is a fact, and not an opinion.If it is a fact, cite your source. If you cannot, it is your opinion. Obviously not the case everywhere in the world, but in inner city D.C., it is.
Secondly, you are under the false impression that drug dealers are wealthy. There are lookouts, people who sit on the stash, runners, etc. Often times these people are paid less than minimum wage for a days work. Obviously you don't know much about the inner workings of drug-dealing... not to say that's a bad thing lol. If it pays so poorly, and comes with the threat of jail time, i doubt they would be doing it.
As for snitching, you assume that you know why the mother's have their way of thinking? You can't assume why they think the way they do. Please don't assume you know why snitching is looked down upon. For many, it's because helping the police is seen as helping an oppressing force, among many other reasons.
My point about dog fighting is that there is more than one culture in the United States. Dog-fighting is part of that culture. Cite your source, please.



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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 10:21:15 AM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33
Loki, I'm sorry, but you are wrong about these things. 


Say that as much as you like, it doesn't make it so.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33
In some places I have lived, drug dealing IS seen as just another job, by MANY people. 


And I'll say again, those people who only see it that way are the type of people that good, honest, hard-working people don't want to be anywhere near. Those people *ARE* the low-lifes. And umm....inner-city D.C.? I've lived 'near' there as well. Seen it on a number of occasions. There's a reason why D.C. was called the "District of Crime." 'Nuff said.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33
Secondly, you are under the false impression that drug dealers are wealthy.  There are lookouts, people who sit on the stash, runners, etc.  Often times these people are paid less than minimum wage for a days work. 


If a drug dealer makes enough to pay lookouts, runners, etc, they are not doing badly. Plain and simple. Besides, now you're inserting things into the conversation. I said drug dealers. I also never said they were "wealthy" I said they make a better living than working at McDonald's. If they did not, they wouldn't engage in such activities. When I see drug raids on the news, and the drug dealer's car is much nicer than mine (minus the ridiculous-looking LARGE rims of course) then it tells me they aren't exactly making peanuts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33
As for snitching, you assume that you know why the mother's have their way of thinking?  You can't assume why they think the way they do.  Please don't assume you know why snitching is looked down upon.  For many, it's because helping the police is seen as helping an oppressing force, among many other reasons.


And who do they oppress? Criminals. Drug dealers, theives, rapists, murders, GANG MEMBERS. Yeah...it's REAL easy to see the cops as an oppressing force when you're in the group of people they are trying to protect good people from.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33
My point about dog fighting is that there is more than one culture in the United States.  Dog-fighting is part of that culture.  The customs aren't just in S. America, they are just legal there.


If that's your point about dog fighting, then your point doesn't even belong in this discussion. Michael Vick is from the U.S. Not one of those countries. Not one of those cultures. He's an AMERICAN and should follow AMERICAN laws. Plain and simple.




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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 12:40:35 PM   
nelly33


Posts: 96
Joined: 8/17/2008
Status: offline 		SirsHolly, my source is my own eyes and ears.  Where I live, many people do see drug dealing as just another job.  I see and hear this myself in my neighborhood.  I am not dealing in the abstract here.  In Buffalo, where I live, some people do fight dogs, as part of the culture they were raised in.  Not all American culture is the same.  And some of the people that deal with drugs where I live do it even though the pay is poor... there are many reasons for this, and one of my many sources is Drugs, Crime, and Justice, by Larry Gaines and Peter Kraska.  Read the book if you want the reasons why many of the poor deal with low paying illegal jobs.  The reasons are not so simple I can type them out in a post.
Loki, you talk about the drug dealers busted on TV with nice cars... that's because the poor ones don't make the news.  The media doesn't run boring stories, like "Local petty drug dealer busted with 5 vials of crack."  As for the police only oppressing "bad" people... you can't really believe that.

edit: I enjoy hearing the different points of views guys, and I'm glad this hasn't boiled down to name calling like in some other threads.


< Message edited by nelly33 -- 7/8/2009 12:41:56 PM >

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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 12:51:58 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33
In Buffalo, where I live, some people do fight dogs, as part of the culture they were raised in.  Not all American culture is the same. 


Ahh but in *all* America, dog fighting is a crime, as is drug dealing. SO it doesn't matter what culture they think they come from or whether they see it as a way of life. It's CRIME pure and simple.

quote:

ORIGINAL: nelly33
And some of the people that deal with drugs where I live do it even though the pay is poor...


If that's true, then they don't have the smarts God gave the common dog. And they deserve whatever they get as a result of their ways. That's why I always smile when I see news articles about someone either being thrown in jail or sent to the morgue because of their criminal ways. They chose the life, they get to deal with the consequences of that choice. For that, I have zero sympathy.


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RE: s'not my fault m'lud - its me upbringing - 7/8/2009 1:05:17 PM   
DJCatoose


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< Message edited by DJCatoose -- 7/8/2009 1:07:41 PM >

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