RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy'

RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (Full Version)

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Mercnbeth -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 1:14:41 PM)
quote: Just out of curiousity...do you leave a a football game or change the channel after the first quarter? Loki, I leave and flip channels for sure. If it's the Superbowl - I'll head out to the jacuzzi and watch any big comback via TIVO; life is too short to waste time watching people do the same thing over and over yet expecting different results. I am a realist rather than a fanatic. Mike, I expected truth. I expected a plan. I expected disclosure. I expected that the representation of bi-partisan inclusion, wasn't lip service; and 'Pork' would be off the menu. I expected a difference (OKAY - I expected "CHANGE!".) I expected that pragmatic decisions based upon observed results would be implemented. I expected a commitment to promises like - "We should get our of Iraq today!" remember that quote? I expected that "talking to all of our adversaries" didn't mean we'd be apologizing to them in terms that make it sound like we were sorry for building two big buildings at the south end of Manhattan; which represented "evil capitalism". Now - I feel my President feels the same way as the people who brought those towers down; or at least sees thier action as logical result of their perspective. Along those same lines, I expected a man representing pride in the USA, not be apologetic for a past. A past being taken out of context. I expected focus. I expected a reigning in of the acceptance of partisan politics from the President. I expected ANY and ALL failed policies from prior administrations being cut, not enhanced; as was the case with "Bush Stimulus II" being implemented by this Administration. None of these would fall under the category of "miracle". In fact, most would have been relatively easy and opportunistic accomplishments considering the mood of the country at the time of this Administration coming to power. My question is - didn't you have smilier expectations? This Administration came to power representing that they had spent every second from election to inaugrial, getting to know and understand exactly what the problems were that they'd have to address from day 1. Now - they are compared to ship that can't maneuver. Worse - they represent we are back to square one by saying their plans and all their work is based upon information that was "misread"? That generates confidence from you? Even a aircraft carrier can change course quickly under the right 'Captain', and even if the uninitiated don't notice the course correction, they do notice a trend regarding the water coming from under the ship. The only trend I observe is similar to the trends observed with another ship that was ineffectual at changing their heading - the Titanic. Feel free to point to a trend contrary to that position.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 1:15:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u No Sanity,first you prove your fair and balanced here....you point out how you have applied the same critical eye to the party on the right.....and than I will engage you in this discussion....Otherwise,this and all other threads started by you are nothing more than the ramblings and whining of one who's party has fell out of favor. And before you try to turn this around...I have voted Republican and I have voted Democrat....I once even threw my vote away by Voting for a loon(Perot). I think it would have been a waste of time to add to the plethora of anti-bush threads while he was in office. Firm

rulemylife -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 1:19:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: CreativeDominant And what do you call it when a man taxes the corporations that make a profit and provide jobs so that he can prop up those companies who cannot make a profit without the playing field not only made level but slanted in their favor? Uh, you mean corporate taxes just began when Obama took office? And I seem to recall Bush propping up a few companies. In fact, quite a few more than Obama has.

slvemike4u -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 1:24:14 PM)
And again another rambling disjointed laundry list...this from the man who a paragraph prior pointed out "life was too short to waste" I'm going to pick one statement and only one statement to reply to.....the one I find the most offensive,...... "I expected that "talking to all of our adversaries" didn't mean we'd be apologizing to them in terms that make it sound like we were sorry for building two big buildings at the south end of Manhattan; which represented "evil capitalism". Now - I feel my President feels the same way as the people who brought those towers down; or at least sees thier action as logical result of their perspective. Along those same lines, I expected a man representing pride in the USA, not be apologetic for a past. A past being taken out of context" You are going to need to back this one up.....this is the most blatent misrepresentation of our Presidents words,opinions and actions I have seen here in a good long time(this in a venue that regularly features Sanity is saying something)Coaching it in the "I feel" may give you some cover from the actual facts...but this is simply a rediculous statement.Please Merc stick to rewarding failure posts....comparing your President "feelings" to those of the lunatics who hijacked those planes....is beyond bad taste

slvemike4u -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 1:27:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u No Sanity,first you prove your fair and balanced here....you point out how you have applied the same critical eye to the party on the right.....and than I will engage you in this discussion....Otherwise,this and all other threads started by you are nothing more than the ramblings and whining of one who's party has fell out of favor. And before you try to turn this around...I have voted Republican and I have voted Democrat....I once even threw my vote away by Voting for a loon(Perot). I think it would have been a waste of time to add to the plethora of anti-bush threads while he was in office. Firm Oh please Firm....stop trying to prop up Sanity's irrationallity....my question was pretty specific...if Sanity is opposed to deficit spending...I would like to hear about all of his objections when President Bush was sitting in the Oval Office.....or does he only object to how the money is being spent?Social programs not being as sexy as regime change and such.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 1:45:13 PM)
quote: Yet I got absolutely no response from you on your own thread. So, it's really getting hard to take you seriously anymore. Sorry for throwing too much information out there for you, and with apologies to those feeling it necessary to take up space by applauding you; I thought you understood the thread to be about trends. I tried to provide a list to make it easy to point out a positive one. You didn't. You mentioned tax can provide examples for the positive impact of the tax credits regarding unemployment, or any of the other specifics given. Why didn't the VP identify this, to you, positive action as being outside the economy he represents as being "misread" by the Administration? Did the VP misread the positive impact or do you? I enjoyed the company of a few religious Obamites at my home over the weekend. They couldn't come up with any positive trends either - don't feel so bad. They, you, and all fellow 'time sensitive' Administration apologists, should consider; the fact that there isn't any positive trend is a trend.

FirmhandKY -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 1:47:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u No Sanity,first you prove your fair and balanced here....you point out how you have applied the same critical eye to the party on the right.....and than I will engage you in this discussion....Otherwise,this and all other threads started by you are nothing more than the ramblings and whining of one who's party has fell out of favor. And before you try to turn this around...I have voted Republican and I have voted Democrat....I once even threw my vote away by Voting for a loon(Perot). I think it would have been a waste of time to add to the plethora of anti-bush threads while he was in office. Firm Oh please Firm....stop trying to prop up Sanity's irrationallity....my question was pretty specific...if Sanity is opposed to deficit spending...I would like to hear about all of his objections when President Bush was sitting in the Oval Office.....or does he only object to how the money is being spent?Social programs not being as sexy as regime change and such. Sorry Mike, but your post that I commented on said nothing specifically about deficit spending. Firm

rulemylife -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 1:47:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth I expected that "talking to all of our adversaries" didn't mean we'd be apologizing to them in terms that make it sound like we were sorry for building two big buildings at the south end of Manhattan; which represented "evil capitalism". Now - I feel my President feels the same way as the people who brought those towers down; or at least sees thier action as logical result of their perspective. Along those same lines, I expected a man representing pride in the USA, not be apologetic for a past. A past being taken out of context. Yet, in other posts you have criticized his buildup of troops in Afghanistan to go after "the people who brought those towers down". I mean really, criticize the guy all you want, but at least be consistent and logical about it. Don't bitch just for the sake of bitching because you don't like him.

Loki45 -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 1:55:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Even a aircraft carrier can change course quickly under the right 'Captain', and even if the uninitiated don't notice the course correction, they do notice a trend regarding the water coming from under the ship. Absolutely correct.....almost. A captain gives the order, the order goes to the helm, the helmsman turns the wheel, the wheel sends signals to the rudder to move, the rudder shifts and the ship slowly begins to move. You're expecting our 'captain' to spin this fucker 180 degrees with telepathy alone. He's given his 'order' the order has reached the helmsman. I'm guessing the order is somewhere between the rudder's movement and the water you seek so desperately to see. As I have said before, this economy took 8 YEARS. That's 96 MONTHS. Obama has had 6 MONTHS....not even 10% of the time it took to fuck things up. I (and others) have already pointed out things pointing toward the change you're refusing to see. We can't "make" you see it. You don't see it because you choose not to. That's not our concern. I don't need to do your research for you anymore. Nor does anyone else. You're going to continue to ignore it anyway. So what's the point?

rulemylife -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 1:55:45 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth I thought you understood the thread to be about trends. I tried to provide a list to make it easy to point out a positive one. You didn't. You mentioned tax can provide examples for the positive impact of the tax credits regarding unemployment, or any of the other specifics given. Yes, and I also asked you how a trend can be established in five months when the tax credit policies were based on a two-year plan, especially when many of the leading economic indicators lag by at least two months.

Loki45 -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 1:56:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Yet, in other posts you have criticized his buildup of troops in Afghanistan to go after "the people who brought those towers down". I mean really, criticize the guy all you want, but at least be consistent and logical about it. Don't bitch just for the sake of bitching because you don't like him. How DARE you make logical SENSE??? [sm=jaw.gif]

Loki45 -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 1:57:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife Yes, and I also asked you how a trend can be established in five months when the tax credit policies were based on a two-year plan, especially when many of the leading economic indicators lag by at least two months. You know it just occured to me.....it's a damned good thing Merc isn't in charge of a radio station. He'd have no on-air talent. He'd hire someone, wait two months and demand ratings (forgetting totally that ratings books are produced quarterly) and then threaten his hosts with termination because he doesn't see the ratings he wanted to see.

Loki45 -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 2:01:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth quote: Yet I got absolutely no response from you on your own thread. So, it's really getting hard to take you seriously anymore. Sorry for throwing too much information out there for you, and with apologies to those feeling it necessary to take up space by applauding you; Right here we have a CLEAR example of your refusing to read people's posts. Let's break it down, shall we? quote: Yet I got absolutely no response from you on your own thread. So, it's really getting hard to take you seriously anymore. Right here is where the person indicated they answered your question very thoroughly in another thread and you remained SILENT. I guess it was too much to take to have someone actually defeat your unanswerable question (so you thought). And so you post this: quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth Sorry for throwing too much information out there for you, and with apologies to those feeling it necessary to take up space by applauding you; This has NOTHING to do with his statement about answering your question in the other thread. You threw NO information at him. You demanded someone show you trends. When trends were shown, you went silent and moved on to another thread with your "list" and demanding more "trends" be shown to you. We have shown you. More than one person here has shown something significant that you have ignored. Mike's right....there's no sense wasting anymore time trying to show someone the answer they demand, yet refuse to acknowledge.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: Bidden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 2:08:42 PM)
~FR~ Okay, moving past all of the sniping, and bickering, I am going to try and address the OP. What concerns me is that certain predictions about the economy were used when divising the stimulus package. If those predictions and assessments were incorrect, how will that effect the money being spent? How will that effect the impact of that money being spent? Will this make some want to spend even more money to try and stop what appears to me to be a market and economy correction? I am in agreement with Tim/MusicMystery. The fiscal problems have actually been going on for a great long while, and I mean before Bush II. The behavior of Americans have contributed to this as well. Both things will have to change, to be able to actually approach in any manner that will have a long lasting effect.

Mercnbeth -> RE: Bidden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 2:12:55 PM)
quote: I don't need to do your research for you anymore. Nor does anyone else. You're going to continue to ignore it anyway. So what's the point? What? Research on aircraft carriers? What do you see that the VP does not see? quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth I thought you understood the thread to be about trends. I tried to provide a list to make it easy to point out a positive one. You didn't. You mentioned tax can provide examples for the positive impact of the tax credits regarding unemployment, or any of the other specifics given. Yes, and I also asked you how a trend can be established in five months when the tax credit policies were based on a two-year plan, especially when many of the leading economic indicators lag by at least two months. Then we are in agreement and should apologize to me for being unresponsive. Why, if the question was posed in the present, should there be response to a post pointing to five months from now, or a hope that the positive trend is just lagging by two months. Why respond to agreement that today - NOTHING is being stimulated or is trending positive? When two months go by and the lag catches up - we can revisit. How long is long enough? The Administration is projecting out pretty far for self fulfilling prophecy. It seems they are going to require a LONG time. So long in fact, I think they are representing themselves as a hypochondriac who has "I told you I was sick!" on their tombstone. Regarding you not having any answer to what can be pointed to today as being stimulated in the other thread - why respond when I was pleased to observe your agreement concerning the present? To bring OP back into this - the quote that began this thread came from the Administration, not someone giving an opinion. You disagree with Bidden? Fine - don't argue with me, I happen to agree with him. The Administration misread, is misreading, and has no remedial summer reading course which can save them.

Loki45 -> RE: Bidden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 2:20:06 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth You disagree with Bidden? Fine - don't argue with me, I happen to agree with him. The Administration misread, is misreading, and has no remedial summer reading course which can save them. See? There again you 'claim' you agree with Biden, but that's not what he said. I saw the quote that is referenced in the OP. He said they misread how bad things really were. He made NO comment on a summer reading course, that's your own partisan hatred showing through. And once again for the record, you've been shown the trends tending toward positive. You just refuse to acknowledge them. We can't help that. It's as if you are an aging parent dealing with altzheimer's. Just because you don't recognize your loved ones when they visit doesn't mean they aren't your loved ones. The problem isn't with them, it's with you.

Loki45 -> RE: Bidden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 2:25:16 PM)
For one last 'college try' a simple google search can show you all you need to know. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=recession+end+2009&aq=1&oq=recession+end&aqi=g10&fp=dMlfxuRvj0I If the recession ends this year....that's a pretty big fucking trend toward the positive, isn't it?

Sanity -> RE: Biden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 2:25:39 PM)
Hi Firm. I didn't want to give in to the, uhm, poster who tries to hijack every thread he sees me posting and derail the thread by making it about me - but for the sake of clarity, I'm going to prove how wrong mike is with his erroneous assertions: Sanity vs. Bush's Liberal spending habits Further, I feel no need to defend myself for starting a thread about one of the most important issues of the day (the handling of the economy), while the majority of the Left apparently believes that keeping up with the day-to-day life of Sarah Palin is the most pressing concern before us as a nation. I offer no apologies at all. [:D] quote: ORIGINAL: FirmhandKY quote: ORIGINAL: slvemike4u No Sanity,first you prove your fair and balanced here....you point out how you have applied the same critical eye to the party on the right.....and than I will engage you in this discussion....Otherwise,this and all other threads started by you are nothing more than the ramblings and whining of one who's party has fell out of favor. And before you try to turn this around...I have voted Republican and I have voted Democrat....I once even threw my vote away by Voting for a loon(Perot). I think it would have been a waste of time to add to the plethora of anti-bush threads while he was in office. Firm

Mercnbeth -> RE: Bidden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 2:27:36 PM)
quote: He said they misread how bad things really were. I am in 100%, uncompromising, total agreement with the VP! You interpret that as showing "partisan hatred"? Just because you aren't interested in why, or what was so wrong with their after election interpretation; doesn't mean I should follow your example of burying my head in the sand, and saying "oh - good!" Granted he didn't suggest they are going back for some summer reading, but why don't you think they should? Nobody accused him of "misreading" he volunteered that representation of the Administration. I don't hate reality, I simply observe it and comment. I must also have the VP problem. What exactly was shown to me trending toward positive today? What did me, and the VP, not consider?

Mercnbeth -> RE: Bidden: We 'Misread the Economy' (7/6/2009 2:29:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 For one last 'college try' a simple google search can show you all you need to know. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&q=recession+end+2009&aq=1&oq=recession+end&aqi=g10&fp=dMlfxuRvj0I If the recession ends this year....that's a pretty big fucking trend toward the positive, isn't it? An appropriate rebuttal: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=recession+will+NOT+end+2009&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=&aqi=

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