RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate first?

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RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 6:32:04 PM

SthrnCom4t

Posts: 343
Joined: 9/9/2007
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And so, Peon, did you have a follow-up conversation with her after your face to face?

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Sthrn
Honorably served by OttersSwim

'The sign of a developed mind is one in which two opposing ideas can coexist' - Oscar Wilde.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 21

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 6:39:36 PM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
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Let's see, I am going to use all my switchie goodness and approach from both sides here.

I am more of a guns a blazin kind of girl when it comes to meeting with a potential submissive. If I have determined to spend my valuable time with you, then you have already produced evidence enough in our encounters for me want to be bothered. I won't have a boy kneeling in a parking lot, but I will already be assessing the moment he approaches because I tell him how I want him attired and groomed. I will have also put something in place like not speaking until I grant permission. I am watching it all, every detail. I get icked out by unsolicited submissive gestures. Manners is one thing, but overt displays don't do a thing for me. I am very finicky I guess, but I have yet to have someone float my boat in person. I guess being a fit in this way is very difficult.

Now as a submissive, once again, if I am taking the time to meet with the dominant, then I have already felt the tremors somewhere along the way. It is pretty obvious from first sight that I am interested in that way. I am shy, quiet, and blushing, full of nerves and looking as if I am about to bolt the other direction. If it all goes unnoticed or is not responded to in some way, I will get very comfy and it will go fully vanilla as far as interaction. To me, it means that the earlier sensations were just smoke and mirrors. It is why I don't like to be forever online. I want to get face to face and see and feel and experience this dominance. When seated, I will wait to be shown where the person wants me to sit. I will remain standing until I am offered to sit. On and on it goes. Then, at some point, comes a direct request or command. Usually, something like, "Listen" and I am perked and about half trembly. Once I saw that the person's drink was empty and requested another while he was away from the table. He was pleasantly surprised when the full glass was waiting for him (the waitress only filled glasses if asked).

I know. This made everything clear as mud. Sorry about that!

lovingpet

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 22

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 6:39:39 PM

PeonForHer

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Joined: 9/27/2008
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She wrote saying how 'pleasant' the evening had been, I wrote back agreeing, and that was it.

A week before we met, she deleted her entire profile text, replacing it only with the words 'Just not looking'.

All a bit of mystery, really. I don't think she knew what she was looking for. Well, whatever it was, it wasn't me.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to SthrnCom4t)

Post #: 23

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 6:41:43 PM

TheLadyIsADomme

Posts: 89
Joined: 4/10/2009
From: Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: DemonKia

I also am a big fan of that 'start smaller than small, go lighter than light & slower than slow' kinda thing, too . . . . .

I am the same way - kind of a "leave them wanting more" situation. If it is working out, there will be plenty of time for more.
Warmly,
LD

(in reply to DemonKia)

Post #: 24

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 6:52:52 PM

Blaakmaan

Posts: 374
Joined: 5/21/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

I just thought of something else here. In person and online can be different. In person I can see those who wish to submit to me without a doubt. I can see their intent much clearer. I recently changed my profile to not seeking anything online as I do far better in person but that caused a lot of problems and I changed my profile back and then deal with the rest. In other words I cover my ass with my profile as it is! Not seeking didn't say enough!

People are mentioning the lowering of eyes when speaking and that sort of thing. Even with someone I know things could never work out in being that relationship I seek, doesn't mean I don't enjoy knowing that they find me someone they would love to submit to and I have my moments of where I enjoy a bit of play or dominant type talk with them. I guess you could call it d/s flirting! lol When I see this taking place I do communicate with them and set the stage a bit so I guess one could say I am being dominant in doing so or taking charge of the situation, but I see that as different than someone I would consider in a relationship.

I agree that an in-person meeting is different.

I would think things would be clearer by then.

By the time you meet a Dom/Master in person, I would think both of you would be somewhat sure of who's who and what's what.

In that situation, I would expect the Dom/Master to take the initiative and "seize the moment," as it were, if he or she wanted to move things forward and establish a D/s relationship.

(in reply to Lockit)

Post #: 25

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 7:03:25 PM

atypicalsub

Posts: 284
Joined: 4/11/2008
From: an atypical sub
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

Assume that Domme and sub are attracted to each other and have been talking for some while, in a broadly vanilla, friendly, sort of way. Which side is to make the first move, thereafter?

My Mistress and I spent a couple of months chatting and getting to know each other. The whole point of taking the time to do so was to determine if we were compatible. It was a negotiation process which led to a mutal consent for entering a D/s relationship.

_____________________________

Polyamorous, solitary eclectic pagan, pansexual slut, and personal pet of MistressYes

"Do not do anything you are ashamed of, and don't be ashamed of anything you do"
(although I'm sure my bio-family wishes I did less and was ashamed of more)

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 26

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 7:04:48 PM

RedMagic1

Posts: 6470
Joined: 5/10/2007
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I think there's a big difference between being "dominant" (or "naturally dominant") and knowing how to direct the motion of others in a diplomatic way. The first is a psychological bent; the second is a leadership skill.

Do you know if she ever told a man ever in her life, "Sit down," or, "Sit down please," in a way that controlled the situation? She may want to be able to do that -- even be hungry for that -- and yet not know how to pull it off, so be nervous about trying.

Subs sometimes have to teach doms how to tie a knot. Yeah, it's a bit of a moodbreaker, but just because you like the person, and he/she wants to dom you, does not mean the skills to do so are magically there. Leadership skills are like topping skills; you only gain them through practice. Maybe she doesn't have much practice yet. She's young, and a former sub.

Could you talk to her again, or meet her again? I certainly didn't see any red flags in what you posted. She might just be new.

_____________________________

Not with envy, not with a twisted heart, shall you feel superior, or go about boasting. Rather in goodness by action make true your song and your word. Thus you shall be highly regarded, and able to live in peace with all others.
- 15th century Aztec

(in reply to Blaakmaan)

Post #: 27

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 7:07:17 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
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I will decide when, where and how when it comes to my dominanting someone. There is no time frame. There isn't a meeting one, two or twenty that determines anything. It is when I feel it best to go there. It naturally flows from most of my experiences and no one is left questioning anything, but I don't go there until I want to. Because someone hints, shows signs or does anything doesn't mean I am going to respond or be motivated by it. I will communicate where I am at all times as I expect them to do as well.

Take the guess work out of it all and just say what you think or feel.

I can see submissive traits... I might even like the person and them showing who they are and presenting as submissive, but that does not mean I will be dominant in response to them. I will however discuss it all.

_____________________________

No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to Blaakmaan)

Post #: 28

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 7:12:58 PM

Venatrix

Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

I must be the anti-domme . . .

I have to disagree, V. From what I know of you, you domme in your own style. You say, 'I'm so low-protocol, I'm practically no-protocol" . . . yet, what you probably have is a protocol - just one of a less common kind. The thing is, will the sub be aware of your protocol? It's less likely, the more unusual that protocol is.

That may well be true, P., and if it is, I'd be most flattered. A lot of the subs who have approached me are of the "let me abase myself at your feet" variety, and that really doesn't do much for me. Someone who only responds to "conventional" dominance is most likely going to be a "conventional" sub. I'm looking for someone who isn't conventional. But he does need to take direction. If I make it clear that I want something, there'd better be a *really* good reason if he doesn't comply. I don't think the requests that I make are particularly difficult or outlandish.

By the way, did you wear clothes at your meeting with that domina? If you wore what you have on in your photo, she might merely have been startled rather than unenthusiastic.

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 29

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 7:13:10 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

What a wonderful topic, Peon!

I am a natural born Dominant, and that is not something that I care to turn on/off like a light switch,
unless I have to. {work/family/life situations}.

I actually like the phrase I may be a Dominant/submissive/switch, but I am not YOUR Dominant/submissive/switch.
If someone approaches me {especially on here, in a D/s setting, club, etc.} and they claim to be a submissive/slave, and I tell them I am a Dominant woman, I would hope they can deal with me acting like a Dominant woman, even though I am not his/her Dominant woman!
I am not going to start acting one way, and than change into a Dominant woman at some later date!

I don't engage in casual BDSM relationships, so I prefer to begin as a "getting to know you--> if things work out--> possible friendship-->friendship to D/s relationship ".
Many take getting to know someone WELL lightly, but I don't.

For me, getting to know a potential submissive, is similar to doing a dance.

Since I am the Dominant party {hopefully}, I will lead and I expect the submissive to follow.
The initial "getting to know you to see if we should go further and meet" stage is very important to ME.
I will ask a lot of questions, I am willing to answer a lot of questions, and I will make requests of you and your time.

I actually address this topic in my online journal, I can not wrap my head around a submissive telling me when the D/s relationship starts.

The D/s relationship will officially begin at the time we BOTH agree it will begin.

If you can't begin to start submitting to my requests {which are not a lot}, than we will not continue the dance.
Maybe I need to start asking submissive's that I am interested in, if they would like to dance?

< Message edited by MzMia -- 7/8/2009 7:31:30 PM >

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 30

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 7:26:39 PM

Lockit

Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline

Okay... now I am getting do-me email from this thread. Testing, testing! lol I promise to do him, but not how he thinks! I've been inspired and am not just responding damn it! hehe

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No matter how old a woman gets, some men will think she was born yesterday! ROFL... I love this place!

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 31

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 7:32:50 PM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

I don't like submissive posturing. I can deal with it, tolerate it, or tell a man to simply stop doing it if I find it to be distracting or annoying. I prefer to be seductive. I like to be the one pursuing. I like to peel a man like an onion, and take his surrender in tasty bite-sized morsels. The big challenge I have always had with submissive men is that they throw themselves at femdoms and leave very little room for seduction. I spent a large chunk of my 'formative years' fine-tuning my process of seduction - from kisses that turn from affectionate to cruel, to pleasant conversations that turn into surreal interrogations. All the traditional "courting" rituals kind of turned on their head. And I like that.

That said, I don't like it when a man doesn't know how to be classy or polite. Some people call that "submissive" - I think it's just manners. I want to be treated with respect and enjoy a very pleasant, equal-type exchange until I start to tighten my hold on the leash. That could be five minutes after sitting down or five "dates" in. It just depends on how high my "femdom engine" is idling that day, how attracted I am to him, and in what way I am attracted to him.

If I am getting mixed signals from him and can't get a sense on his willingness to obey/surrender based on his body language and posturing (oh, how I love to decipher non verbal clues like trembling!), I will just flat out ask, "Are you ok with this? Are you ready? Do you want me to tell you what I want to do to you?" - but mostly, I just go with instinct.

A lot of BDSM rituals seem clinical to me. I realize that a lot of my S&M style is wrapped up into my sexuality and sensuality and I can't remove them and turn it into a negotiation followed by "play," but I still have to keep my romance out of it. When I was single and dating it was a much easier dance - seduction, lust, and feeding a predatory "urge."

Akasha

< Message edited by AAkasha -- 7/8/2009 7:34:52 PM >

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 32

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 7:38:10 PM

MzMia

Posts: 5333
Joined: 7/30/2004
Status: offline

I wanted to add, if you don't submit...I can not dominate you.
If I attempt to dominate you and you are not willing to submit, we have a problem.

Which came first?

The chicken or the egg??

lol

_____________________________

Namaste'
To Each His/Her Own
"DENIAL ain't just a river in Egypt." Mark Twain

What's your favorite fetish?
"My partner's whisper"--bloomswell

(in reply to AAkasha)

Post #: 33

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 7:39:38 PM

NYLass

Posts: 409
Joined: 12/30/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Which came first?

The chicken or the egg??

lol

Neither. The rooster did, then he rolled over & went to sleep.

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(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 34

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 7:41:25 PM

ThatDamnedPanda

Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia
Which came first?

The chicken or the egg??

That's a trick question, right? I always thought the dominant gets to come first.

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Panda, panda, burning bright
In the forest of the night
What immortal hand or eye
Made you all black and white and roly-poly like that?

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 35

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/8/2009 7:46:15 PM

TheLadyIsADomme

Posts: 89
Joined: 4/10/2009
From: Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

Which came first?

The chicken or the egg??

lol

The chicken and the egg are laying in bed, the chicken is smoking a cigarette. The egg, with a pissed off look on it's face says, "Well, I guess we answered *that* question!".
LOL - Sorry, couldn't help myself.
Warmly,
LD

(in reply to MzMia)

Post #: 36

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/9/2009 3:40:00 AM

Lashra

Posts: 4900
Joined: 2/9/2006
Status: offline

I'm Dominant so most people pickup on that as soon as they meet me. Not that I try to dominate everyone no, it is just certain things that I do that seems to give subtle cues. In my relationships I am not shy to pursue a male. With my current sub for instance, our very first time being intimate he fully expected me to be submissive (aren't all women? LOL no wayy) I instructed him to take off his shirt, he looked at me and blinked..I said again Take OFF your shirt and he did. That was the first time in his life he ever felt submissive himself.

So sure I look for those subtle submissive cues in a male and if he interests me, I pounce on him.

~Lashra

_____________________________

“We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path.”

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 37

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/9/2009 10:31:47 AM

PeonForHer

Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline

FR,

Thank, everyone, for your interesting and helpful comments.

LD -
Yes, I do think it'd work better if 'She' were to start small and get bigger with those 'injections of dommeliness' (want of a better phrase). A little thing like "Call me Ma'am" or "Contact me once per day" at the start is - wow. "Watch the entire first series of Sex in the City " is going to be too big. A chore that big (and, indeed, appallingly onerous), I think, is something to be saved for when the relationship is already in first gear at least.

Blaakman,
I think you and RedMagic between you highlight an important point regards the experience, or otherwise, of the dominant in question. As RM says, I'd imagine (more to the point, expect) that a younger woman is a tad more likely to be less experienced than would be an older male at taking the lead. Things would be a lot easier for me otherwise, but I can't take that experience for granted.

atypicalsub,
she and I didn't talk much before meeting. This was wrong and made me uncomfortable. I'd try to avoid that again.

RedMagic,
Do you know if she ever told a man ever in her life, "Sit down," or, "Sit down please," in a way that controlled the situation? She may want to be able to do that -- even be hungry for that -- and yet not know how to pull it off, so be nervous about trying.

She said that she'd had female slaves before. I presume she knew something about dominating, though not of a male. The fact that she'd had female slaves (and was bi), plus the fact that she'd been a sub herself before, made me wonder whether she did actually know what she wanted. But as for . . .
Could you talk to her again, or meet her again? I certainly didn't see any red flags in what you posted. She might just be new. . . .

No, there wasn't any spark and I wouldn't want to try again. I really don't think there was anything there.

Lockit,
I got no sense that she even wanted to discuss anything. We didn't move beyond vanilla - and cool vanilla at that. She wasn't what you'd call a 'communicator'. And, like I said, I find it very difficult to 'be sub' till I know a woman and I get on in a vanilla way. It feels too false otherwise.

V,
No, I didn't wear any clothes to the meeting with her, except flip-flops and a top hat. Do you see this as a teensy problemette?

MzMia,
You're clearly more experience than she was. Yes, I'd have a problem getting my head around telling a dominant when the relationship's begun. It takes both parties. But it all comes back to the same thing: if things haven't yet warmed beyond vanilla, it's not going to happen, no matter which side tries to initiate D or s 'vibes'. Dancing, though? Why not? Certainly I'm not the best dancer - handicapped as I am by having three legs (if you catch my drift) - but I'll try that. Always fancied a bit of ballroom dancing, actually. Anything to see 'her' in one of those low-backed ballgowns (yum).

Akasha,
I don't like submissive posturing . . . . Well, I tried it, made a hash of it, and have concluded I don't like it either. Trembling is one thing, being squirmingly embarrassed is something else.

Lashra,
You, like Akasha and probably all dominants writing here, are completely clear of your dominant tendencies and know how to act on them. A domme 'pouncing' on me? Oooh, great - bring it on. An order from her to 'Take off your shirt' - oh yes, right away, and hopefully I won't tear it at the buttons. *Sigh* - I wish all dominants were that confident. But I might as well wish for the weather to be hot and sultry in winter. I can't make that assumption, especially not here in good old Blighty.

Once again, thank you all for your help. I appreciate it greatly. No luck with that first one and I shan't pursue it. As I always say: there's no point in flogging a barn door after the dead horse has bolted with the spilt milk.

Never mind. As I also always say: plenty more fish in the bush. Strong cup of tea, then get back on my bike.

_____________________________

http://www.domme-chronicles.com

(in reply to Lashra)

Post #: 38

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/9/2009 10:53:20 AM

AAkasha

Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline

There may be two very different types of femdoms, and that's the rub:

* Dominant women who get pleasure from *being served*
* Dominant women who get pleasure from *dominating a man*

Some femdoms may be 50/50 split. Some may be just the 100% "being served" type - in which case, they need a submissive who takes initiative in the service posturing and has that personality.

Me? I am 99% from category B. I get my pleasure from the act of dominance almost entirely - so much so that I have often considered officially relabeling myself as a "TOP".

Akasha

_____________________________

Akasha's Web - All original Femdom content since 1995
Don't email me here, email me at [email protected]

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 39

RE: Does the sub submit first, or the dominant dominate... - 7/9/2009 11:12:16 AM

Venatrix

Posts: 2238
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: PeonForHer

A chore that big (and, indeed, appallingly onerous), I think, is something to be saved for when the relationship is already in first gear at least.

Indeed, but what happens if you mis-read the stage that you are at? She thinks it's in first gear and you think it isn't. She makes the request, you turn her down. I can't speak for anyone else, but I can assure you that having a request turned down means that I would no longer be receptive to a d/s relationship with that person, even though we might be able to remain friends. We might even be able to have vanilla sex together, but that would be as far as I would allow it to go. I'm very much at the stage that I no longer offer second chances, and my ability to forgive and forget becomes ever more limited.

quote:

V,
No, I didn't wear any clothes to the meeting with her, except flip-flops and a top hat. Do you see this as a teensy problemette?

You wore flip-flops with a top hat? No wonder she wasn't interested. And why are you using such big font? Are you and Mrs. Palmer spending too much time together?

(in reply to PeonForHer)

Post #: 40

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