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RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 4:31:20 PM

pixidustpet

Posts: 857
Joined: 6/4/2008
Status: offline

~~fast reply~~

TheEngineer is an inexperienced dominant. he and i both know this. and he is getting better at understanding what i need as a submissive, as well as what he needs as a dominant. we are becoming a good set of partners to each other.

he'd probably be a lousy dominant to someone who expected her every move to be dictated by him, and a god awful one who expected her dominant to be all organized....

bue we fit well together. we balance each other in strengths and weaknesses. and he's getting darn handy with rope and paddle and flogger.....

i think (my own opinion) is that people on *both* sides of the slash forget that they are getting into a relationship with another human being with feelings, and that THOSE things need to be taken into consideration (unless, of course, its a pay-as-you-go situation, or that the relationship has been contracted and understood by both partners to be ONLY play/scene/session and no emotions getting involved).

use common sense. communicate often. make sure things are clearly understood when you say them. all the things that make a 'nilla relationship work? makes a BDSM relationship work.

kitten who needs some reminding from himself about spreading herself too thin....

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 41

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 9:05:05 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The incessant chest thumping and demonizing "wannabee" doms is a very bad concept. Especially while coddling submissives that they have no responsibility in making bad relationship choices.

It destroys our community!

Why?
Because new submissives (who are just as clueless) will now turn on any dom who makes a mistake and label him an asshole. Neither learn nor grow through the experience.
The demonizing is presented in a way that paints making mistakes as WRONG and only one side can do those wrongs, the dominant side. Imagine a world where submissives are empowered BUT INSTEAD OF SEEING THE MISTAKES OF A DOMINANT AS SIGNS OF AN ASSHOLE TOOK THEM AS OPPORTUNITIES TO GROW WITH AND OR EDUCATE THEIR PARTNER?
THEN we would have something that goes like this
"dude, what are you doing, that is a hard limit of mine, stop!"

"Uh why slave, I am dom, hear me roar!"
"Your a great guy but that isn't how you evoke my submission, respect my limits today and I might let you push them tomorrow"
"Cool! Thanks for educating me! That was a fun scene, get together next weekend?"
"Sure, I think you are going to be a great partner, I look forward to next weekend"
And THAT is why I object to demonizing the dominants...

If the kind of guy who says "But I'm a dom I can do what I want" would actually respond to that with "cool thanks for educating me" then there wouldn't be a problem. But if they reply to a submissive saying that something is a hard limit with "I'm the dom" then they'll probably reply to the other line with "you're not really submitting then." And while I don't agree with 'demonizing' people, it's natural for people to talk about their relationships, good and bad, and telling the truth about something that happened isn't demonizing someone.

Also I think "respect my limits today and I might let you push them tomorrow" is going to lead to a lot of dissappointment when the guy realizes "tomorrow" is code for "two years from now" or "when we're married."

ETA - most of the complaining I've heard about wannabe doms is about guys on the internet who send messages like "Strip, bitch" to 20 people a day hoping to get a response. And I don't owe them anything. No submissive owes them anything. They'll figure it out, or they won't, and meanwhile they'll be 'demonizing' the submissives by talking about a bunch of fake, stuck up wanna be submisssives. So it goes.

< Message edited by Elisabella -- 7/16/2009 9:07:30 PM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 42

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 9:07:08 PM

Elisabella

Posts: 3939
Status: offline

Why is the edit button so close to the quote button

(in reply to Elisabella)

Post #: 43

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 10:24:10 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

1. Hate to break it to ya, but 99% of those that call themselves "Doms" or "Masters" or whatever are anything but. Hint: Checking the "Dominant" box on an internet kink site does not make one a Dom/Master.

2. There are "wannabe" Doms/Masters just like there are "wannabe" subs/slaves. But goodness, let's not say/state it because it might hurt the Uber-Toppy's feelings? Not very Toppy, if you ask me... and even less Toppy to whine about it.

3. If I write/post an article on "Asshole Doms" or "Stupid Subs", if you don't fit into the either category, you have nothing to whine about. More often than not, it's those that show the signs of fitting into one of those categories (or don't want to deal with informed subs/slaves) that don't want these things publicized, as it works against them to be Master of the Universe to some doormat who doesn't know any better.

4. There is no "community" here... this is a kink site where anonymous people post and fap about on BDSM related blatherings. One could make a case that those who meet (this means in person) at weekly/monthly BDSM gatherings and so forth have joined a "community" of sorts, but considering a kink site a "community" is a stretch, at best.

5. Assuming that a sub/slave will bolt should a Dom make a simple mistake is more than a bit WEENIE of any alleged Dom/Master. People don't do that unless they're fucked in the head... so if that happens, thank your blessings the idiot is gone and out of your life. And if it's that big of a deal to you, then that comes off as DESPERATE... and not very Toppy. Let's face it... if a sub/slave would bolt that quickly, then you likely haven't done your job as the Dom/Master in the dynamic and given said sub/slave enough reason to stick around.

The fact is, most kink sites are 99% consumed with HNGs, fakes, flakes, and wannabes. Better that people are informed and don't get suckered by one of these idiots. Good, bad, or otherwise, that's my personal opinion on the subject.

(in reply to SlyStone)

Post #: 44

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 10:27:28 PM

crouchingtigress

Posts: 4387
Joined: 3/19/2006
From: Maui
Status: offline

Everyone thinks they are real, and others are fake...they cant all be right.

_____________________________

Service slut, durable plaything, and ponypenquincatdogpig, to Lee Harrington

This is him

"Its none of my buisness what other people think of me."

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Post #: 45

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 10:33:31 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The fact is, most kink sites are 99% consumed with HNGs, fakes, flakes, and wannabes. Better that people are informed and don't get suckered by one of these idiots.

"Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him?"
~ Obi-Wan Kenobi

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Post #: 46

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 10:43:11 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The fact is, most kink sites are 99% consumed with HNGs, fakes, flakes, and wannabes. Better that people are informed and don't get suckered by one of these idiots.

"Who's the more foolish: The fool, or the fool who follows him?"

The one who follows... and LEARNING (via the types of articles to OP is complaining about) helps prevent that. A simple concept and nothing to whine about.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 47

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 10:49:14 PM

Esinn

Posts: 886
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

The incessant chest thumping and demonizing "wannabee" doms is a very bad concept. Especially while coddling submissives that they have no responsibility in making bad relationship choices.

It destroys our community!

Why?
Because new submissives (who are just as clueless) will now turn on any dom who makes a mistake and label him an asshole. Neither learn nor grow through the experience.
The demonizing is presented in a way that paints making mistakes as WRONG and only one side can do those wrongs, the dominant side. Imagine a world where submissives are empowered BUT INSTEAD OF SEEING THE MISTAKES OF A DOMINANT AS SIGNS OF AN ASSHOLE TOOK THEM AS OPPORTUNITIES TO GROW WITH AND OR EDUCATE THEIR PARTNER?
THEN we would have something that goes like this
"dude, what are you doing, that is a hard limit of mine, stop!"

"Uh why slave, I am dom, hear me roar!"
"Your a great guy but that isn't how you evoke my submission, respect my limits today and I might let you push them tomorrow"
"Cool! Thanks for educating me! That was a fun scene, get together next weekend?"
"Sure, I think you are going to be a great partner, I look forward to next weekend"
And THAT is why I object to demonizing the dominants...

There is good and bad in every bunch. Possibly more bad on the internet than our reality. However, if a submissive is too weak, incompetent or simply not balanced enough to recognize this then rest assured I will drag them to your home.

quote:

What inspired this thread, Michael? I do agree that "demonizing" folks is wrong, but isn't it useful to point out what qualities a twue asshole possesses?

(To credit it was addressed)

But:

quote:

I gave up on the thread because one word was taken out of everything I said and then used out of context.

Although I will not post them I can arrive at a few of my own conclusions why this thread was started.

Any Dom who does not possess enough wit, strength or confidence to overcome, "But Daddie he was called a douchebag" (or any objection relevant to this discussion) should release his submissive to you as your tender heart methology is what is necessary - gah.

The only thing necessary for the trimuph of evil is for good men to do nothing. Try replacing the word "Evil" with: Douchebag dom, idiodts, ass-jacks. I wish not to limit your imagination.

_____________________________

Let's break the law

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 48

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 10:59:40 PM

NihilusZero

Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The one who follows... and LEARNING (via the types of articles to OP is complaining about) helps prevent that. A simple concept and nothing to whine about.

The original post and this kind of reaction to it are both phantom issues. You realize this naivete you are defending is the exact same sort of creature you are railing against?

It just so happens that that naivete, in the hands of a D-type, translates into mishandling and misuse while, in the hands of an s-type, translates into poor decision-making skills in whom to surrender to and how to surrender.

So, the people you are trying to help "learn" are part of that "99%" problem, not separate from it.

< Message edited by NihilusZero -- 7/16/2009 11:00:54 PM >

_____________________________

"I know it's all a game
I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
~Siouxsie & the Banshees

NihilusZero.com

CM Sex God du Jour
CM Hall Monitor

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Post #: 49

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 11:16:18 PM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The one who follows... and LEARNING (via the types of articles to OP is complaining about) helps prevent that. A simple concept and nothing to whine about.

The original post and this kind of reaction to it are both phantom issues. You realize this naivete you are defending is the exact same sort of creature you are railing against?

It just so happens that that naivete, in the hands of a D-type, translates into mishandling and misuse while, in the hands of an s-type, translates into poor decision-making skills in whom to surrender to and how to surrender.

So, the people you are trying to help "learn" are part of that "99%" problem, not separate from it.

But the difference that the OP is trying to get across is MOTIVE. In particular those whose intentions are good, but makes mistakes, perhaps even to the point of injury while topping someone in a scene but instead of the bottom talking to them about those mistakes, they talk to everyone else they know EXCEPT the person who made the mistakes. If the top has no idea they fucked up, how does that help anyone?

He isn't talking about someone who is careless and who could care less about learning good topping skills!

< Message edited by BossyShoeBitch -- 7/16/2009 11:17:11 PM >

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 50

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 11:17:33 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The fact is, most kink sites are 99% consumed with HNGs, fakes, flakes, and wannabes.

I assume of course that you are not in that 99%, and of course are in that top 1%? I must by psychic or something to know that sort of stuff.

You might want to dial back the vitriol. The forums here are kind of different than many. There are quite a few here on this board who routinely play in LA at places like the Lair, Passive Arts, and the rest. There are posters here who teach BDSM classes in LA. Many of the frequent posters on this board actually know each other in real life or at least know someone who has met the others.

One thing the demonizing DOES do, is make sure that 100% of the newbie subs are too scared to play with anyone but that "top precious 1%" Funny how that seems to work...

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Post #: 51

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 11:20:12 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NihilusZero

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The one who follows... and LEARNING (via the types of articles to OP is complaining about) helps prevent that. A simple concept and nothing to whine about.

So, the people you are trying to help "learn" are part of that "99%" problem, not separate from it.

I'm not trying to "help" anyone, that's not my job... plenty of books about BDSM out there that... you know... are there to "help" others "learn". Equally, I not advocating silance just because some Toppies are insecure about people discussing "bad Doms"; that's stupid, at best. "Shhhhh.... don't say anything!" Give me a break.

(in reply to NihilusZero)

Post #: 52

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 11:24:53 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The fact is, most kink sites are 99% consumed with HNGs, fakes, flakes, and wannabes.

I assume of course that you are not in that 99%, and of course are in that top 1%? I must by psychic or something to know that sort of stuff.

Clearly not... So "psychic"? No... Making silly assumptions? BINGO!!! Psst... when you post something on a public website, you're going to get opposing opinions. Deal with it.

< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 7/16/2009 11:27:46 PM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 53

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 11:31:02 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The fact is, most kink sites are 99% consumed with HNGs, fakes, flakes, and wannabes.

I assume of course that you are not in that 99%, and of course are in that top 1%? I must by psychic or something to know that sort of stuff.

Clearly not... So "psychic"? No... Making silly assumptions? BINGO!!! Psst... when you post something on a public website, you're going to get opposing opinions. Deal with it.

I am SO sorry to have assumed you were in that 1%, I deeply apologize, how could I have EVER made such a silly assumption? Oh, and thanks for making my day.

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Post #: 54

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 11:40:00 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The fact is, most kink sites are 99% consumed with HNGs, fakes, flakes, and wannabes.

I assume of course that you are not in that 99%, and of course are in that top 1%? I must by psychic or something to know that sort of stuff.

Clearly not... So "psychic"? No... Making silly assumptions? BINGO!!! Psst... when you post something on a public website, you're going to get opposing opinions. Deal with it.

I am SO sorry to have assumed you were in that 1%, I deeply apologize, how could I have EVER made such a silly assumption? Oh, and thanks for making my day.

You're quite insecure, aren't you? The "silly assumption" you made was to ASSUME I place myself in some elite class, when I don't. Stating "99%" is an expression... it's used to make a point; which you lacked the ability to understand. Though it is clear your fragile ego can't take any criticism, which also explains your whine in this thread. "Oh golly, golly... pweeeease don't anyone tell the poor submittives of teh bad Dommys out there, because it'll make it that much harder for me to get some ass!" Grow up... if you're that worred about it, then you have little to offer.

< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 7/16/2009 11:41:30 PM >

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 55

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 11:40:57 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

Okay, MasterSlaveLA,

What I think is most insulting is that you know none of the people you are talking to here and yet you lump them in with everyone else. Just as others according to you are able to hold Bullshit beliefs, you are as well.

Where I will agree that many people who utilize on-line forums are not interested in a reality based dynamic it does not make the dynamic they choose any less real just because it does not match your own. I would hope that someone who speaks so highly of what is and is not a dynamic would also understand that dynamics come in many forms and are valid to those who seek them.

I am very real and can be verified by many of the people who have posted on this thread, some I have met in person others have spoke on the phone and others simply known over the time I have been here.

I have never met Iron Bear but there is NO DOUBT in my mind that should I meet him in person I would feel no different about him then as I do currently. I also know that many people who are in existing relationships exagerate the actual level of dynamic they share because they want others to see them as something that can't actually achieve and use Forums as a way to live out this Major Massive Dynamic that in reality is unachievable in thier actual relationship.

In the 20 to 30 posts you have made on Collar me since late 2008, what have you contributed that would tell anyone here that you are just PLAYING as a BDSM Relationship?

Should I then assume you are a Fake Wanna-Be Horney Net Geek, most likely a Guy who stole a picture off the net and pretends to be the strong submissive side of a Power Dynamic? According to your own numbers it is a much better assumption that you are a fake then that you are real as there are so few real people on-line?

NO. That would be wrong to judge someone you don't even know. That is until you get a feel for them and well from what you have posted here recently I think you are judgemental of anyone who doesn't agree with you and frankly someone who I would be more inclined to take as a passing curiosity rather than take seriously as a valid opinion if for no other reason that I would have to cut through all the Bullshit to find the actual point you MAY be making rather that just getting a straight forward answer.

It is not up to me to determine who is Fake and who is a Wanna be, It is up to me to determine who matters and whos opinions I take into account.

Perhaps you might want to get to know some of the people here before you write them off so easily.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Post #: 56

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 11:44:42 PM

BossyShoeBitch

Posts: 3931
Joined: 1/13/2007
From: South Florida
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyMichael

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

The fact is, most kink sites are 99% consumed with HNGs, fakes, flakes, and wannabes.

I assume of course that you are not in that 99%, and of course are in that top 1%? I must be psychic or something to know that sort of stuff.

Clearly not... So "psychic"? No... Making silly assumptions? BINGO!!! Psst... when you post something on a public website, you're going to get opposing opinions. Deal with it.

I am SO sorry to have assumed you were in that 1%, I deeply apologize, how could I have EVER made such a silly assumption? Oh, and thanks for making my day.

LOL!

_____________________________

A clever man can get out of situations a wise man never gets into...
A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.

(in reply to SimplyMichael)

Post #: 57

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 11:44:53 PM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I am very real...

Then what I wrote doesn't apply to you, does it?

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 58

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 11:51:36 PM

SteelofUtah

Posts: 5307
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: St George Utah
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterSlaveLA

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I am very real...

Then what I wrote doesn't apply to you, does it?

Wow, out of all I wrote that is all you felt you should address.

In this you have helped to secure the belief I held.

What you wrote, applies to me in that with the broad stroke of your brush you would paint me in your tight little circle and I would be content to know that you are incorrect the sad thing is that you honestly believe what you wrote and that can be a dangerous thing to those who may at some time lean to you to understand.

No Offence but I would not like to live in the world of the MSLA Paint Brush, luckiny for me I know it doesn't really exist.

Take care of yourself and Bless your Heart.

Steel

_____________________________

Just Steel
Resident Therapeutic Metallurgist
The Steel Warm-Up © ™
For the Uber Posters
Thanks for the Grammatical support : ) ~ Term

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Post #: 59

RE: Why demonizing bad doms is bad - 7/16/2009 11:59:47 PM

SimplyMichael

Posts: 7229
Joined: 1/7/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SteelofUtah

I am very real and can be verified by many of the people who have posted on this thread, some I have met in person others have spoke on the phone and others simply known over the time I have been here.

I personally think that Steel isn't real. Just because I saw those goddamn marks a couple of weeks later on a certain hot woman's ass is NOT proof he exists. I think he is just one of those urban legends, a larger than life myth who no mere mortal could ever live up to. I just wish I could make it down for that hot woman's birthday party, in LA no less, but alas, my mom won't let me off of restriction and it is a school night anyway.

(in reply to SteelofUtah)

Post #: 60

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