RE: HEALTH CARE (Full Version)

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Lockit -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 4:04:11 PM)

Well my daughter just called a couple of hours ago. She has good insurance. Now she has a dx... a new one outside our genetic mix. Does she dare tell her doctor of the other things she has so that she is not at risk from any treatment the doctor might give her and risk being rejected by her insurance company? Either way it is a risk. Either way she will risk her health, finances and maybe her husbands job because they chose to use his insurance rather than what she could get? If she loses the one, can she with her pre-existing get on from her company? Will she lose it all as I did and will her husband stand by her as the illness and all that comes with it makes it all overwhelming, with no solutions? (My ex's pretty much left because of the strain of finances, insurance company rejection and having to deal with clinic's for the poor and poor treatment, both medical and from the medical community. Yes, I have an ex husband who can say, I cost him the house.)

Shall whoever is in charge genetically test people and make sure they don't give birth to more with genetic problems? Shall they consider that one day because of your genetic's, you are a risk to insure and when shall that genetic testing be done? Could you not only lose your insurance but your job because an employer must pay a higher rate if they are forced to provide insurance?

(There is a doctor, lawyer and a trashman in a boat with only enough to keep two alive. Which do you throw out? Rembember that one on some high school exams?)

I don't know anyone with the answers.  Some have some good idea's, but as long as humans are predisposed to certain things (and most are) and insurance companies can dump them... their health will worsen and then what do we do? Make dog food out of them?

And what do we do with how this all filters through society?



angelikaJ -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 4:10:19 PM)

Lockit,

Some states have different laws regarding pre-existing conditions.

Her state labor division should have information as well as her human resource manager.
(I think she could phrase the questions in general terms if she wants to keep her personal info private at work.)



willbeurdaddy -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 4:39:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy

...and from your first link......

One of the important findings of this survey is that Americans in the poorest income quintile report fair or poor health, obesity and severe mobility impairment more frequently than their Canadian counterparts. At the other end of the income spectrum, there are no systematic differences in the reporting of fair or poor health or mobility impairment among the most affluent households on either side of the border.



So whats your point? That excerpt is just an indication that the differences are demographic/lifestyle differences not health care delivery differences, as the article in the (second if I remember right) link delves into further.



Lockit -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 4:42:06 PM)

Basically that says to me... that money and medical care make it easier to withstand health problems.  Pretty simple.

Thank you Angelica... I will try to discuss it with her and her husband when when they in a better frame of mind and have some time to digest this.



Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 4:55:36 PM)

Schwarzenegger Backs President Obama's Health Care Reform

President Obama's push for fast-tracked, health care legislation is meeting resistance from within his own party, but he has at least one governor from the other side of the aisle on his side -- Arnold Schwarzenegger.With the state of California facing $26 billion in revenue shortfalls, Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said he has already had to make deep budget cuts that will, no doubt, be wrenching for some low-income families who are already struggling with health care.


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8143610&page=1





willbeurdaddy -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 5:23:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Schwarzenegger Backs President Obama's Health Care Reform

President Obama's push for fast-tracked, health care legislation is meeting resistance from within his own party, but he has at least one governor from the other side of the aisle on his side -- Arnold Schwarzenegger.With the state of California facing $26 billion in revenue shortfalls, Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said he has already had to make deep budget cuts that will, no doubt, be wrenching for some low-income families who are already struggling with health care.


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8143610&page=1





Of course he does go on to say, essentially, that it needs to be paid for through cost controls, not tax increases. And, as the CBO points out, the proposals do nothing in the area of cost controls.



Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 5:48:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Schwarzenegger Backs President Obama's Health Care Reform

President Obama's push for fast-tracked, health care legislation is meeting resistance from within his own party, but he has at least one governor from the other side of the aisle on his side -- Arnold Schwarzenegger.With the state of California facing $26 billion in revenue shortfalls, Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said he has already had to make deep budget cuts that will, no doubt, be wrenching for some low-income families who are already struggling with health care.


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8143610&page=1





Of course he does go on to say, essentially, that it needs to be paid for through cost controls, not tax increases. And, as the CBO points out, the proposals do nothing in the area of cost controls.



Healthcare reform will reduce the deficit. Obama said he’s very concerned about the deficit and passing health care reform will not increase the deficit unlike the Bush tax cuts.

The alternative, which is the system we have now, is worse because it’s not sustainable.

The pharmaceutical industry said it’s willing to put $80 billion on the table and that is because there is more than $80 billion of waste.

AARP endorses this reform. The American medical Association endorses this reform and so does the business community because it is adversely affecting American competitiveness.

Obama sent a letter saying who are the healthcare executives that have visited the White House unlike Bush and Cheney who had secret meetings with oil company executives about energy policy.

Obama said he wants to cover every American and the best way to do it is with the single-payer method.

Wall Street took extraordinary risks with other people’s money and all of us now are paying the price.

We need to take the risk to reform the health care system today to reap the benefits of reform.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 6:07:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Schwarzenegger Backs President Obama's Health Care Reform

President Obama's push for fast-tracked, health care legislation is meeting resistance from within his own party, but he has at least one governor from the other side of the aisle on his side -- Arnold Schwarzenegger.With the state of California facing $26 billion in revenue shortfalls, Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said he has already had to make deep budget cuts that will, no doubt, be wrenching for some low-income families who are already struggling with health care.


http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=8143610&page=1





Of course he does go on to say, essentially, that it needs to be paid for through cost controls, not tax increases. And, as the CBO points out, the proposals do nothing in the area of cost controls.



Healthcare reform will reduce the deficit. not the way it is currently proposed. It increases the deficit by $1 trillion over 10 yearsObama said he’s very concerned about the deficit and passing health care reform will not increase the deficit unlike the Bush tax cuts.

The alternative, which is the system we have now, is worse because it’s not sustainable. nonsense, it is quite sustainable, and with minimal government interference will be improved by market forces

The pharmaceutical industry said it’s willing to put $80 billion on the table and that is because there is more than $80 billion of waste. cool. now come up withe the other $920 billion

AARP endorses this reform. Link? AFAIK They support some reform, not Obamas particular plan. Their primary concern is medicare, and anything that increases the governments role is likely to ensure medicares continued funding. No surprise. The American medical Association endorses this reform and is facing some major internal problems and loss of membership over it

and so does the business community because it is adversely affecting American competitiveness. baloney. As you can see from the stock market reaction the business community is thrilled that he is facing problems in getting it passed. I don't have a single client that thinks Obama's plan will do anything but cost money.


Obama sent a letter saying who are the healthcare executives that have visited the White House unlike Bush and Cheney who had secret meetings with oil company executives about energy policy. get Bush off your brain, Obama is today's problem not Bush


Obama said he wants to cover every American and the best way to do it is with the single-payer method.and he's wrong, just like he was wrong about the stimulus package


Wall Street took extraordinary risks with other people’s money and all of us now are paying the price. non sequiter


We need to take the risk to reform the health care system today to reap the benefits of reform. we don't need to take risks like hasty consideration of how to interfere with 16% of GDP. Why the rush? Will health care worsen if several months are taken to carefully consider options? Or is it a political play, with delay only hurting the chances of pushing something through? The same "we have to act now" bullshit was spread over the stimulus package, the auto industry etc. Its called a power grab, not reform.






Lockit -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 6:07:56 PM)

Okay this made my mind up... I am outraged!

http://fredthompsonshow.com/premiumstream?dispid=320&headerDest=L3BnL2pzcC9tZWRpYS9mbGFzaHdlbGNvbWUuanNwP3BpZD03MzUxJnBsYXlsaXN0PXRydWUmY2hhcnR0eXBlPWNoYXJ0

If this is true... people like me are dog food... (not actual dog food... just an expression of means little and mixed meat.)



willbeurdaddy -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 6:13:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Okay this made my mind up... I am outraged!

http://fredthompsonshow.com/premiumstream?dispid=320&headerDest=L3BnL2pzcC9tZWRpYS9mbGFzaHdlbGNvbWUuanNwP3BpZD03MzUxJnBsYXlsaXN0PXRydWUmY2hhcnR0eXBlPWNoYXJ0

If this is true... people like me are dog food... (not actual dog food... just an expression of means little and mixed meat.)


welcome to healthcare rationing.



Lockit -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 6:17:37 PM)

Is this new bill published anywhere that we can read it?



DarkSteven -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 6:19:07 PM)

It's simple.  Follow the money.

Why is it that health care costs have increased?  Where are the areas that can be cut? 

It's a fallacy that we have the choices to either follow the current mess, or just graft a single-payer system into the mess.  We need to freaking FIX IT.

The problem with the proposed system is that it moves the focus from reducing costs and improving care, where it should be, to implementing a Byzantine system.  And once there is a guaranteed payer in the government, the HMOs will be able to set standard rates, which will inhibit the needed analysis to drive down costs.



maybemaybenot -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 6:46:45 PM)

Among my many reasons for opposing this bill, the one that I just keep fixating on is:

Federal Employees would be exempt from this plan. Soooo... the ones mandating my health care and the guy who just gave a ridiculous press conference to tell me how fabulous this bill is going to be for me.... won't hop on the gravy train and get all this " good healthcare" we peons will be getting. They get to keep that Federal Health Insurance .. you know the one Kennedy just got state of the art treatment for his brain tumor, that most of us can't get now, and surely will not be able to under this mess.
Yes, the one where their surving spouses are covered for life as are their ex spouses in many cases.

We get a dietician for diabetics who need amputations and allergy pills for kids with bad tonsils.



Louve00 -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 6:51:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Is this new bill published anywhere that we can read it?




http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/health_care/

http://www.healthreform.gov/

I don't know that there is any 'bill' yet, to speak of.  Just ideas.  Obama is pushing to get it out.



Lockit -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 7:05:15 PM)

He is fucking talking about it on tv and he doesn't even know what is in that bill he is pushing through. I didn't say a word when he was voted in... I said... it is what it is... and now he keeps pushing things through without knowing what they are or anyone really knowing what they are voting in.

I love that shit... I'm the President and something needs to be done. He's talking out his ass.

I accept what my fate is here... but god damn these fuckers for what they are doing.



Louve00 -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 7:44:13 PM)

That would be an affirmative.  I truly believe he went on tv to soothe the American people about why he wanted to push it through fast, and how we could afford it.  He wants to get it done by August, before Congress lets out.  But he also backed down from that rigidly firm deadline of August, saying he wanted to do it right before signing anything in.  But he really hasn't laid out anything.  Congress is working to put this bill together by August so he can pass it or not.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 8:12:32 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Louve00

That would be an affirmative.  I truly believe he went on tv to soothe the American people about why he wanted to push it through fast, and how we could afford it.  He wants to get it done by August, before Congress lets out.  But he also backed down from that rigidly firm deadline of August, saying he wanted to do it right before signing anything in.  But he really hasn't laid out anything.  Congress is working to put this bill together by August so he can pass it or not.




See, that's the problem. His White House shopped the whole project out to Reid and Pelosi, and the committees. The Administration laid out objectives, and told Congress, "here, build me something that meets these goals." And apparently, as near as I can determine, neither he nor his staff have had any substantive involvement in the process beyond that point.

That's typically not the way this is done, especially on a piece of legislation as critical as this. Typically, the White House works closely with Congressional leaders in writing the bill, so that by the time it hits the President's desk, he knows what's in it. But from what I've read, that's not happening here, and the result of that is that he looks increasingly out of touch and clueless, and the legislation is looking increasingly like an even bigger train wreck than that monstrosity of a stimulus bill that was inflicted upon us all a few months ago by the same Keystone Cop legislative "leaders" who are busily fucking up this one. At best, he's handling this very, very badly, and I'm increasingly disappointed in him and concerned about what this says about his leadership.

And as for his sales pitch tonight... I swear to god, every time the guy opens his mouth, I trust him less. He, once again, offered almost no details - just urgent warnings that we need to get it done within the next ten minutes. He did absolutely nothing to make his case, at least as far as I heard. I didn't hear the whole thing, but I came away from what i did hear knowing nothing more about the proposal than I did before I turned on the radio. This guy is wearing off on me at a very rapid pace. Very rapid pace. Someone needs to slap him upside that arrogant head of his and remind him that the election is over, he won, and he needs to shut off the damned campaign rhetoric and start doing  some presidenting. Stay off of my fucking TV unless you have something to say, Mr. President. Please stop insulting my intelligence by pretending to say things you are not saying.



Lockit -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 8:12:50 PM)

Whoa... I expected the Rep's to be talking bad about him... but the dem's are all over him in the news after that lil appearance tonight.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 8:28:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Whoa... I expected the Rep's to be talking bad about him... but the dem's are all over him in the news after that lil appearance tonight.


Really? That's fantastic! Maybe he'll finally start to "get" it. Very encouraging.

I'd better turn on my TV. I want to catch this.



Brain -> RE: HEALTH CARE (7/22/2009 8:55:13 PM)

If Obama passes healthcare reform he will have succeeded where Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter and Lyndon Baines Johnson failed. What a joke people saying that Obama is being hasty when they have been delaying healthcare reform for over 50 years! Just more of the same krud to stop progress.

Right now the insurance companies are making the decisions not doctors. We don’t have government run healthcare we have Wall Street run healthcare. What a joke it is to say the government gets in the way of you and your doctor when it’s the exact opposite. It’s the corporations that interfere between a patient and the doctor.

The current system is not sustainable. Healthcare costs have doubled in the last eight years so and the number one reason Americans go bankrupt is because of healthcare. To say that what is going on now is sustainable you can only say that if you’ve been drinking too much Kool-Aid.

Tell it to General Motors that complains about not being able to sell cars because of healthcare costs: businesses are not able to compete.

The president is just trying to make sure everybody has good health care and they don’t right now. Obama is trying to reduce healthcare costs so he can reduce the deficit. People that are the happiest with their healthcare are the ones that have not used it yet.

Thursday the president is going to the Cleveland clinic and he has already gone to the Mayo Clinic. They have put forward ideas from the Mayo Clinic from experts to get rid of the politics of healthcare reform and will continue to listen to ideas to make this bill better.

Health reform is central to the effort to rebuild the economy. The president said he wants millionaires to pay more in taxes to help pay for reform and I don’t have a problem with that. Obama is not wrong because he listens to all the experts not to people who have conflicts of interest and don’t know what they’re talking about.

Frontline Sick around America, watch the full program PBS

As the worsening economy leads to massive job losses—potentially forcing millions more Americans to go without health insurance—FRONTLINE travels the country examining the nation's broken health care system and explores the need for a fundamental overhaul. Veteran FRONTLINE producer Jon Palfreman dissects the private insurance system, a system that not only fails to cover 46 million Americans but also leaves millions more underinsured and at risk of bankruptcy

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundamerica/view/




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