RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (Full Version)

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Arpig -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/18/2009 11:22:50 PM)

PK, I never thought I would end up on this side of a debate, but right is right...
quote:

Disclaimer for the more senstive amoung us: This is an opinion. I'm not against female submission..I just analyze it more than I should. I've always been one to think how one's actions affects a group as a whole

NO!!! WRONG!!! VERBOTTEN!! One should NEVER base their actions on how it reflects on the group as a whole.  You should behave in a manner consistant with your own conciensce (sp). period. There is no better judge of right and wrong than your own conciencse (again sp?).

quote:

Those that thinking being called a bitch, cunt or slut a cutsey endearment don't realize that there are those men that can't keep it in the context of play and actually believed we all find it acceptable.
Bull shit, bullshit ten feet deep! A woman who desires to be called a slut, or a whore, or a mahogany bookend is in no way (let me repeat NO WAY) responsible for the actions of anybody but herself. The fact that there might be a guy out there who takes a given sub's desire to be treated like an object and transpose that to thinking all subs desire this is in no way whatsoever the fault of the sub. It is the fault of the reader if they believe such to be so.

quote:

What is it you really want? Acceptance, love, respect, a sense of belonging?
Maybe, maybe none of those things maybe the less of a connection the better for that particular person. Remember there are a lot of really twisted people (myself among them) here in the supposed community.

quote:

And you are willing to do anything to get it? If so, that is your weakness. And a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.
Why is a willingness to do whatever is required to achieve one's goals/fantasies a weakness?




Roselaure -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/19/2009 7:31:58 AM)

 
quote:



What is it you really want? Acceptance, love, respect, a sense of belonging? And you are willing to do anything to get it? If so, that is your weakness. And a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.


I spent way too much of my life worrying about what other people thought of me. I have to be the person that I am, and if that means some dipshit gets the wrong idea about women in general, then that is his bag of rocks.

And that's what the women's movement was all about, sister.  Giving women the freedom to be who they are.  Weak link, my ass.



LaTigresse -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/19/2009 7:41:21 AM)

I struggle with seeing some submissive women submit to, and serve, some dominant men. It is my thing, my negative perception of that particular man, that colours my opinion. I respect very few men, most I look at and think........what a doofus. And wonder what the hell ANY woman could possibly see in. It's me, my issue. I recognise that and move on.



GoddessOrchid -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/19/2009 7:47:35 AM)

The issue comes from a male dominated society that have treated women so poorly. Women are considered for many men as second class and therefore I become concerned that not all men who are dominanting are doing it for the right reason. Domestic violence, murder of women, rape- is at is highest in the world and in the United States. I am sure women who wish to be submissive do it from their heart and I have nothing against a woman doingso, but living in this society where the double standards are clearly stated that men are better than women. And if you are a strong or assertive women you must be broken- it is hard to see a submissive any other than a woman falling into the role that society has conformed for them.

There's alot of submissive women who come from abusive backgrounds- and this is even more concerning for me. Because what is D/s and what is plain ole vanilla gone bad?




antipode -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/19/2009 8:36:50 AM)

quote:

I just discovered that i am uncapable of seeing women submit to men,


You just need to respect other people's choices, none of that is any of your business, if you are not involved in the relationship. Respect, simple and straightforward.



sravaka -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/19/2009 9:02:35 AM)

FR

OP....   if you want to be an excellent person (as opposed to an excellent man...)...  quit viewing this in gendered terms at all.  Some prefer to dominate, some prefer to submit, irrespective of genitalia.  Would you deny women submissives the opportunity to feel what you feel when you submit for the sake of your perception of the politics?  If so I smack you, and not in a nice way.

So there.



DesFIP -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/19/2009 9:43:19 AM)

Arpig, one caveat. A woman who likes being called humiliating names is responsible for picking a partner who understands the difference between doing so to make her hotter and doing so to abuse her emotionally. She is not responsible for him being an asshole, she is responsible for choosing him as a partner.

As far as the op goes, I don't think it's dominance you object to but sadism. So if this was in your home, then tell them you don't appreciate them indulging in this in front of you, they should go home. If at a club, then walk out of scenes that you find disturbing. In their home, tell them you'll see them for coffee tomorrow but you don't want to watch them scening. By doing it in public, in front of people who have not consented to observe this they are telling you that they get off on exhibitionism. Which is fine as long as the people watching get off on being voyeurs, and as you aren't one it isn't fine to do it in front of you. Nor is it fine for you to go places where you know you will have to watch.

The sheer idea of needle play squicks me, but I'm not telling people they can't. All I'm saying is if they invite me to dinner and then start this I'm out of there.



Dastan -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/19/2009 3:12:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Since when do South American women hold higher power in society and family than their men do?
Except maybe in Cali, which is renowned for the beauty of their women.

Certainly not in Ecuador where Lorena Bobbitt is practically a patron saint to previously downtrodden women who for the first time can gain some power by reminding him he has to sleep sometimes and she has the sharp knives at her disposal.

I'm submissive, but I am not beaten, abused or humiliated.

And if these people get off on doing this in public, in front of people who haven't consented to see it, they deserve to go to jail - not you.

People who find rough sex to whatever degree exciting should do it at home, not in the grocery store. If I see some guy backhand his kid or wife in the store I'm not going to believe they're in a d/s relationship and as HOH he can do whatever he wants. I will call the cops.



First of, Cali, in Colombia, my country, is kind of a bad example since in latter years they have been contaminated a lot by the gene-trash of the Andes region with their customs, but my people tend to hold woman in a respected place. I am part of the caribbean region, but my people predate the palenques and others cultural groups as I descend from what soem may call gypsies.



LotusSong -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/19/2009 7:17:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

And you are willing to do anything to get it? If so, that is your weakness. And a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link.
Why is a willingness to do whatever is required to achieve one's goals/fantasies a weakness?


... for I have lived enough to see the consequences of peoples' actions. And I apologize for the permisivness we hippies raised our um's with. To break the rules one must first know what the rules are.. we blew them (rules) off and left no base, Now, they have to start from scratch to learn only that our parents' parents were right.

Good luck and good night.



Roselaure -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/19/2009 7:34:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I struggle with seeing some submissive women submit to, and serve, some dominant men. It is my thing, my negative perception of that particular man, that colours my opinion. I respect very few men, most I look at and think........what a doofus. And wonder what the hell ANY woman could possibly see in. It's me, my issue. I recognise that and move on.


Exactly LaTigresse.  I have seen scenes that distressed me a bit or squicked me out.  Just not my thing.  But it was clearly doing it for the participants.  Good for them. 



slaveluci -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/19/2009 8:07:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

Put on the big girl panties and realize it's different strokes for different folks, bring your nose out of the air and learn some tolerance.

I kind of got the impression the OP is asking for help to "learn some tolerance." Telling someone to just get over it or stop it isn't going to help them learn HOW.

OP, I applaud you for being able to openly admit you feel such bigotry and for asking how to get past it. I don't have a pat answer for you but I think everybody has some sort of bigotry they need to work through even if they can't readily see or admit it.

For me personally, I've always found spending time around people I have negative feelings about help me to see them as more human and understand them alot better. When you're "one on one" with someone and really get to see how they work, it's usually alot harder to dismiss them or feel bigoted against them. At least that's been my experience. Good luck.............luci



Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/20/2009 2:30:07 AM)

Dastan, you need to get a grip and think in terms of these women wanting and enjoying this and it's their freedom of choice. They are not victims, this is what they want. It's their choice and right to do so. I am friends with this one married couple, and she will go on a rant about the feminist movement attitude imposes upon her FREEDOM pf choice. In Short, you are Imposing yourself upon anothers FREEDOM, which ironic as it sounds you are the one which is committing a wrong against these women. Think about it for a moment... you are not liking the choices people make of thier own FREE WILL. Your friendship ended and thank goodness you did not end up in jail. Respect the rights and freedom of choice people make for themselves. Many of these women who have submitted to a man, just might wanna kick your ass for imposing yourself in bad ways upon them. You are more of the Bad Person being abusive and hence why the friendship ended.

I am going to go out on a limb here, there is a reason why you feel the way you do. Perhaps some issues from your own past that are effecting you. You'd need to explore those to fix things, until you do so what is wrong with you will remain wrong.



Dastan -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/20/2009 9:14:30 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

Dastan, you need to get a grip and think in terms of these women wanting and enjoying this and it's their freedom of choice. They are not victims, this is what they want. It's their choice and right to do so. I am friends with this one married couple, and she will go on a rant about the feminist movement attitude imposes upon her FREEDOM pf choice. In Short, you are Imposing yourself upon anothers FREEDOM, which ironic as it sounds you are the one which is committing a wrong against these women. Think about it for a moment... you are not liking the choices people make of thier own FREE WILL.



----> Well, it is that which brought me to ask. I felt ashamed but it's just that the thought of a woman, a lady, dominant or submissive, under a guy's authority and the humiliation ad pain play....I mean, it's like poking a tiger with a stick and hoping it won't bash against the bars of his cage until he breaks it....I just feel it's so wrong. Women are sacred to us, and to see a lady in such a position...it just strikes a nerve in me, a deep sensitive one..........

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

Your friendship ended and thank goodness you did not end up in jail. Respect the rights and freedom of choice people make for themselves. Many of these women who have submitted to a man, just might wanna kick your ass for imposing yourself in bad ways upon them. You are more of the Bad Person being abusive and hence why the friendship ended.



---------> In my defense, I didn't know about her rape and forced sex fantasies so when I heard the screams and the words of the guy, a shard as it was to understand his italian, I just busted in and wailed on the guy. Now, two things: it is not my fault that the men in his country are not taught the arts of fighting in due time as they grow up, but I did not strike with malice in my technique toc ause fractures, and I surely didn't apply full force in my blows, so I didn't really went on him as some sort of bloodthirsty rampaging brute.....

......If I had known before hand that this was the scene they played, I would have stopped, but it's the same as running on a military base shooting blanks, someone will mistake what you do and shoot your ass with a live round. He just happened to make a girl cry wolf just the same moment a pack of hounds and hunters were passing by..any shots fired are innocent.....

quote:

ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

I am going to go out on a limb here, there is a reason why you feel the way you do. Perhaps some issues from your own past that are effecting you. You'd need to explore those to fix things, until you do so what is wrong with you will remain wrong.


-----> That's the problem. I may come froma culture where women are respected. No, it's not a gynarchical society, but a matrilinnear one as much as a patrilinnear one and both genders are balanced, as opposed to the people of the rest of the country, not to be racist or else, but my people have better customs in that sense and I just don't find a way to see women submitting as a normal thing, the same a fervient catholic cannot see the Virgin Mary dragged through the mud in the same Passion of a Christ as your religion depicts it was in the viacrucis.



Dastan -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/20/2009 9:18:44 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: slaveluci


quote:

ORIGINAL: CatdeMedici

Put on the big girl panties and realize it's different strokes for different folks, bring your nose out of the air and learn some tolerance.

I kind of got the impression the OP is asking for help to "learn some tolerance." Telling someone to just get over it or stop it isn't going to help them learn HOW.

OP, I applaud you for being able to openly admit you feel such bigotry and for asking how to get past it. I don't have a pat answer for you but I think everybody has some sort of bigotry they need to work through even if they can't readily see or admit it.

For me personally, I've always found spending time around people I have negative feelings about help me to see them as more human and understand them alot better. When you're "one on one" with someone and really get to see how they work, it's usually alot harder to dismiss them or feel bigoted against them. At least that's been my experience. Good luck.............luci



Miss Luci...thank you for your words....I am trying, but it's just that....for example, let's take you. You sound as an smart, caring, sensitive and strong woman, so it's almost impossible to me to stand seeing you kneel and kiss some dude's feet and act as he's better than you, because you are showing such traits, such characteristics, gifts, that I cannot help but seeing it right if it's the other way around, you in control, him in obeyance, and I don't actually go to the whole leather and lace scene, i just see it as a loving authority. There, here's the quid of the issue....why someone as valuable and special as you submits ? Hardly I can believe someone can deserve to control you, even if they do, to dominate you is ...odd.



Mercnbeth -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/20/2009 9:31:05 AM)

quote:

There, here's the quid of the issue....why someone as valuable and special as you submits ?


because submission is not necessarily a dirty, cheap, begging for abuse, humiliating thing.  for some, it is the way they are wired and fulfilled, and to do/be anything else would be requiring a performance act that causes extreme physical/mental turmoil.
 
there are many valuable, special people in this world...even ones that don't fit into your image of The Way Things Should Be.



sweetsub1957 -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/20/2009 11:14:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dastan

I just discovered that i am uncapable of seeing women submit to men, I just don't know if anyone here has the same problem and if they had a way to tolerate it, as long as it is very light, and within the strictest defined limits of SSC.

¿ Is it something permanetly wrong in me or it can be fixed ?



I think it's just a matter of tolerance of others' kinks.  At first I could not imagine why some men would want to submit to women, but then I got to know some male submissives & found out they are normal, whatever that is.  lol  As a matter of fact, male submissives were the first people into kink that I was ever in contact with.  Now I count D-types and s-types of both genders among my friends.  Try remembering that the submission is consensual & that sometimes the submissive of either gender wants the pain.  I get flogged/spanked/pinched by Sir and I love it.  All I can say is it is SSC, and consensual is part of that.



Andalusite -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/20/2009 7:18:57 PM)

I'm a switch, and am in a M/s relationship with a man I met here on CM almost 4 months ago. I personally do not enjoy humiliation/degradation play, although it isn't a hard limit, so that was something I brought up while we were dating, before I made a commitment to him.

I've done some playfighting scenes at BDSM events before, where several of the people who gathered around and watched seemed very concerned, even though neither of us were getting hurt. I'm pretty strong relative to my size, and have taken martial arts classes, and we were using wrestling mats to pad the takedowns and pins and whatnot. I enjoy a pretty high level of intensity in physical S/M play (to the point of having bruises and welts for a couple of weeks afterward). I don't focus on trying to shock anyone, I just enjoy what we're doing. It's easier for me to trust someone to punch me in the stomach or slap me across the face without doing any harm than to have vanilla sex with them.



Malkinius -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/20/2009 7:39:05 PM)

Greetings Orchid....

quote:

ORIGINAL: GoddessOrchid

The issue comes from a male dominated society that have treated women so poorly. Women are considered for many men as second class and therefore I become concerned that not all men who are dominanting are doing it for the right reason. Domestic violence, murder of women, rape- is at is highest in the world and in the United States. I am sure women who wish to be submissive do it from their heart and I have nothing against a woman doingso, but living in this society where the double standards are clearly stated that men are better than women. And if you are a strong or assertive women you must be broken- it is hard to see a submissive any other than a woman falling into the role that society has conformed for them.

There's alot of submissive women who come from abusive backgrounds- and this is even more concerning for me. Because what is D/s and what is plain ole vanilla gone bad?


While you are right about many women in BDSM coming from abusive backgrounds, the reason for that is not always what you think it is. As for your claim that things are worse now and especially so in the US....you haven't a clue about reality. Things are better now for women, especially in the US than any time in history and just about any where in the world. Start reading and researching outside of feminist propaganda and you will find out that I am right.

Humans have always been almost completely patriarchal in nature even tho many early societies were matrilineal. That is the nature of humans. Men are the dominant sex over all. To try to claim otherwise goes against observed reality. To say there are exceptions to that would be very true.

Be well....

Malkinius



takenbyforce -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/20/2009 7:51:10 PM)

Personally I think that while holding being a dominant or a submissive in the terms of a relationship is a perfectly acceptable choice.  But the idea that one gender (either of the genders) is inherently subservient to the opposite gender, I think, is deplorable.  Just as you get upset when you see a man controlling a woman why not feel the same about a woman controlling a man?  I acknowledge that as many have said this is a male dominated society but the whole "they did it to women for a long time so we get to do it to men" bit is childish and frankly stupid.  It just continues the cycle and does nothing to solve the problem or make any men think better of any women or vice versa.  I also agree with basically what everyone else has said about it being the guys fault if he assumes all women are a certain way just because one is.  Just remember that everything works both ways and I'm sure you'll do fine.



Dastan -> RE: How to Learn to Tolerate Females Dominated by Men ? (7/21/2009 7:46:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

quote:

There, here's the quid of the issue....why someone as valuable and special as you submits ?


because submission is not necessarily a dirty, cheap, begging for abuse, humiliating thing.  for some, it is the way they are wired and fulfilled, and to do/be anything else would be requiring a performance act that causes extreme physical/mental turmoil.
 
there are many valuable, special people in this world...even ones that don't fit into your image of The Way Things Should Be.



It's simple to me, that submission is something different for everyone, but it's just that I don't see much how can females submit to men when we are so flawed essentially, so tainted. It's just that, and here's the fact: I value submission and dominance, takes a different kind of strenght to choose either path. But the problem is that I just feel it odd when i see female subs, I hadn't seen one in my life till this year so I am still itching and getting goosebumps because of it.



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