Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (Full Version)

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rulemylife -> Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 3:07:49 PM)

Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol visitor center


WASHINGTON — A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center.

Lungren's proposal drew only a whimper of opposition last week when the House of Representatives voted 410-8 to approve it. Now, however, Lungren finds himself tussling with a national atheists and agnostics group.

The Wisconsin -based Freedom From Religion Foundation Inc. sued this week to stop the engraving, accusing Lungren of trying to force his religious beliefs on as many as 15 percent of all U.S. adults. That comprises "atheists, agnostics, skeptics and freethinkers, none of whom possess a belief in a god," according to the lawsuit.

"It really is a Judeo-Christian endorsement by our government, and so Lungren is wrong," said Dan Barker of Madison, Wis. , a co-president of the foundation. "Lungren and others are pro-religious, and they want to actually use the machinery of government to promote their particular private religious views. That is unconstitutional, and that's what we're asking the court to decide."





Lorr47 -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 4:15:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol visitor center


WASHINGTON — A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center.

Lungren's proposal drew only a whimper of opposition last week when the House of Representatives voted 410-8 to approve it. Now, however, Lungren finds himself tussling with a national atheists and agnostics group.

The Wisconsin -based Freedom From Religion Foundation Inc. sued this week to stop the engraving, accusing Lungren of trying to force his religious beliefs on as many as 15 percent of all U.S. adults. That comprises "atheists, agnostics, skeptics and freethinkers, none of whom possess a belief in a god," according to the lawsuit.

"It really is a Judeo-Christian endorsement by our government, and so Lungren is wrong," said Dan Barker of Madison, Wis. , a co-president of the foundation. "Lungren and others are pro-religious, and they want to actually use the machinery of government to promote their particular private religious views. That is unconstitutional, and that's what we're asking the court to decide."




Great, another spurious issue to divert our attention from the important issues.  Lets split the difference. If the christian right will pay the bill, write it anywhere they want.  There are numerous statements of fiction littering this country and one more doesn't bother me.




ShoreBound149 -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 4:16:22 PM)

God, that's annoying....




tazzygirl -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 4:38:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol visitor center


WASHINGTON — A California Republican congressman wants to do a little writing on the walls of Washington's newest federal building. If Rep. Dan Lungren gets his way, Congress will spend nearly $100,000 to engrave the words "In God We Trust " and the Pledge of Allegiance in prominent spots at the Capitol Visitor Center.

Lungren's proposal drew only a whimper of opposition last week when the House of Representatives voted 410-8 to approve it. Now, however, Lungren finds himself tussling with a national atheists and agnostics group.

The Wisconsin -based Freedom From Religion Foundation Inc. sued this week to stop the engraving, accusing Lungren of trying to force his religious beliefs on as many as 15 percent of all U.S. adults. That comprises "atheists, agnostics, skeptics and freethinkers, none of whom possess a belief in a god," according to the lawsuit.

"It really is a Judeo-Christian endorsement by our government, and so Lungren is wrong," said Dan Barker of Madison, Wis. , a co-president of the foundation. "Lungren and others are pro-religious, and they want to actually use the machinery of government to promote their particular private religious views. That is unconstitutional, and that's what we're asking the court to decide."




Oddly enough, it doesnt stop any of them from spending cash.




thishereboi -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 8:11:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lorr47

Great, another spurious issue to divert our attention from the important issues.  Lets split the difference. If the christian right will pay the bill, write it anywhere they want.  There are numerous statements of fiction littering this country and one more doesn't bother me.


The House of Representatives voted 410-8 to approve it. Now if you want to blame that on the christian right, you go right ahead, but last time I checked the Democrats had the majority, not the Republicans.




Loki45 -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 8:20:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Oddly enough, it doesnt stop any of them from spending cash.


Considering that it's the only form of currency, they have no choice.

However, that being said, today's transactions are largely done by debit or credit card, which are devoid of that phrase. So perhaps they use those instead of physical money. In which case, your point would be incorrect.




tazzygirl -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 8:42:57 PM)

Thats a huge assumption, Loki




Loki45 -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 8:43:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Thats a huge assumption, Loki


So is the assumption that they are in some way compromising their values by using a currency adopted as the national currency for the last two centuries.




Brain -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 8:44:32 PM)

Good for them. I’m glad they sued. It’s about time people know the truth, which is that, there is no such thing as God and we are wasting our time praying to nothing.

God didn’t create humans. Humans invented the concept and idea of God

Watch
The evolution of God on Bill Moyers show today. You can watch it online.
http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/index-flash.html


This is good too
Documentaries Player
Fly Me To The Moon Full Episode
http://www.cbc.ca/documentaries/docplayer2.html?playlistId=f21067aaabfdece3076458e7e035e69febe7cfe7&id=1008278517





RealSub58 -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 8:45:57 PM)

Why do agnostics or athetists curse using names belonging to 
God?
ie   godammit, jezuschrist ?
But not using names given to Allah or Buddha?




Loki45 -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 8:47:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58
Why do agnostics or athetists curse using names belonging to 
God?
ie   godammit, jezuschrist ?
But not using names given to Allah or Buddha?


Because those names have become part of accepted slang-speech. It's what they hear, so it's what they use. People today no longer believe in the gods of Greek Mythology, yet I've heard someone exclaim once "Merciful Zeus!" Same concept.




Brain -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 8:56:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

Why do agnostics or athetists curse using names belonging to 
God?
ie   godammit, jezuschrist ?
But not using names given to Allah or Buddha?



It’s just a bad habit like smoking. You know it’s wrong and it doesn’t make any sense but people do it anyway. It’s because we get brainwashed when we are children and told lies that there is a God and lies that there is a Santa Clause.

Watch this, George was right, and pardon the expression but God bless him.

George Carlin - Religion is bullshit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNy6ziOyxoA




tazzygirl -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 9:01:58 PM)

a debate on religion is foolish. it serves no purpose, no one changes their minds or even comes to see another's point of view, and it causes upset in most everyone.




Loki45 -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 9:03:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

a debate on religion is foolish. it serves no purpose, no one changes their minds or even comes to see another's point of view, and it causes upset in most everyone.


Only in those with strong feelings about it. What was it Chris Rock said in Dogma....:

"I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't generate. Life becomes stagnant."




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 9:08:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl
Thats a huge assumption, Loki


So is the assumption that they are in some way compromising their values by using a currency adopted as the national currency for the last two centuries.



The currency has been in use for over 2 centuries, but the "In  God We Trust" crap has only been on it since the mid-50s. Right-wing religious wackos railroaded it through during a period in American history when the ideological pendulum happened to be swinging pretty far to the right, and we've been stuck with it ever since.




tazzygirl -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 9:10:02 PM)

very true Loki. i am not one to say Allah doesnt or didnt exist. i would not tell an athiest they have to believe in something. my own religious belifs are not mainstream by any stretch. i do resent others who try and force their beliefs upon me.

when all that mess about saying "Merry Christman" came out, i could not understand the upset. if i say.. Merry Christmas... you can say happy holidays.. happy hanukkah.. whatever. and, you know, i feel honored when someone wishes the happiness of their religious beliefs upon me. it means more than just hearing them repeat what i say. its like they really mean for me to enjoy their religious experience as i have wished them to enjoy mine. someone got a spur up their ass and decided it was an insult. go figure.




ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 9:11:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

a debate on religion is foolish. it serves no purpose, no one changes their minds or even comes to see another's point of view, and it causes upset in most everyone.


Oh, I don't know. I definitely see other people's points of view during our occasional little religious wars, and often assimilate their ideas into my own reasoning on religion. Doesn't change my mind per se, but it does add depth and breadth to my understanding of the issue.




KruelKeyHolders -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/19/2009 11:15:51 PM)

monkey see, monkey do.

what i want to know is why are there so many derogatory names for non-Caucasians... all we have are cracker, honky (ridiculous~where did that come from!)...whitey...? WTF? the white man has fucked up more shit than any other race known on earth...and then applaud ourselves for doing so.....we even come up with holidays for the shit...thanksgiving? good job with the genocide guys. christmas? this one gets earlier and more fucked up every year...easter? come on, what's with the fucking rabbits?
that's all




FirmhandKY -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/20/2009 12:31:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: KruelKeyHolders

monkey see, monkey do.

what i want to know is why are there so many derogatory names for non-Caucasians... all we have are cracker, honky (ridiculous~where did that come from!)...whitey...? WTF? the white man has fucked up more shit than any other race known on earth...and then applaud ourselves for doing so.....we even come up with holidays for the shit...thanksgiving? good job with the genocide guys. christmas? this one gets earlier and more fucked up every year...easter? come on, what's with the fucking rabbits?
that's all



What does any of this rant have to do with the OP, or anything else in the thread so far?

Firm




Brain -> RE: Atheists sue to keep 'In God We Trust' off Capitol Visitor Center (7/20/2009 2:09:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: KruelKeyHolders

monkey see, monkey do.

what i want to know is why are there so many derogatory names for non-Caucasians... all we have are cracker, honky (ridiculous~where did that come from!)...whitey...? WTF? the white man has fucked up more shit than any other race known on earth...and then applaud ourselves for doing so.....we even come up with holidays for the shit...thanksgiving? good job with the genocide guys. christmas? this one gets earlier and more fucked up every year...easter? come on, what's with the fucking rabbits?
that's all




This is a hard question to answer. I think you need to know a lot about sociology and anthropology and culture. The more you know the better to answer this question.

Because some Caucasians, particularly religious ones, think they are superior. Adolf Hitler was a Catholic. And I must say Christianity has done a good public relations job to distance itself from its involvement in the inhumanity of the second world war.

So because Caucasians think they are superior they reinforce this thinking by making fun of others different from them. For example gay people, the Bible tells them homosexuality is bad and because of their faith they possess certitude their behavior is appropriate. So they make fun of gay people and even worse some of them resort to violence.

You said “the white man has fucked up more shit than any other race known on earth...and then applaud ourselves for doing so..…” That’s true but they also make fun of each other. People making fun of the Irish or Irish making fun of the British or Scots or vice versa. I know Greeks and Italian’s make fun of the English from cooking to the way they raise their children.

Christmas, Santa Claus and Easter with the bunny rabbits are a little different because they’ve been influenced by capitalism or consumerism. For instance, if you look into it, the present concept of Santa Claus, a fat man in a red suit giving presents, that’s all about corporations brainwashing us to spend money buying stuff so they can make profits. Santa Clause was a creation of the Coca-Cola Company, at least the modern version of the man in a red suit.

The rabbits have to do with springtime and love is in the air and procreating the human race and all of that stuff. Rabbits because they have many babies and it has to do with humans having sex and having children and the weather getting better in the spring so men and women going out together and having fun, including sex.

From Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honky

Honky is a corruption of hungy or hunky, a term which originated in the stockyards and slaughterhouses of Chicago. The term may derive from "Bohunk" (Bohemian-Hungarian), which was used to refer to central Europeans. Black and Hungarian workers were two of the largest ethnic groups in the Chicago meat industry. Racial and ethnic tension between the two groups led Black workers to begin calling Hungarian workers, and those perceived as Hungarians, hunky, perhaps in retaliation for the racist epithets to which blacks were subject. The corruption 'honky' emerged shortly thereafter

Sorry for the long answer but all this was developed over a long period of time and it was a complicated question, for me anyway.





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