RE: Explain to me online training ?

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WyldHrt -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/29/2009 3:09:14 AM)
quote: I feel that the comparison of "online" to real relationships is insulting. This. I like you, BoiJen, and make a point of reading your posts because they often resonate with me. That said, in this one area I believe that you may be less than objective. From previous threads, I can see where you are coming from, but I confess that I still can't really understand why you feel somehow diminished by those whose relationships aren't, in your eyes, real. They aren't taking anything from you or your relationship, they are just doing what works for them.

Zeknpet -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/29/2009 8:38:08 AM)
As a side note: I have some quite real friends in an MMORPG I play. I moved 2852 miles to live with a girl I'd met in game. I counsel GLBT people with family reconciliation issues trapped in mires of familial exprectations in game, online in places like this site and in realtime face to face. Just because the people I'm talking to may not be standing in front of me it doesn't mean it's "not real" Neither of us is interfacing with artificial intelligence, the responses and exchanges are meaningful and humanist. I have also coached abused women out of dysfunctional BDSM relationships. They were housebound and meeting them face to face was impossible yet education and friendship happened. Humans seeking to improve their social scene often have no transportation, no cash flow, emotional boundaries unset due to lack of exposure, In the MMO I play and in various online fora, I have seen ignorant people learn, bond and assimilate with their society better, enabling them into a better, quite real existence. It is not surprising that a demographic that includes (obviously) more sequestered and socially disconnected people. Online is a perfectly valid tool for learning to mesh with greater society. heck, I've even seen spendthrifts with self destructive emotional impulse buying issues learn to balance their personal finances from trading patters in a game. to put it bluntly: Who the fuck are you to adjudge the manner which other humans learn or interact? Oh, and if it's not real, what the FUCK are you dong here? (abd I bet your profile has preferences etc in hopes of hooking up with an 'imaginary' friend!) just sayin'

TurboJugend -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/29/2009 9:18:14 AM)
People do everything online..banking, have fun, meet people, chat, get irritated, get pissed....but when a relation pops-up...it suddenly is bad. It is like those profiles that say...."no online"...but beeing on a dating website to meet someone is 'not online"? Just let people be happy with a relation....it is theirs..not yours... Like real life relations are all going well...lol not addressed to any one ...

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/29/2009 9:25:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TurboJugend It is like those profiles that say...."no online"...but beeing on a dating website to meet someone is 'not online"? Just let people be happy with a relation....it is theirs..not yours... Gives you a minute to note the hypocracy. Someone has just as much right to not want an online relationship as those who do. Using the internet is not the same to be honest, often it is just a networking tool.

TurboJugend -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/29/2009 9:29:59 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally quote: ORIGINAL: TurboJugend It is like those profiles that say...."no online"...but beeing on a dating website to meet someone is 'not online"? Just let people be happy with a relation....it is theirs..not yours... Gives you a minute to note the hypocracy. Someone has just as much right to not want an online relationship as those who do. Using the internet is not the same to be honest, often it is just a networking tool. where did I mention honest? offline doesn't equal honest either the point I try to make is that people look for a relation online but when others have a relation online it is not good. so meeting online is ok ( is this not a relation?) but when others stretch it in time..it is not ok? It was a example how people judge. I don't care...aslong as they find what they look for. In the end they want to be happy I guess

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/29/2009 9:45:04 AM)
'to be honest' is just a figure of speech. Looking to meet people online does not always imply relationship. I personally do not want an online relationship at the moment, it isn't what I need. Does that mean I shoulnd't use an online site?

TurboJugend -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/29/2009 10:09:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally 'to be honest' is just a figure of speech. Looking to meet people online does not always imply relationship. I personally do not want an online relationship at the moment, it isn't what I need. Does that mean I shoulnd't use an online site? I am talking about people who look for a relation on the frontpage ( an online medium)..and at the same time judge about others having one online. Don't forget the rest of the post..this was just an example I found weird...perhaps I should have left it out....but still weird :P btw I did mention it is my previous post quote: people look for a relation online but when others have a relation online it is not good double moral? ps; I did misread your honost. I suck at reading english when tired. My apology

Falkenstein -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/29/2009 10:28:54 AM)
Woo! OpenmindedSlave really did kick the ant hill! I would like to break a lance for online dominance. I state the obvious when I say that real life beats online anyday, when possible. As a Master, I really dislike the impossibility of seeing the reaction, especially emotional from my slave. The direction is more clumsy, there are a lot of misunderstandings. Paradoxally, the online world is signal poor: I miss the frown, the elated sight, the wide open eyes, the drooling... Having said that, online dominance has its advantages: if I meet online a great gal who lives on another continent what should I do? option one: I go in the batcave, get into my batplane and fly to my fling option two: I starting thinking of smart orders that can be followed without my oversight and discuss them. It is actually quite easy to feel if they will be followed or not. Which leads me to the other pleasure of online BDSM: since there is no direct control, the orders must be subtle, easily performed in a vanilla environment and simultaneously enticing to the sub while meaning some barreer to push. When I translated them in real life, my sub was quite surprised "where did you find that?" But she liked it a lot. HAND Henry

lustycat -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/29/2009 11:41:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zeknpet As a side note: I have some quite real friends in an MMORPG I play. I moved 2852 miles to live with a girl I'd met in game. I counsel GLBT people with family reconciliation issues trapped in mires of familial exprectations in game, online in places like this site and in realtime face to face. Just because the people I'm talking to may not be standing in front of me it doesn't mean it's "not real" Neither of us is interfacing with artificial intelligence, the responses and exchanges are meaningful and humanist. I have also coached abused women out of dysfunctional BDSM relationships. They were housebound and meeting them face to face was impossible yet education and friendship happened. Humans seeking to improve their social scene often have no transportation, no cash flow, emotional boundaries unset due to lack of exposure, In the MMO I play and in various online fora, I have seen ignorant people learn, bond and assimilate with their society better, enabling them into a better, quite real existence. It is not surprising that a demographic that includes (obviously) more sequestered and socially disconnected people. Online is a perfectly valid tool for learning to mesh with greater society. heck, I've even seen spendthrifts with self destructive emotional impulse buying issues learn to balance their personal finances from trading patters in a game. to put it bluntly: Who the fuck are you to adjudge the manner which other humans learn or interact? Oh, and if it's not real, what the FUCK are you dong here? (abd I bet your profile has preferences etc in hopes of hooking up with an 'imaginary' friend!) just sayin' Thank You Zeknpet. i was not allowed to say anything like that. i was beat to death for it. i agree with You 100%. I gave my real life experience with online training and it was beautiful. The whole reason i gave that example was to show that it is real, it is true, and it can happen IF BOTH parties involved allow it to be. i was a better person after i met my Master. It has made me who i am today. MOST of my slave training was done with Him thousands of miles away from me. rose

BoiJen -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/30/2009 4:46:43 AM)
If one can only have a functional relationship online and not in the actual presence of their partner, there's a problem...a major one. That's a dysfunctional relationship at it's highest. You're never going to get me to believe that online counseling will provide the same theraputic assistance as a session in person. And I never said exchanges aren't "real" I said continuous "intimate partner" relationships based with the medium of the internet aren't real and the belief that they are as solid and fundamental as a "real time" intimate partner relationship is just batshit crazy. I pointed out several studies that highlighted the growing dysfunction of society as a whole in relation to the internet medium for communication, recreation, and intimacy. The fact that individuals find more validation for continuing anti-social, unhealthy behavior patterns on the internet, rather than actual socializing with people because that's where accountability really begins to happen, really hurts the argument as well. The internet does not aid those with social dysfunction to do anything other than hunker down in their dysfunction. My experience tells me that the more time a socially damaged individual spends online the more time they'll continue to spend online and the less time they will spend with family and friends in the real world; these are all signs of growing social dysfunction and, specifically, anxiety. Feeding that idea that it's "ok" ain't kosher with me. As for who I am, because I assume that's where the bandwagon starts, try reading a profile before making a general statement like "abd I bet your profile has preferences etc in hopes of hooking up with an 'imaginary' friend!". I've earned my Leather and the respect of my friends and the Owner of this boi, and those things couldn't have been done just sitting behind a screen and typing away. The reason that lustycat got called out for personal attacks is because that little tid bit is well known here and in the real world. In Leather, MsKitty's boi, Jen PS Why am I here? To exchange ideas.

tazzygirl -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/30/2009 5:13:00 AM)
thank you for your "judgement" congrats on all you have earned. how do you know lustycat isnt just as respected in her circles? a bit judgemental there, boi, dont you think? oh, and as far as your studies, do you have the password to read them?

BoiJen -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/30/2009 5:21:41 AM)
I don't have a password to read them but you can use EBSCOHost at any local library or college campus to access the studies at hand, as I stated when mentioning the studies. You also might be able to use Google Scholar, though I don't know how effective it will be. I didn't say anywhere that anyone else hadn't earned anything. I stated what I had earned. Yes, I am judgmental. If you don't like it or find it offensive, then don't read my posts. I've found that my being judgmental has kept people of lower quality character and integrity out of my life; being judgmental has been a useful tool for me. In Leather, boi

LillyoftheVally -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/30/2009 5:23:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BoiJen If one can only have a functional relationship online and not in the actual presence of their partner, there's a problem...a major one. That's a dysfunctional relationship at it's highest. Who said only? And to be honest Jen we all know that many people consider all our relationships to be dysfunctional, you you think them right? quote: You're never going to get me to believe that online counseling will provide the same theraputic assistance as a session in person. And I never said exchanges aren't "real" I said continuous "intimate partner" relationships based with the medium of the internet aren't real and the belief that they are as solid and fundamental as a "real time" intimate partner relationship is just batshit crazy. As I mentioned before does that mean people with sensory loss or physical diasbility can't have 'intimate' relationships by your definition? Does it have to involve physical sensation. quote: I pointed out several studies that highlighted the growing dysfunction of society as a whole in relation to the internet medium for communication, recreation, and intimacy. And I can find several studies that highlight that homosexual relationships are a dysfunction, as are masochists. A study can always be refuted! quote: The fact that individuals find more validation for continuing anti-social, unhealthy behavior patterns on the internet, rather than actual socializing with people because that's where accountability really begins to happen, really hurts the argument as well. And the fact that every time this discussion comes up you get very passionate and frustrated about people on the internet seems to me to suggest equally anti-socail unhealthy behaviour. If you frown on it so much then why get involved in any of it at all? Also having a relationship online does not mean that the people don't socialise, I am sure that there are a few people for whom that is the case but to state that it is the majority is very very ignorant. quote: The internet does not aid those with social dysfunction to do anything other than hunker down in their dysfunction. And again the term dysfunction, what defines dysfunction? Something that you don't do or something that goes against the norm. Functionalism comes from the idea that society needs to work together as a society towards a common goal, that behaviours are normalized in a functional way, therefore Jen the majority of what 'we' do is considered dysfunctional. quote: My experience tells me that the more time a socially damaged individual spends online the more time they'll continue to spend online and the less time they will spend with family and friends in the real world; And mine doesn't, who is right?

tazzygirl -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/30/2009 5:30:48 AM)
you offer studies for proof that no one can read unless they are college students. not all of us are in college. some of us have actually been finished with college for many years. my experiences are based on life. my degrees, family and friends are my "honors" i tend to believe i am rather intelligent and can put two and two together and come up with four. those studies you quoted were done and used by the powers that be to make internet access to porn more difficult. thats not an issue for me. i prefer the real thing to videos. however, the motives beind such studies makes me wonder. and leads me to suspect that, because they were done on college students (per one of the links) and were done at a time when the focus was on porn sites and the effects they had on corportate america (anyone watching porn at work has got to be nuts), then i would say that most of what i would find within those studies would be along those lines.... sex. not based upon the actual relationships people may or may not have with each other. so, yes, i do find you extremely judgemental, which i find has little place within this lifestyle. but, hey, thats just my opinion, and it doesnt count for much. and i can tolerate a 23 year old girl being so fond of demeaning others she may not know, because i have been there.. done that.. and realized long ago the futility of concrete thinking when it comes to emotions.

stella41b -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/30/2009 7:59:55 AM)
You know one thing I've always wondered about in these 'online vs. real time' debates is whether the arguments of those who feel that online relationships aren't real or valid or that the people conducting them are 'dysfunctional' - does this extend to their own "online" attempts at psychology, psychiatry, psychoanalysis etc? I'm curious as to how they manage to arrive at their conclusions so quickly and decisively without any real time knowledge of the people they claim are dysfunctional and with zero knowledge of the other person in the relationship. Even so when clinically trained psychologists, therapists and counsellors are usually not willing to form an opinion until there's been at least one appointment, i.e. meeting in real time and an indepth conversation taking place. What is the basis here? Postings on a message board? What is written in a profile? Their own observations of other people? To me you cannot draw any sort of conclusion on the validity of any relationship without intimate knowledge of both people involved and how they relate to each other. I don't think you can overlook the fact that not only dysfunctional relationships exists in real time, but also that many dysfunctional people are able to create and maintain successful relationships. Ever heard of the word 'family'? The validity of any relationship has far more to do with the two people involved and how they relate to each other than the manner in which the relationship is conducted. If you don't believe me why not try posting on a business forum that online relationships aren't as valid as those in real time and see what people say there.

ranja -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/30/2009 8:03:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist quote: ORIGINAL: ranja But Sir ResidentSadist the on-line master could surely suggest that his subject empties out a kitchen cupboard (dressed appropriately of course) and when said cupboard is empty and scrubbed clean she might fold herself inside it for a set period of time using an egg timer... would she not learn the same things as being locked in a cage by you? Would you still not have the power for having her do as you suggest/order... would you not be entertained by reading her detailed report after she completed her task? Is the idea of submitting or Dominating not always only in the mind? If you lock a real person in a real cage and she starts saying her 'safeword' would you not have to let her out? who is the boss then? If only the prisons in the US had safewords... You must think the slave is in control and certainly are not familiar with me or post history. Let her out.... LMAO. Safeword... LMAO I am not a "service top". . . . but that is just me. I am sure many "slaves" rule their master's roost. Sir, i tried the links to the journals of your slaves about the caging as i think caging and imprisonment are rather hot... but i could not open any pages unfortunately... so am indeed considering my own kitchen cupboard for first hand experience now... I do not care much for safewords either but when i get totally bored and start suffering cramps i will get out... and if my Husband has locked it from the outside and i sound convincing enough in my pleading for release i suppose He will know when it has gone beyond a joke and will set me free... I am glad prisoners do not have safewords although some do not even need any as some prisons are ... open... do prisons like that exist in the US aswell? over here some criminals can just walk out whenever they please really... the guards rely on mental bondage mainly it seems. I believe in the US they also use gass to subdue any prison unrest... there is none of that here either... prisoners are pretty much allowed whatever they want so there is no need for them to make any riot. I do not assume anything about your control or your slaves control Sir, but i do believe that i as a submissive am quite often in control really... even if i give all control to my Husband... i still know that i am safe... i still know that if i want all my control back that He will give it back to me... if i beg and squirm enough maybe... i love this game but i do not very well understand who has the real power and whether that matters at all really... at least i am not bothered as long as we all have fun (crying is included in that) You are correct that i do not know anything about you...i have only seen a few of your postings, i like your profile and you look a bit like my Husband. So am i correct in assuming now that you would not let her out? You would keep her captive against her will? Surely you would have to then keep her captive forever just in-case she would take you to court for false imprisonment... or could you brainwash her not to do that... or would it be easier then to let her starve to death in her cage and be rid of the problem? Or would you make sure she would never want to be released by dancing to her tune and give her whatever she could possibly want in her little cage? I am pleased i made you laugh...but i am confused at your answer i do not think my Husband considers himself a service top either... but i am fairly sure he would let me out of the cage eventually though... or maybe i would like it so much in my little cage that i would not want to come out... am i really kept imprisoned then? If i was ordered to sit in my kitchen cupboard and masturbate by an online Dom... and i followed that order ... i wonder what kinda chemicals would be produced in my brain. I wonder how my Husband would feel if i took up residence in my kitchen cupboard... how long before He would order my ass back into His bed and how different the chemicals would be.

LaTigresse -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/30/2009 8:09:19 AM)
Using fast reply..... After a quick read through, playing catch up after spending 14 hours driving yesterday... I have to say that I personally, do not care how anyone defines their online time or their relationships. However, I am a bloody selfish bitch and my axe to grind on the whole subject is when people make assumptions about their past and current interests that affect me and MY interests. As an example.......Someone online contacts me from, oh say NYC and say "I am a slave, I have served for 4 years. I've read your profile, your forum posts and I am interested in getting to know you." Her profile says she is willing to relocate.....cool. We communicate more, discuss interests and experiences both BDSM and not, I spend my precious time getting to know this person via emails, IM's, phone......then things start heading south. Come to find out after hours wasted that she A.) has never really served, just played it online and B.) never really intended to do anything more than serve online. Something I am very specific about in initial contact. Or C.) Freaks out that I actually want her to..........gasp.........serve! if indeed she does want to really meet in person. "OMG you really want to DO those things?!?!" Using the internet as a tool to meet and get to know people is a great thing. I have met some of the most wonderful human beings this way. But regarding relationships other than i-net aqaintances, if a person is deceitful, or assumes that the other person shares their "internet only" interests just pisses me right off. I got burned several times early on, I learned my lesson. I will not, cannot, get excited or attached to anyone via the net. If someone wants me to take them seriously AT ALL they are going to have to get their ass to Iowa and make the effort. Otherwise I will just consider them another RPG player. And I am not into RPG.

Andalusite -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/30/2009 8:18:37 AM)
I think you can discover some useful things about each other, and even possibly start to develop the emotional connections involved in D/s and M/s, but you can't learn to do S/M or bondage online any more than you can learn martial arts or swordfighting or magic by playing WOW or similar games online. You can discuss fantasies and previous experiences, but physical "how to use x" and "what does y feel like" just are impossible to express verbally or by typing.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/30/2009 8:20:17 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zeknpet In the MMO I play and in various online fora, I have seen ignorant people learn, bond and assimilate with their society better, enabling them into a better, quite real existence. It is not surprising that a demographic that includes (obviously) more sequestered and socially disconnected people. Online is a perfectly valid tool for learning to mesh with greater society. heck, I've even seen spendthrifts with self destructive emotional impulse buying issues learn to balance their personal finances from trading patters in a game. Your own post contradicts the "who the fuck" position I didn't bother to quote. By your own admission, online relationships are a step below "learning to mesh" with society. According to your own words, the people in them are less socially capable. I agree. People use the internet for different reasons. As a direct result of my participation in this forum, I have met close to 50 people in real life, and at least half of them have been kinky women who wanted to date me. You seem to think that everyone who posts on a forum is like you: posing for strangers that he will never meet. Frankly, your willingness to sling profanity, and lustycat's style of blowing everything out of proportion, demonstrate that at least the two of you are not well socialized, and I am not surprised that you consider online to be so much like real life. You might gain better control over your emotions if you unplugged for a few weeks.

tazzygirl -> RE: Explain to me online training ? (7/30/2009 8:23:10 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse Using fast reply..... After a quick read through, playing catch up after spending 14 hours driving yesterday... I have to say that I personally, do not care how anyone defines their online time or their relationships. However, I am a bloody selfish bitch and my axe to grind on the whole subject is when people make assumptions about their past and current interests that affect me and MY interests. As an example.......Someone online contacts me from, oh say NYC and say "I am a slave, I have served for 4 years. I've read your profile, your forum posts and I am interested in getting to know you." Her profile says she is willing to relocate.....cool. We communicate more, discuss interests and experiences both BDSM and not, I spend my precious time getting to know this person via emails, IM's, phone......then things start heading south. Come to find out after hours wasted that she A.) has never really served, just played it online and B.) never really intended to do anything more than serve online. Something I am very specific about in initial contact. Or C.) Freaks out that I actually want her to..........gasp.........serve! if indeed she does want to really meet in person. "OMG you really want to DO those things?!?!" Using the internet as a tool to meet and get to know people is a great thing. I have met some of the most wonderful human beings this way. But regarding relationships other than i-net aqaintances, if a person is deceitful, or assumes that the other person shares their "internet only" interests just pisses me right off. I got burned several times early on, I learned my lesson. I will not, cannot, get excited or attached to anyone via the net. If someone wants me to take them seriously AT ALL they are going to have to get their ass to Iowa and make the effort. Otherwise I will just consider them another RPG player. And I am not into RPG. hi LT i know your's was a fast reply, but, i would like to respond. i agree, there are many players, and the internet makes it easier... sadly. i have met people off line who attempted to do the same thing. they state they want a relationship, and you only get played. it seems to be an on going problem no matter what venue you meet in. im sure many will say they have been burnt on line. many have been hurnt off line. im sure the ability to scam someone off line is harder than on line. i dont talk to people on line with the thought of relationships. the last time, it took 6 years. Master and i met within a year. i moved in 2 months later. but i cannot discount others for using this medium to explore the potentials. exploration is the key.

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