RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come?

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 1:28:26 PM)
Loki, you keep bringing this up. A link would be helpful. Can you not see that they caused their own problems?

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 1:30:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Loki, you keep bringing this up. A link would be helpful. Can you not see that they caused their own problems? Yes I can see that very clearly. I can also see your sexist stance that it was their 'testosterone' that caused it, somehow suggesting that women do not have similar troubles.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 1:32:20 PM)
Two men bucking heads. Its evident in their reports and interviews. Think women cant toss around testosterone as well?

slvemike4u -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 1:38:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy Efforts should be aimed wherever there is statistical evidence that its appropriate. that could be black males, white males, asian females..whatever. Turning it into a race issue is nonsense. It is an issue no matter who is targeted. It is legally discrimination and not permitted under the law. It is a race issue because blacks, Hispanics, and lately Muslims are often unduly targeted. quote: Presumption of innocence is within a courtroom, not in investigating a crime or preventing one. Presumption of innocence is a specific legal doctrine in the courtroom but it is also a general legal theory dating back centuries. Without presumption of innocence there would be no need for requiring probable cause. quote: Yes, "probable cause" has an additional hurdle..defending your investigation from "profiling" charges. That hurdle shouldnt exist. Maybe that should be rephrased to say profiling shouldn't exist, then no need for profiling charges. That all being said, I don't believe this was a case a of profiling. Gates overreacted. All "profiling" should be legal. It isnt discrmination, its intelligent allocation of resources. Something being illegal doesnt mean it isnt justifiable. Profiling is no more heinous than rating auto insurance by zip code or health insurance by smoking status. This is ,to clarify ,the inspiration for the preceding post....it speaks for itself....but just in caseI'm not being clear...I can move...and recieve better insurance rates...I can quit smoking and reduce the cost of health benifits(if I am one of those lucky enough in this great country of ours to have health insurance)....what I can not do is change my ethnic background. Spend most of your time beating the drum of personal choices and responsibility.....than post the above.....priceless!

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 1:41:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Two men bucking heads. Its evident in their reports and interviews. Think women cant toss around testosterone as well? Irrelevant backpeddal. You know what you were trying to say. Suppose this were a story about two women and someone made the comment "geee.....sounds like some chick is pms'ing.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 1:43:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u quote: ORIGINAL:OrionTheWolf Actually the investigation starts with reasonable suspicion, which the officer had. There is a distinct difference between resasonable suspicion and probable cause. There are several good sites that explain the differences, and how they effect police procedure. not true here either, If responding to a possible burglary, forced entry or not, even a simple unlocked door, yes, as an officer they will and have the right to search the home to ensure no burglars are inside, which even you would want them to do if it were your home............. Sorry not worth my time to research the case law again. Glad you are on the sidelines making those calls. If you look you should be able to find a Nevada, two Florida and a Missouri case that shows that the call by itself does not constitute probable cause. See now aren't you glad you are retired now. Hell even Terry stops have been challenged and are more strict.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 1:46:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Its not race... its testosterone!!!!! So was it 'testosterone' when the black congresswoman threw a similar fit when she was accosted by a captial hill security officer because she tried to side-step the security check point? Backpeddal? Nice try. Breaking the Law is not the same. She went around the check point, according to your post. Again, you have supplied no link, so all i can go on is what you say. Now, i know testosterone. I can smell it when its brewing, i can see it in the flash of a man's eye. I grew up with four brothers, on military bases. If you have an issue with it, its your issue. I see two men whose ego's were bruised, both ended up doing wrong things. BUT its certainly not a case of rasicm on the Cop's part.

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 1:51:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Backpeddal? Nice try. Breaking the Law is not the same. She went around the check point, according to your post. Again, you have supplied no link, so all i can go on is what you say. Now, i know testosterone. I can smell it when its brewing, i can see it in the flash of a man's eye. I grew up with four brothers, on military bases. If you have an issue with it, its your issue. I see two men whose ego's were bruised, both ended up doing wrong things. BUT its certainly not a case of rasicm on the Cop's part. Nice way to dodge the question and perpetuate sexism. Good job.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 1:51:30 PM)
Democratic party Congressman Cynthia McKinney http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/30/AR2006033000090.html

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 1:53:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Democratic party Congressman Cynthia McKinney http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/30/AR2006033000090.html Thanks, Orion. Apparently she doesn't watch the news and refuses to respond "without a link" when her obvious sexism is called into question.

Brain -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 1:56:47 PM)
You might find this interesting reading, Dear Mr. President As I was driving home from taking my three year old son to school this morning I overheard a conversation on the radio about a Harvard professor being arrested for breaking into his own home. There was a slight debate as to whether or not this was a form of racial profiling because Professor Gates happened to be a black man. In disgust I turned the volume down but a few moments later something made me turn it back up. That something was your voice and a particular description of the police force that I found to be quite shocking! I thought for a moment that perhaps I had heard wrong but lucky for me several radio stations were replaying your comments on the incident and so it was confirmed. You stated "the Cambridge police acted stupidly in arresting somebody" and went on to mention "the long history within this country of African American and Latinos being stopped by law enforcement officers disproportionately...." I am the wife of a police officer and have worked as a law enforcement dispatcher for the past three years. Needless to say my blood was boiling and as a matter of fact it still is. Because ……… http://www.americanthinker.com/2009/07/dear_mr_president.html

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:00:55 PM)
Thank you Master Orion, i do recall this incident. Loki, this is hardly even in the same ballpark. no wonder why you didnt wish to show it to me. Huge difference between being out in public creating a scene and trying to get past Capital Hill Security. I thought her complaint the first time was rather silly and beneath her. This time, she had the decency to appologize. Gates never hit anyone, nor was he hit. Cynthia believed she should be afford special treatment. She was shown the error of her ways.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:02:31 PM)
LOL.. my obvious sexism. Women can be catty as hell... when im pms'ing, as i have stated on other threads, i can be a royal bitch. The only man i see sobbing over sexism because i said it was testosterone driven is you... sorta makes me wonder....................

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:04:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Loki, this is hardly even in the same ballpark. no wonder why you didnt wish to show it to me. Huge difference between being out in public creating a scene and trying to get past Capital Hill Security. I thought her complaint the first time was rather silly and beneath her. This time, she had the decency to appologize. Gates never hit anyone, nor was he hit. Cynthia believed she should be afford special treatment. She was shown the error of her ways. Let me try and explain this to you as clearly as I can. I know the two incidents are unrelated and 'not in the same ballpark' sweetie. That's not the point. The point is, you're sexist, and I'm simply calling you out on it. Again I ask, in the case of the black congress WOMAN, would you sit there and say "Geee, some chick is sure PMSing." I doubt that would be the case. Yet in the case in this thread, you seem awfully quick to blame it on the men's testosterone, somehow insinuating that women would not be prone to such outbursts. And as for my "not wanting to show you"...that's laughable. You JUST confessed in this post that you "recall' this incident (so my showing a link was wholely un-neccessary). Yet you refused to respond to my very simple question because you knew it would highlight your sexism. Hey, I'm not judging. Be sexist if you want to, just be honest about it.

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:05:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl LOL.. my obvious sexism. Women can be catty as hell... when im pms'ing, as i have stated on other threads, i can be a royal bitch. The only man i see sobbing over sexism because i said it was testosterone driven is you... sorta makes me wonder.................... Oh now I'm sobbing, hmmm? I'll remember that the next time some female responds 'hurt' in a thread I'm participating in because she assumes I'm being rude or sexist towards her.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:08:10 PM)
She stepped to a man like a man, trying to use brute force to get her way. Thats testosterone driven in my book. Step up to a man like a man and expect to be treated like a man.

ColonelKurtz -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:11:37 PM)
Now now children! Let's get back to the topic thread shall we? Or I'm gonna call the police!

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:12:28 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ColonelKurtz Now now children! Let's get back to the topic thread shall we? Or I'm gonna call the police! Yeah we might as well. She's just not 'getting it' anyway. Anything further would clearly be a waste of my time.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:12:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ColonelKurtz Now now children! Let's get back to the topic thread shall we? Or I'm gonna call the police! Fuck them. We live here, damn it!

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:13:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Loki, this is hardly even in the same ballpark. no wonder why you didnt wish to show it to me. Huge difference between being out in public creating a scene and trying to get past Capital Hill Security. I thought her complaint the first time was rather silly and beneath her. This time, she had the decency to appologize. Gates never hit anyone, nor was he hit. Cynthia believed she should be afford special treatment. She was shown the error of her ways. Let me try and explain this to you as clearly as I can. I know the two incidents are unrelated and 'not in the same ballpark' sweetie. That's not the point. The point is, you're sexist, and I'm simply calling you out on it. Again I ask, in the case of the black congress WOMAN, would you sit there and say "Geee, some chick is sure PMSing." I doubt that would be the case. Yet in the case in this thread, you seem awfully quick to blame it on the men's testosterone, somehow insinuating that women would not be prone to such outbursts. And as for my "not wanting to show you"...that's laughable. You JUST confessed in this post that you "recall' this incident (so my showing a link was wholely un-neccessary). Yet you refused to respond to my very simple question because you knew it would highlight your sexism. Hey, I'm not judging. Be sexist if you want to, just be honest about it. i recalled the incident after reading Master Orion's link. thats how much thought i gave that woman at the time, and even less now. You can see me any way you wish, wont change my world, or my opinions. Why you would get so upset over what everyone else sees as obvious is the strange part in this. the comments of.. Cooler heads... all over the news should have given you a clue.

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