RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (Full Version)

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Lorr47 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 7:09:16 PM)

quote:

i would suggest a pig roast and a few kegs of beer!


Naw, I will not say it.




tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 7:12:20 PM)

Hey, im from the south, we have pig roasts. guess some from up northern way would call it pulled pork? Anyways, its like a huge bbq... everyone gathers, friends and family, and its a goOd time to hash out old misunderstandings and everyone gets a fresh start... unless the guns come out.

i so need to go to bed... LOL




tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 7:13:37 PM)

whoa! did i ever have a severe blonde.. hour.

let me rephrase that... pork roast.. is that any better?




ColonelKurtz -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 4:21:36 AM)

So have you guys kissed and made up now??




Lorr47 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 8:04:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: ColonelKurtz

So have you guys kissed and made up now??


I imagine her as cute as a button and smart too.  So I guess we have made up.  Alas, we have not kissed.




tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 8:05:44 AM)

~blows a kiss and grins




willbeurdaddy -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 11:26:47 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

When challenged at a Supreme Court level it is pretty clear cut. Now when police want to over step their authority, and local judges uphold them, that is not clear cut. This is why if you really want to press your rights, you usually need to go further up the ladder where there is less political pandering.



It is clear cut at the SCOTUS level with regard to warrants. You've posted nothing that Ive seen where SCOTUS ruled on anything remotely like a crime in progress.




rulemylife -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 12:34:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

When challenged at a Supreme Court level it is pretty clear cut. Now when police want to over step their authority, and local judges uphold them, that is not clear cut. This is why if you really want to press your rights, you usually need to go further up the ladder where there is less political pandering.



It is clear cut at the SCOTUS level with regard to warrants. You've posted nothing that Ive seen where SCOTUS ruled on anything remotely like a crime in progress.


The following case was based on a 911 call, just as the Gates controversy and People v. Shehady that you cited earlier.


Florida v. J. L., U.S. Supreme Court Case Summary & Oral Argument

Facts of the Case:

On October 13, 1995 Miami-Dade police received an anonymous tip that a black male wearing a plaid shirt was standing near a bus stop carrying a gun. The two officers who responded found three black males, one of which, J.L., a 15-year-old, was wearing a plaid shirt. After frisking him, the officers did find a firearm.

J.L. was charged with carrying a concealed weapon without a license. At trial, he moved to suppress the gun as evidence, arguing that the frisking performed by the officers was illegal under the Fourth Amendment. The trial court granted the motion, but was reversed by the immediate appellate court. The Florida Supreme Court overruled the appellate court and suppressed the evidence.


Question:

Did searching J.L. solely on the basis of the anonymous tip received by the Miami-Dade police violate his Fourth Amendment rights against unreasonable search and seizure?

Conclusion:

Yes. In a unanimous opinion authored by Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg, the Court concluded that J.L. the anonymous tip did not meet the minimum requirements to perform a warrantless search.

Justice Ginsburg, drawing from the Court's logic in Terry v. Ohio and Adams v. Williams, indicated that an anonymous tip must posses a moderate level of reliability, including "predictive information" that offers police a "means to test the informant's knowledge or credibility."






kdsub -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 1:09:10 PM)

But if the police had seen the man put his weapon in his pocket there would have been no problem... and with the Gates Case the police saw two men forcing the front door... Makes all the difference in the world.

You guys are trying to make something that was not there... and no court would listen to such nonsense... you watch too much TV I think.

Butch




rulemylife -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 1:38:38 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But if the police had seen the man put his weapon in his pocket there would have been no problem... and with the Gates Case the police saw two men forcing the front door... Makes all the difference in the world.

You guys are trying to make something that was not there... and no court would listen to such nonsense... you watch too much TV I think.

Butch



No, the police did not.

He was already inside the house when the police arrived.

The forcing of the front door was the 911 caller's report.




kdsub -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 2:01:29 PM)

Yes and they saw two men forcing open the door... they had no way of knowing why




rulemylife -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 2:18:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

Yes and they saw two men forcing open the door... they had no way of knowing why


If  by "they" you mean the 911 caller yes they should have called.

And yes, as I stated previously I think Gates was in the wrong and provoked the situation.

But legally I don't believe the police had the authority some have said they do in response to a 911 call.






OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 2:26:50 PM)

And for those of us that do not watch TV? Maybe we are pulling from research and real life experience?


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

But if the police had seen the man put his weapon in his pocket there would have been no problem... and with the Gates Case the police saw two men forcing the front door... Makes all the difference in the world.

You guys are trying to make something that was not there... and no court would listen to such nonsense... you watch too much TV I think.

Butch





OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 2:28:15 PM)

That is one of the Florida one's RML. There is another that is specifically about a 911 call, and the search of a vehicle from Florida and the search of just a vehicle was ruled as illegal.




kdsub -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 2:31:14 PM)

No... "THEY" meaning the responding police officers saw them forcing the front door...unless that account proves to be wrong

Butch




rulemylife -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 3:16:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

No... "THEY" meaning the responding police officers saw them forcing the front door...unless that account proves to be wrong

Butch


I'm not sure what you are reading KD but everything I have read said Gates was in the house when the police arrived. 

Search it, the links are plentiful.




rulemylife -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 3:18:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf

That is one of the Florida one's RML. There is another that is specifically about a 911 call, and the search of a vehicle from Florida and the search of just a vehicle was ruled as illegal.


This one was specifically about a 911 call also.

This is the full text:

FLORIDA v. J. L. 529 U.S. 266 -- US Supreme Court









OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/26/2009 3:27:26 PM)

That is one I missed. Thanks for that link! I did not save the link, but the one I saw was a rejection of an appeal. The grounds for rejection was that the defendent had to first show the attorney had handled the case improperly, but the justices did note that the grounds of probable cause based upon a 911 call would be inadequate to perform a search, and thus making the illegal weapon found from that search fruits from the poisonous tree. It also made references to reasonable suspicion and probable cause, giving at least their views on the differences and how they would apply.





thishereboi -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 5:23:54 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Hey, im from the south, we have pig roasts. guess some from up northern way would call it pulled pork? Anyways, its like a huge bbq... everyone gathers, friends and family, and its a goOd time to hash out old misunderstandings and everyone gets a fresh start... unless the guns come out.

i so need to go to bed... LOL


I'm from Michigan and we have pig roasts here.




DomKen -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 12:12:34 PM)

Well the 911 call and the radio traffic between the officer and the dispatcher have been released.

Seems the officer lied in his report several times and Gates is heard in the background not yelling but is heard asking for the officers idnetifying information.

http://www.boston.com/




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