RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come?

RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (Full Version)

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tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:14:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: ORIGINAL: ColonelKurtz Now now children! Let's get back to the topic thread shall we? Or I'm gonna call the police! Yeah we might as well. She's just not 'getting it' anyway. Anything further would clearly be a waste of my time. You cant explain what isnt true. Better luck next time.

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:17:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl You cant explain what isnt true. Better luck next time. Oh it's very true. You're just (for whatever reason) unable to see it. Shrugs

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:23:24 PM)
Of course she is a sexist, as am I, based upon the criteria presented. She is a female slave, and when she sees two Men butt heads she will of course view it from her role first. I believe in Patriarchy, and view it from there. Nothing wrong with that though, so why are you even bringing it up?

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:33:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Why you would get so upset over what everyone else sees as obvious is the strange part in this. I'll refer back to this comment the next time someone cries foul over a remark I make that they take as sexist. Thanks for providing me not only with an example, but my justification. I appreciate it.

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 2:34:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Of course she is a sexist, as am I, based upon the criteria presented. She is a female slave, and when she sees two Men butt heads she will of course view it from her role first. I believe in Patriarchy, and view it from there. Nothing wrong with that though, so why are you even bringing it up? I bring it up because my beliefs and my views often have me labeled as sexist. So, I take the opportunity whenever possible to point out hypocrisy in others' sexist views.

slutslave4u -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 3:33:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ColonelKurtz sigh I'm getting confused now because all of the apparent eye witnesses on this thread appear to be changing the alledged facts and circumstances to me. Firstly, was he or was he not on the grounds of his own property? Either within the house itself or on the porch? And secondly, were the profanities aggrivated as such? He was arrested while outside the home, whether on the property or in the street, once outside it is "the public" does not matter if it is his property. He was outside causing the disturbance.

slutslave4u -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 3:44:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gwynvyd quote: ORIGINAL: ColonelKurtz sigh I'm getting confused now because all of the apparent eye witnesses on this thread appear to be changing the alledged facts and circumstances to me. Firstly, was he or was he not on the grounds of his own property? Either within the house itself or on the porch? And secondly, were the profanities aggrivated as such? Here are the 2 police reports. Not sure what I think about them. I know they are supposed to be accurate... but I have seen some folks cover their asses too. Even if he was loud and yelling, in his own residance he should not have been arrested. The cardinal rule to not be hassled by the cops is to cooperate with them, dont get nasty, and don't be black. He failed in all three cases. Why the officer called the university police beats the hell out of me. That part makes no sense. Gwyn He was outside on his porch I believe, out in the "public", you would have to go look at their law/ordinances, regardless he was creating a disturbance outside in the public (once he stepped out that door he was and became out in the public), he was warned and asked several times to calm down, he refused. Black had nothing to do with it, until Gates pushed the race issue himself. I would have to guess as to why the officer called the University police....in being once Gates stated that he is a professor at the school, I would have to say with him still refusing to produce any ID, and Crowley not knowing Gates, the University police may have beenc alled to see if they themselves can ID Gates as the legal resident of the home (perhaps, again a guess).

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 3:51:00 PM)
I must have missed the hypocricy. Are you trying to equate sexist and racist? If so, the are two completely different things. There may be some vague similarities, but that does not make any kind of hypocricy. Prove your case by: 1) Provide a general definition of hypocricy 2) Make your claim 3) Support your claim with in context comments Then I might see it. If not, then it is just a unsupported accusation to deflect from another point. quote: ORIGINAL: Loki45 quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf Of course she is a sexist, as am I, based upon the criteria presented. She is a female slave, and when she sees two Men butt heads she will of course view it from her role first. I believe in Patriarchy, and view it from there. Nothing wrong with that though, so why are you even bringing it up? I bring it up because my beliefs and my views often have me labeled as sexist. So, I take the opportunity whenever possible to point out hypocrisy in others' sexist views.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 3:52:58 PM)
Uh private property is private. It may be in public view, but it is not public. Since you are familiar with Georgia, look into the noise ordinance laws and that they are limited usually by time of day. For it to be disturbing the public it needs to be off private property. quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u He was arrested while outside the home, whether on the property or in the street, once outside it is "the public" does not matter if it is his property. He was outside causing the disturbance.

Lorr47 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 3:53:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u quote: ORIGINAL: ColonelKurtz sigh I'm getting confused now because all of the apparent eye witnesses on this thread appear to be changing the alledged facts and circumstances to me. Firstly, was he or was he not on the grounds of his own property? Either within the house itself or on the porch? And secondly, were the profanities aggrivated as such? He was arrested while outside the home, whether on the property or in the street, once outside it is "the public" does not matter if it is his property. He was outside causing the disturbance. Your saying that the police asking Gates out onto his porch caused his statements to be made in "a place open to the public?" I suppose you could argue that since his porch can be seen from the street it might be open to the public, sort of. Nah. One juror who believes that a man's home is his castle will give you a hung jury. Is his porch a "place open to the public?" I think he would disagree with you that anyone can come on his porch. Then the fun begins.

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 3:53:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf I must have missed the hypocricy. Are you trying to equate sexist and racist? If so, the are two completely different things. There may be some vague similarities, but that does not make any kind of hypocricy. Prove your case by: 1) Provide a general definition of hypocricy 2) Make your claim 3) Support your claim with in context comments Then I might see it. If not, then it is just a unsupported accusation to deflect from another point. That's ok, Orion. It wasn't directed at you.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 5:09:11 PM)
Here is something for you to consider Loki. I dont know what you are speaking about, being accused of sexism. It certainly wasnt by me. Now, what Master Orion said is true. I do view men differently than i do women. i do believe some men are better than i am, some are better than most men i know. i tend to view most ( dont read that as all) women are subservient to men. i also believe some women can do things better than some men, and that some men can do things better than some women. Now, for your pondering quote: "From what we can tell now, testosterone is generated to prepare the body to respond to competition and/or challenges to one's status," McAndrew observes. "Any stimulus or event which signals either of these things can trigger an increase in testosterone levels." http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/76411.php Testosterone, best known as the male sex hormone, affects aggression, confidence and risk-taking. http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2008-04-17-testosterone-risks_N.htm High testosterone levels in women can cause many problems including hair loss, growth of facial and body hair, a deepening of the voice, and increased aggression. http://www.criticalbench.com/normal-testosterone-levels.htm seems many, many, many people are sexist, according to you.

willbeurdaddy -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 5:17:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u quote: ORIGINAL:OrionTheWolf Actually the investigation starts with reasonable suspicion, which the officer had. There is a distinct difference between resasonable suspicion and probable cause. There are several good sites that explain the differences, and how they effect police procedure. not true here either, If responding to a possible burglary, forced entry or not, even a simple unlocked door, yes, as an officer they will and have the right to search the home to ensure no burglars are inside, which even you would want them to do if it were your home............. Sorry not worth my time to research the case law again. Glad you are on the sidelines making those calls. If you look you should be able to find a Nevada, two Florida and a Missouri case that shows that the call by itself does not constitute probable cause. See now aren't you glad you are retired now. Hell even Terry stops have been challenged and are more strict. And I posted one where a 911 call was the sole reason for a stop and was considered probable cause. Its obviously not as clear cut as you seem to think.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 6:04:06 PM)
When challenged at a Supreme Court level it is pretty clear cut. Now when police want to over step their authority, and local judges uphold them, that is not clear cut. This is why if you really want to press your rights, you usually need to go further up the ladder where there is less political pandering.

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 6:04:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl seems many, many, many people are sexist, according to you. Nope, only the ones that try to fall back on science after being called out for using a predominantly male-associated hormone as the reason when two guys get into a confrontation. Could have been much easier if you'd have just said "ego" instead, as that likely would have been more accurate, given the facts of the case.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 6:10:36 PM)
Loki, just because you got your ass whipped by some women who told you how sexistt you act you decide to try and pull that stunt on me. wont work, isnt working. science proves what i said.. testosterone... that challenge to their maleness... made them act like they did. like it or not, its just that simple. now go find another "sweetie" to bother. i am done playing your games.

ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 6:26:10 PM)
No fighting in the war room!

Loki45 -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 6:28:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Loki, just because you got your ass whipped by some women who told you how sexistt you act you decide to try and pull that stunt on me. wont work, isnt working. science proves what i said.. testosterone... that challenge to their maleness... made them act like they did. like it or not, its just that simple. Oh I'd say it worked just fine. For that was all it took for you to resort to personal attacks. And ummm...your claim of science? That's backpeddaling at its finest and you know it. For if you actually knew anything about the science you 'tried' to highlight, you'd be fully aware of the following: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/586876_2 The professor was 60 years old, right? He should have DRASTICALLY reduced levels of testosterone. Nice try, but you fail.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 6:35:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda No fighting in the war room! ok ok ok... ill behave.. as much as i am able too Panda ~grins

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/25/2009 6:41:10 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy quote: ORIGINAL: OrionTheWolf quote: ORIGINAL: slutslave4u quote: ORIGINAL:OrionTheWolf Actually the investigation starts with reasonable suspicion, which the officer had. There is a distinct difference between resasonable suspicion and probable cause. There are several good sites that explain the differences, and how they effect police procedure. not true here either, If responding to a possible burglary, forced entry or not, even a simple unlocked door, yes, as an officer they will and have the right to search the home to ensure no burglars are inside, which even you would want them to do if it were your home............. Sorry not worth my time to research the case law again. Glad you are on the sidelines making those calls. If you look you should be able to find a Nevada, two Florida and a Missouri case that shows that the call by itself does not constitute probable cause. See now aren't you glad you are retired now. Hell even Terry stops have been challenged and are more strict. And I posted one where a 911 call was the sole reason for a stop and was considered probable cause. Its obviously not as clear cut as you seem to think. Thing is now, the charges have all been dropped. i seriously doubt we will ever see a lawsuit from either side. The PD has cleared the officer... i think the Mayor may still wanna stir in this for a few. But basically, on the front page at least, the issue is over. So, in essence, both were wrong in their actions. Charges were dropped because both were wrong, in my opinion. i do agree with many that this will make a great learning experience. Provided the right lessons are taught. i would suggest a pig roast and a few kegs of beer!

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