RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come?

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OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 1:47:46 PM)
What? A cop lie or file a false report? Never! How dare you bring anyone's attention to such things. Do you realize how damaging this will be to all the cops that do not lie? Things like this should never be mentioned.

kdsub -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 2:24:43 PM)
Dom...where did he lie?...surely you couldn't tell by that tape if anyone was yelling or asking for an ID? Butch

kdsub -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 2:35:08 PM)
I am disappointed in the tapes... In my area the police have recorders to record all interaction with suspects... just for this reason. Butch

DomKen -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 2:35:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Dom...where did he lie?...surely you couldn't tell by that tape if anyone was yelling or asking for an ID? Butch Officer indicated in his report that the 911 caller said 2 black men were seen breaking in. The 911 dispatcher says 2 men with suitcases nothing about race. The officer also claims the 911 caller met him upon his arrival. The 911 caller denies this as well. You can clearly hear Gates asking for the officer's ID during one of the radio calls, in a calm tone of voice and certainly not very loud.

kdsub -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 2:57:37 PM)
Where is his report.. it was not in your link was it?...THIS is all I could find for a police report on the incident is there another one? I don't think we will ever find all the facts.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 3:42:13 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Well the 911 call and the radio traffic between the officer and the dispatcher have been released. Seems the officer lied in his report several times and Gates is heard in the background not yelling but is heard asking for the officers idnetifying information. http://www.boston.com/ Maybe its just me. exactly at what point did you hear Gates asking for the ID? i have listened 5 times. quote: One thing the tapes didn't show: any clear background sound that indicated Gates was shouting during the incident. Another voice can be heard in the background of at least three transmissions, but what the person is saying isn't intelligible. http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/cambridge_polic_4.html If you heard him asking for the Cop's ID, you are hearing things even reporters cant make out. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html Per the arresting report, no mention of race was made until after he spoke to the Female caller. could she have changed her story once he got there? she claims not. we dont know for sure. as far as Gates being upset... doesnt sound like it on the tape... but that tape didnt catch alot of the conversation. The following was about the person who snapped the pic of Gates leaving the scene in handcuffs quote: “So I grabbed my camera, because when you see police, you know something’s going on.’’ Something was. Moments later, Carter snapped the only known photograph of a handcuffed Henry Louis Gates Jr. Carter said Gates was “agitated’’ as police led him off to face a charge of disorderly conduct. “I had no idea who he was,’’ Carter said. “I just took one picture of him . . . and was on my way.’’ That photograph has made the media rounds, popping up on the Internet; on television, including CNN, NBC, and CBS; and in such newspapers as USA Today, The Washington Post, The Boston Globe, and the Guardian in England. Jonathan Tepper, founder of Demotix, a citizen-journalist website that hosted and sold Carter’s photo, said he was surprised the image of Gates garnered such attention. “I thought it was an interesting story. I knew who he was,’’ he said, “but I didn’t expect it to get as big as it did.’’ Thus far, the photo has earned over $4,000, said Carter, who will reap half of everything Demotix collects for its use. After Carter took the photo, he showed it to his wife, who also didn’t recognize Gates. The weekend passed and the couple had forgotten about the episode, until late Monday night. That evening, the couple’s street was lined with news vans, and they soon realized the significance of the image in his camera. Carter found the Demotix website that night; the image went around the world the next morning. The incident has been a point of discourse across the country, and Carter also has an opinion. “I know he was tired and upset, but someone of his stature and education should be a little more understanding,’’ he said. http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/07/23/birth_of_a_flashpoint_gatess_neighbor_captured_the_moment/ And i agree. He was most likely tired, and aggitated. And we dont know anymore from the tape with dispatch then we did before. The only thing this has done is bring up the question of why he assumed it was two black men when the dispatch clearly said one they didnt know and the other they thought may have been hispanic. either the Cop saw them through the door... or... the caller changed her story once he got there. No way to prove any of it... or disprove it.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 4:04:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen quote: ORIGINAL: kdsub Dom...where did he lie?...surely you couldn't tell by that tape if anyone was yelling or asking for an ID? Butch Officer indicated in his report that the 911 caller said 2 black men were seen breaking in. The 911 dispatcher says 2 men with suitcases nothing about race. The officer also claims the 911 caller met him upon his arrival. The 911 caller denies this as well. You can clearly hear Gates asking for the officer's ID during one of the radio calls, in a calm tone of voice and certainly not very loud. Dispatcher: OK, are you standing outside? Caller: I’m standing outside, yes. Dispatcher: All right, well, police are on the way, you can meet them when they get there. What’s your name? Caller: My name is [deleted]. Dispatcher: All right, they’re on their way. Caller: OK, all right, I guess I’ll wait. Thanks. quote: But Murphy, speaking on Whalen's behalf, says the only interaction between Whalen and Crowley occurred at the scene when she gestured to him and told him she was the 911 caller and he told her to stay where she was. Another officer asked for her identification, but no officer interviewed her at the scene, Murphy says. Whalen stayed about five minutes and then left, Murphy says. Murphy says Whalen does not want to reopen a debate or stir up controversy with the Cambridge police or with Gates. She says Whalen only wants to set the record straight because she's been wrongly accused of being a racist. "She's been maligned and vilified and accused of racism and nothing could be further from the truth," Murphy says. Sounds to me like she is being called a racist. I feel for her, i really do. Im more inclinded to believe the Commish... quote: The newspaper quotes Wendy Murphy, a lawyer for Lucia Whalen, as saying she only saw the backs of both men outside Gates' house and did not know their race. Murphy says Whalen works at a Harvard office about 100 yards from where Gates lives. The Globe also says the Cambridge police commissioner confirms that account, although the police report says Whalen observed “what appeared to be two black males with backpacks on the front porch’’ of the house. The commissioner tells the paper that the report was a summary of all information gained during the police inquiry, and not just the 911 call. The incident sparked charges of racial profiling that mushroomed into a national debate after President Obama weighed in on the issue. The president has invited Gates and the officer to have a beer at the White House. That could happen as soon as this week, according to White House spokesman Robert Gibbs. http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline/2009/07/gates-neighbor-says-911-call-did-not-mention-race.html?csp=34 But, her statement (911 caller)... quote: Several times on the tape, Whalen says she is making the call for an older woman who lives in the neighborhood and is worried when she saw two men trying to barge into the house. Whalen describes the older woman as "a concerned neighbor." .... just doesnt sound right.

Loric -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 4:11:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl She stepped to a man like a man, trying to use brute force to get her way. Thats testosterone driven in my book. Step up to a man like a man and expect to be treated like a man. tazzy...I want to thank you for stating something that My Gran told Me when I was a younger Man...a lot of women today don't understand that some of us were raised to not take crap from them and that if a woman balls up her fist and takes a swing she's gonna get a swing right back. I may not hit her as hard as I'd hit a guy, but she'll certainly feel it in the morning. That's not Me advocating being abusive either, for those who might take it as such. It's called self defense, and you have the right to defend yourself in America, whether it's from a 98lb woman who wrongly and mistakenly believes you called her something unkind or a 200lb man that just wants to scrap. As to the OP, I've been watching the news and doing a bit of reading. I don't know about the laws in Mass, but here where I live if a cop responds to a B&E and there's someone in the house, they can and will enter and demand ID and showing a college ID isn't enough, because there were people carrying around fake college ID's here because someone that used to work for the university got pissed at them and printed up a bunch for her friends. So if the officer asked Gates for an ID and he showed him a college ID, yes, he can ask for another one that is a legal form of ID. As for the officer not showing his, there were two times that he gave the information and showed the ID that police are using these days with all the knock off badges that're easily available. So do I think it's racism? Yes, I do...on the part of Gates. Did the officer do wrong for arresting him? Not in My opinion, and definately not according to most of the laws that I've read about speaking to police officers. Granted, the laws I'm familiar with are for specific states that I've lived in, so they may not apply..but the point is, many states have laws that govern how a civilian can speak to an officer of the law.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 4:27:16 PM)
my father taught me that little jewel. growing up with four brothers and living on military bases, he was right. while i may not back down from a verbal argument, i learned early on from my brothers that if i threw a punch, so would they. women these days believe that because they weigh 100 lbs soaking wet, that they will be protected and can cry abuse when they instigated the whole thing. i testified against 2 of my brothers in domestic assualt cases... and for a third when he was the victim of his gf's abusive rages. a man.. or woman... has the right to walk away... violence solves nothing. unless im begging for it [;)]

DomKen -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 4:50:32 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen Well the 911 call and the radio traffic between the officer and the dispatcher have been released. Seems the officer lied in his report several times and Gates is heard in the background not yelling but is heard asking for the officers idnetifying information. http://www.boston.com/ Maybe its just me. exactly at what point did you hear Gates asking for the ID? i have listened 5 times. quote: One thing the tapes didn't show: any clear background sound that indicated Gates was shouting during the incident. Another voice can be heard in the background of at least three transmissions, but what the person is saying isn't intelligible. http://www.boston.com/news/local/breaking_news/2009/07/cambridge_polic_4.html If you heard him asking for the Cop's ID, you are hearing things even reporters cant make out. Download the mp3 and listen to teh section where the officer says the 'suspect' is uncooperatiove and to keep more cars coming. You can hear gates speaking in the background and clearly hear him asking for the officers identification. quote: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2009/0723092gates1.html Per the arresting report, no mention of race was made until after he spoke to the Female caller. could she have changed her story once he got there? she claims not. we dont know for sure. as far as Gates being upset... doesnt sound like it on the tape... but that tape didnt catch alot of the conversation. And the caller says she didn't speak to the officer beyond a wave and point to the house. Which is at variance with the report. Also the report claims Gates was exhibiting loud and tumulutous behavior in a public place. A man's home is not a public place it is teh very definition of private.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 4:54:57 PM)
I did listen. Even the reporters have listened. They are all saying its intelligible. you are hearing what you wish to hear. Noise ordinance allows for the arrest of someone who refuses to turn down his radio inside his home if its filtering into the streets and causing a scene. Just because you are within the confines of your house doesnt mean you can disrupt the neighborhood. Gates brought it outside. He was invited, he accepted the invitation. Even the man who took the picture said he was upset.

substobbws -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 5:13:24 PM)
I don't have time to go through all the pages of this thread so, I apologize if this has already been covered. My impression is that the professor was the first and only one to bring up race. The title of this thread asks "How far have we really come?" Is that yet another suggestion that any of this had to do with anyone's ethnic background? I believe that making a false accusation of racism is as bad as racism, itself. On the other hand, am I required to show "I.D" in my country if I have not been observed to be violating any laws? I don't think so. If so, I don't think it should be. His "I.D" might not have matched the address he was staying at for any number of legitimate reasons. I appreciate the position of good police officers. They put their lives on the line to do their jobs. At the same time, I think we do still have our rights. I didn't think we were at the point of having to submit to "Let me zee your papers." just yet. Speaking of rights and talking to the police, I think this is an excellent watch. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865 What if the man lied to the police about his identity/living there because he was having an affair? What if a murder happened down the street and someone wrongfully identified him? That he lied could be used by a prosecuting attorney against him.

OrionTheWolf -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 5:17:43 PM)
The charges were dropped by the prosecution, which usually means they do not feel they have a case, or that it is not severe enough to warrant the expenditure of resources. If everything was rock solid behind the cop, the charges would go through. I must be hearing what i want to hear as well. Gates and the cop both were asses, which was my original assessment of this. Also, disturbing the peace can come from noise or cussing, but most states have seperate laws for that because they are so easy to beat, since you are on private property. If it were that easy, the local Sheriffs Dept would be able to do something about my neighbors that race morocross bikes in their yard. Even the local solicitors office has said nothing can be done until after 10pm at night, which they would then be in violation of a noice ordinance.

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 5:37:07 PM)
oh how i know Master Orion. i have a neighbor who booms from 8 am till just up to the appointed hour. my point was that it doesnt always have to be outside the house. noice from within can also cause an arrest. but he was on his porch. depending on the incident, it is viewed as public. think of public nudity laws. you cant be nude on your porch if its visible from the streets or your neighbors. but i do agree he didnt have to be arrested. Crowley should have just walked away, been the better man. now that would have caused a huge stir... or would it have gone quietly away. i guess after all the reading and listening... im tired of Gates being seen as the poor abused man. he caused many of his own problems. http://garveys-ghost.blogspot.com/2009/07/911-tapes-from-gates-incident.html quote: When we listen to the recording of dispatchers and Crowley we hear Gates in the background clearly annoyed and at one point saying "I want..!" His full statements cannot be heard because they only can be heard when Crowley is radioing in. It is clear from the tape though that whatever transpired in the house started early into the incident. From the time Crowley radios that he is coming to the time they are calling in "The Wagon." is 4 min 38 Seconds. That's not a long time. In fact Crowley does not get to the residence until a minute in. From the radio call, Gates was clearly making noise prior to Crowley having asked the dispatch to verify a "Henry Louis Gates." Not 30 seconds into the arrival at the home of Gates and he's apparently laying into officer Crowley. 30 seconds (2:50 left) and Crowley has already radioed that "the gentleman" is being uncooperative. Note that he clearly has not had the time to get or confirm the ID of Gates. 15 seconds later Crowley asks for Harvard police. 30 Seconds later we can hear Gates still going at it and it's the first time we hear the officer ask to confirm Gates ID (time 2:15). Gates may have had "bronchitis" but he clearly had no problem raising his voice. In the last minute after asking for confirmation of Gates ID, we have radio silence from Crowley. This must be where He and Gates get into whatever verbal altercation. This also confirms Crowley's report where he claimed to try to leave the residence because he was having difficulty communicating over the radio due to Gates behavior and the "acoustics" of the hallway. I think these tapes resuscitates the reputation of Whalen while casting doubt on the motives of the unnamed woman whom initially saw Gates. Oh and apparently what police call a man with a PhD (at least in this instance) is "gentleman." This is what should have happened. (Gates at door): Excuse me officer what's the problem? (hand in clear view). Officer: There was a report of a break in progress. Gates: Oh I see, probably someone saw me having difficulty with my door. Hold on while I get my ID for you. Officer: Ok sir. Is there anyone else here? Gates: Yeah the cab driver who was helping me out. (goes and gets the ID) Gates: Here you go [hand over ID]. Thanks for looking out for the neighborhood. Anything else I can help you with. Officer: I need to call this in on the radio. Gates: No problem. I'm on the phone with Harvard, if you need anything else give me a shout. Officer: Thanks. [after the officer leaves] Gates on phone with Cornell West: Some cracker called the police on me! They still hate that I'm HNIC in here. http://garveys-ghost.blogspot.com/2009/07/gates-story-is-fishy.html as much as someone hated me for saying it before... it was the testosterone talkin'

kdsub -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 6:34:30 PM)
Thanks for the info tazzygirl..I couldn't find it...I think DomKen wants to hear something sooooo bad he thinks he does... I know I sure can't. I've stated what I think the circumstances are in this case many times above... but damn Gates sure threw a sissy fit…if the report can be believed. We have not heard the last of it I’m sure… There were by most reports at least 7 witnesses outside and that part should be easily confirmed. Butch

DomKen -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 6:41:34 PM)
So at first no one could hear Gates ask for ID now Tazzy quotes a reporter who did hear something, part of what I heard as well. So which is it? Is nothing intelligible on that tape or can gates be heard clearly? I'm listening to it again and he clearly says "I want <muffled by officer speaking>ication."

MzMia -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 6:52:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tazzygirl Gates on phone with Cornell West: Some cracker called the police on me! They still hate that I'm HNIC in here. http://garveys-ghost.blogspot.com/2009/07/gates-story-is-fishy.html as much as someone hated me for saying it before... it was the testosterone talkin' Tooooo funny tazzygirl! ROFL

servantforuse -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 6:56:58 PM)
I guess it's funny and ok for Mr. Gates to use a racial slur...

tazzygirl -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 6:59:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomKen So at first no one could hear Gates ask for ID now Tazzy quotes a reporter who did hear something, part of what I heard as well. So which is it? Is nothing intelligible on that tape or can gates be heard clearly? I'm listening to it again and he clearly says "I want <muffled by officer speaking>ication." You really do have issues. More than once the Officer admitted he was asked for his ID... more than once he said he gave it. Now, the fact that someone heard... "I want.." out of all that mess.. and you are ready to barrle in with guns blazing to prove your point of racism and wrong doing by the Cop. get real. What we heard backed up what the officer said. The commish backed up what the officer wrote. and you are still pissy over the whole thing.

Brain -> RE: The arrest of Henry Louis Gates: How far have we really come? (7/27/2009 7:08:18 PM)
An Arrest Incident Becomes a Lesson Not in Race But in Humility http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/07/26/ftn/main5189279.shtml?tag=cbsnewsSectionsArea.0 July 26, 2009 Schieffer on the Real Teachable Moment ... Then, the president did what presidents - or anyone, for that matter - seldom do: he admitted a mistake. He said he realized that what he had said just made things worse. That made me think. If the cop had told the scholar, "Sorry, I didn't mean to insult you when I asked you for identification, I was just trying to do the job you pay me to do," or if the scholar had told the cop, "You know, I shouldn't have popped off, it's just been a long, hard day," my guess if they had said that is none of this would have even made the local news. We all have bad days, no one is perfect, and when we are willing to step back, take a breath and admit that - or at least concede the other guy may have a point - it generally makes things better. To me, that's the lesson here.

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