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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/24/2009 5:52:43 AM   
CaringandReal


Posts: 1397
Joined: 2/15/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Drakontos


quote:

ORIGINAL: daintydimples


"zaphira does not love him; this slave feels no emotional ties to her owner at all. What keeps zaphira in his service is, as already mentioned, her respect of him and the loyalty that he has earned."

zaphira, you have made the above statement more than once, and it is one I find very confusing. If I respect someone and feel loyalty to them, those are very strong emotional ties to me. I would even go so far as to say, though I may think I am in love with someone, I will not allow myself to act on it unless I fell that accompanying loyalty and respect. So, I really don't get that statement.




*grins
It is ok that you don't 'get' it. There is no law that says that you must.

It's really quite simple though. zaphira does not look at relationships the way the majority of people do. zaphira is ok with that. It really matters little if someone on the outside does not understand it or not.



If it's really all that simple, then why don't you just explain it? In detail? Rather than constantly teasing people with references to it then going silent when asked for some real information?

Maybe the answer to DD's questions is too private to reveal. I can certainly understand that. But if it's too private to reveal, then why isn't it too private to tease others about it and encourage their questions over it? For someone who supposedly "doesn't care" what others on the outside of her relationship think, you sure seem to care a great deal about laying hints about it all over the place and encouraging people's curiousity! Just saying.

(in reply to Drakontos)
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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/24/2009 6:47:50 AM   
Padriag


Posts: 2633
Joined: 3/30/2005
Status: offline 		No... Dominant and Master aren't always synonyms.  You'll also find both labels mean different things to different people.  Like yourself, each evokes a different mental image and different expectations.  These can vary considerably and it adds to the general confusion.  Likewise you'll find the same variety among Submissives... who do indeed range from those who want to be "mindless sex zombies" to those who are closet dominants dictating exactly how things will go to their so-called dominant partner.

Welcome to the million shades of grey.  Black and white issues are about as rare around here as unicorns.

_____________________________

Padriag

A stern discipline pervades all nature, which is a little cruel so that it may be very kind - Edmund Spencer

(in reply to howthingsare)
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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/24/2009 8:03:27 AM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

I'm confused (I'm not even sure I'm posting this in the right area - but am hoping masters can help me on this one).
An ideal relationship for me entails mutual respect, and a strong understanding that things are the way I choose (but the respect comes into play - I'd never choose anything she didn't wish simply to be an ass - only what I thought was best).
But I'd also like it if, at the same time, she had her own opinions about everyday life and wasn't afraid to share thoughts and feelings and desires, as any everyday couple on the street might.


Read what you wrote again.. and a couple of more times if you want. You're not confused. In fact, sounds like you're a lot further along than a whole bunch of people that say they've been involved for a number of years but don't have half their shit together like you do.

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/24/2009 9:16:22 AM   
JonnieBoy


Posts: 1468
Joined: 4/22/2009
From: Cymru
Status: offline 		No.

But ...
quote:

ORIGINAL: howthingsare
I'm a dominant person in relationships - whether they be emotional, physical, or both.  I've never considered myself a "master" of any person (I suppose the word invokes images of lots of leather, rope, and whips). 


One does not have to be considered a "master" before one can play with rope and whips in leather ...

Pirate

(in reply to howthingsare)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/24/2009 9:19:40 AM   
eyesopened


Posts: 2798
Joined: 6/12/2006
From: Tampa, FL
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

No not all Masters are self proclaimed.

In a short version, in the Leather Community, if you call yourself a Master, and you have not EARNED that title (and the Cover/Cap that goes with it) they will laugh you out of the bar, deservedly so.


Not to hijack the thread but I am curious.  Are the only real Masters, those who are active in the Leather Community who have earned their Cap?  What is the criteria?  Because some tell me each community sets its own criteria, there is not a universal set of criteria.  This has always been confusing to me.  I consider my Master a real Master.  He has demonstrated his skill, knowledge, integrity and mastry and yes He is not a real Master.  I don't understand.

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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/24/2009 9:42:13 AM   
BOUNTYHUNTER


Posts: 9259
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quote:

ORIGINAL: eyesopened

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

No not all Masters are self proclaimed.

In a short version, in the Leather Community, if you call yourself a Master, and you have not EARNED that title (and the Cover/Cap that goes with it) they will laugh you out of the bar, deservedly so.


Not to hijack the thread but I am curious.  Are the only real Masters, those who are active in the Leather Community who have earned their Cap?  What is the criteria?  Because some tell me each community sets its own criteria, there is not a universal set of criteria.  This has always been confusing to me.  I consider my Master a real Master.  He has demonstrated his skill, knowledge, integrity and mastry and yes He is not a real Master.  I don't understand.


I earned my title of Master not only bdsm but of the martial arts variety,I don't see the big deal, if those you own call you master whats the problem..Again back to the question should you be called Master if you are slave less,I think so what say the rest of you ..bounty 

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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/24/2009 10:04:04 AM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		Sure, why not. I mean "Master" is just an empty title that means whatever the person bestowing it means it to. That's right, the person calling you "Master" is the one who defines what it means to them, nobody else. You have no right to be called a Master, nor does anybody have any obligation to call you such. Conversly, nobody can declare you not a master, except inasmuch as they define the term. One sub's fake is another sub's Master.

Its an empty title with no intrinsic meaning or value.

_____________________________

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Ha Ha...Charade you are!

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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/24/2009 10:08:25 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BOUNTYHUNTER
I earned my title of Master not only bdsm but of the martial arts variety,I don't see the big deal, if those you own call you master whats the problem..Again back to the question should you be called Master if you are slave less,I think so what say the rest of you ..bounty 

Good Morning, Bounty.  My best to you and yours.

If someone has never had one, I would have to say the answer would be no.  I tend to see it the same way as someone who has a dominant personality, but has never been involved in a D/s dynamic.  There's a big difference to Me between the two.  I'm not saying the person who has never had a submissive can't be an excellent Top.  Some of them are, beyond a doubt, but it takes a little more, in My opinion.

I know I'm going to get roasted for that one, but it is how I see the subject.


_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/24/2009 10:11:36 AM   
LillyoftheVally


Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline 		I do not think a title adds value to the nature, I think a person with a dominant personality who has never heard of d/s before is just as likely as being compatible with me as someone who uses all the words.

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Nah I am not happy to see you either

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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/24/2009 2:09:05 PM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

Sure, why not. I mean "Master" is just an empty title that means whatever the person bestowing it means it to. That's right, the person calling you "Master" is the one who defines what it means to them, nobody else. You have no right to be called a Master, nor does anybody have any obligation to call you such. Conversly, nobody can declare you not a master, except inasmuch as they define the term. One sub's fake is another sub's Master.

Its an empty title with no intrinsic meaning or value.


I agree in part, however it should also be remembered that in some of the sub-cultures under the BDSM or Kink umbrella such as the Leather Men and the Gorean Lifestyle, the term Master is clearly defined by either earning after an apprenticeship under a master (I understand this is the case with the Leather men) and a Gorean Freeman (Male Dominant) is referred to as a Master if he owns a slave. All Gorean slaves address Gorean Freemen as Master and Gorean Free Women as Mistress. In the case of other dynamic it is probably much of a personal thing. For example, I am the Master of Bruin Cottage (my home), yet I expect no one to call me Master unless they choose to do so. I have had a slave comment when answering the phone for me "Just a moment please whilst I ask the Master..." no big deal. The term Master is of course used in other areas such as Martial Arts, it is sometimes used in Arts or Crafts as a Master Craftsman (originally an apprentice used to refer to the Master they were apprenticed to as Master as did other folk when talking about him). Master is also a University Degree although for some strange reason, it is not used as part of the normal address as the Degree of Doctor in general usage..I would also be remiss if I didn't comment that a captain of a vessel is may also be referred to as the Master of said vessel.


< Message edited by IronBear -- 7/24/2009 2:12:07 PM >

_____________________________

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Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to Arpig)
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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/24/2009 9:23:42 PM   
Arpig


Posts: 9930
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: Increasingly further from reality
Status: offline 		All true and valid points IB, and in a way also illustrative of just how imprecise a term "Master" is.

_____________________________

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Ha Ha...Charade you are!

Why do they leave out the letter b on "Garage Sale" signs?

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Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/24/2009 9:47:48 PM   
TheDomInTheHat


Posts: 33
Joined: 6/14/2007
Status: offline 		I really liked what one of the local group leaders said here. He probably gives the same speech everytime but it basically goes like this:  "I don't say that I am a dominant, I am her [his girlfriend] dominant." This kind of went along with a spiel about public play etiquette and how just because someone is a submissive does not mean they are your submissive and kindergarten rules apply. My point is that roles are based on relationships. Outside the context of a relationship, whether just for a scene, short term or long term, a role is just a preference or inclination or perhaps a fetish.





(in reply to playfulotter)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/25/2009 5:37:39 AM   
Cdub2U


Posts: 69
Joined: 9/20/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DePubed

In real-time situations, "Dominant" does not equal "Master". Most "Masters" are SELF-PROCLAIMED "Masters." Just think if a person self-proclaimed themself a "Master of Medicine" (M.D.). Would you go to them as your physician? Just because they call themself a "Master of Medicine" doesnt make them one, no matter how self-taught and experienced with practicing medicine they feel they are. Unfortunately there are no schools or academies where people can go to be educated on how to be a "master", to be tested, and if they pass the examination, to earn the title 'Master".
So, in my opinion, it is much more real, and honest simply to know that oneself tends to be "dominant" or "submissive". I think that if you read a lot of the comments in this group many times submissives report that they were shocked to learn that they knew more than their "Master" but that their "Master" has an ego-thing which means he feels he is automatically superior and infallible and that any input by a submissive is treated as rebelliousness (and that you are not a 'real submissive, i.e. doormat).
So, it is better if you hone your skills as a Dominant than to self-proclaim yourself a 'Master', whether it is a 'Master of slaves" (most of those who call themself this dont actually even have a slave and cant get the same one twice) or a "Master of Arts" or 'Master of science." etc. In my opinion any "Master" needs to prove how he obtained that title outside of their own wishful thinking.


LAUGHING MY BLACK ASS OFF

I always hated it when some dupe introduced himself as 'Master Fuckhead' or any other name starting with "Master".  Even when I owned a slave she was told NOT to call me master.  Being who I am I get fairly offended hearing the name master... makes me want to put a hurt on somebody!




_____________________________

"Free your mind and your ass will follow
the kingdom of heaven is within"
G. Clinton

"Can't you see, it all makes perfect sense
Expressed in Dollars and cents, Pounds shillings and pence"
R. Waters

(in reply to DePubed)
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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/25/2009 11:40:35 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline 		This may piss off a few Toppers out there, but while I have PERSONALLY found a distinct difference between subs and slaves (via their approach to this dynamic), on the other side of the slash I think it often boils down to if they own a slave, said slave simply REFERS TO them as their "Master"; and if owning a sub, said sub simpy REFERS TO them as their "Dom".

And while I'm sure there's some "leather community" idea of what supposedly constitutes a "Master", I'm sure I wouldn't agree with it, as it's likely based on some BDSM-esqe activity; which to me means little.  To me, a "Master" is simply one who not only has experience in training/owning another (Note: Some have more experience from training/owning ONE person, than those who've trained/owned a dozen), but is a "Master" of their own life (not a train-wreck of a human being), shows honor, integrity, caring, empathy, love, wisdom, authority, leadership; and yet... can still be "real" and emotionally open... not playing the typical ACT (being all serious and such) of what a dominant is "supposed" to be... but is just, well... naturally dominant.

That's my personal view on this, anyway.


< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 7/25/2009 11:41:47 PM >

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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/26/2009 2:58:25 AM   
spookyfe


Posts: 74
Status: offline 		When i met my master and yes he is a master not just a dom he wouldnt let me call him that till i felt he earned the title and it wasnt long till i was calling him master.   He wont ask my opinion on qaspects of play as he knows it confuses the hell out of me.  he said to tell him if i see or hear of anything but he knows more than i have read so hasnt come up.  outside play i am his submissive 24/7 our conversations and activities are fulfilling intellectually for us both so no you are not wrong.  we arent all bimbos far from it. 

I think you have a better idea than other doms i have known about your role

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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 7/26/2009 4:02:58 AM   
IronBear


Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheDomInTheHat

I really liked what one of the local group leaders said here. He probably gives the same speech everytime but it basically goes like this:  "I don't say that I am a dominant, I am her [his girlfriend] dominant." This kind of went along with a spiel about public play etiquette and how just because someone is a submissive does not mean they are your submissive and kindergarten rules apply. My point is that roles are based on relationships. Outside the context of a relationship, whether just for a scene, short term or long term, a role is just a preference or inclination or perhaps a fetish.



That has been around for a long time I understand. I used to have the tag line with my siggy "Yes, I am a Master, just not your Master!"  It is a view I hold true to and shall continue to do so. I am only Master to those collared to myself or my Home, Lodge Members, a small number of those involved in 9thC Irish Calligraphy and Document Illumination, and students I may have in Martial Arts and Psychology (Until I obtain my Doctorate and then the buggers can call me Dr). Other than that it has no real meaning other than that which others may choose to invest it with.

< Message edited by IronBear -- 7/26/2009 4:03:40 AM >

_____________________________

Iron Bear

Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to TheDomInTheHat)
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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/7/2009 2:28:47 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: howthingsare

Hi there - just joined after reading through the forums.  Lots of interesting information out there so far.

I'm a dominant person in relationships - whether they be emotional, physical, or both.  I've never considered myself a "master" of any person (I suppose the word invokes images of lots of leather, rope, and whips).
But, I've been in a few relationships in which I am expected to be the sole decision maker.  I'm expected to expect that what I say goes.  And I've enjoyed that - it's how and why I'm exploring more about this lifestyle.

I suppose I haven't read too much about the lines between taking and holding the reins, and also having a "normal" emotional/romantic relationship.

I'm confused (I'm not even sure I'm posting this in the right area - but am hoping masters can help me on this one).
An ideal relationship for me entails mutual respect, and a strong understanding that things are the way I choose (but the respect comes into play - I'd never choose anything she didn't wish simply to be an ass - only what I thought was best).
But I'd also like it if, at the same time, she had her own opinions about everyday life and wasn't afraid to share thoughts and feelings and desires, as any everyday couple on the street might.

Am I a bit too picky?  Or am I mistakenly making a general assumption that most "devoted" subs end up seeming like mindless sex zombies?  Sorry for any incorrect preconceived notions that may offend anybody - but that's why I'm here - to learn.

Anxiously awaiting helpful/critical/etc input.  Thank you. 




While I have the final say, I'd be fool not to seek input from my sub, because I know she came with a very able mind I do not see wanting a sub with brains as being too picky. I believe very few submissives would be considered "mindless sex zombies"






(in reply to howthingsare)
Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/7/2009 5:58:09 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline 		Your description sounds pretty much exactly like Carol's and my day to day life. You'll find no leather, whips or chains in our closets (well, OK, I lied. We do have a nice set of kid leather cuffs she made and her collar is leather, but that's it). We don't do punishment. It just works out better for us if I make all the decisions. She's good with that. No muss. No fuss.

Just as you indicated, the fact that I'm making the decisions does not mean that I don't solicit input from her. And, given that I both love and respect her, I give her opinions a great deal of weight in my head. I'm actually quite proud of the fact that Carol argues/disagrees/whatever with me more regularly and more forcefully as my slave than she ever did as my wife.

If you saw us on the street you would have no idea that we are a master/slave couple. Hell, most of the time, if you saw us in our living room you still wouldn't.

So like I said, from what you wrote, it sounds like a pretty close match to my marriage. So yeah, I'd say it's possible. And no, it's not too picky.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/8/2009 12:22:32 AM   
myself1168


Posts: 6
Joined: 11/10/2008
Status: offline 		Well I've seen some bits and pieces in the replies. The definitions of BDSM aren't exactly in webster's dictionary. They can vary from person to person. In my opinion the difference is in the relationship. A dominant controls his or her sub, where as a master(mistress) owns his or her slave. Again this is my perspective and its shared by some, but open for debate. As to I'm sure the next question that my statement brings up. My personal perception of the difference between a slave and a submissive. Is that the submissive, maintains a list of things he or she would not participate in. Where the slave has given his/herself fully to the owner. As an example, a submissive has safewords. A slave may or may not, sometimes it is in a slave contract that the slave has a right to say no one time, but by doing so is released from service. Again please note these are my own ramblings.

As to your later question, there are many subs and slaves that are not mindless zombies. Granted there are some that seem to be, but this I would hope is only for public appearence. It saddens me to think that there would be a sub or slave that did not have a mind of his or her own.



(in reply to howthingsare)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/8/2009 8:21:03 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: howthingsare
Am I a bit too picky?  Or am I mistakenly making a general assumption that most "devoted" subs end up seeming like mindless sex zombies? 



I love being a mindless sex zombie, unfortunately real life rarely allows for sufficient time to put me in that mode.

We have mutual love and respect. We hold hands walking around. We both have our own opinions and if I can prove to him, he's made a mistake he will change his decision. It just rarely happens.

And if he was the sort of idiot who thinks the only way to prove he's in charge is to constantly make me unhappy, he'd be alone.

Whether you want to be called a dom or master or sir or boss or captain or anything else is up to the two of you.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to howthingsare)
Profile   Post #: 40
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