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RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/8/2009 10:01:14 AM

NorthernGent

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quote:

ORIGINAL: howthingsare

Anxiously awaiting helpful/critical/etc input. Thank you.

I like to have certain things that matter to me done my way. I'm not terribly interested in the supermarket label whether that be dominant or master.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to howthingsare)

Post #: 41

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/8/2009 12:08:45 PM

DomImus

Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
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I personally have only recognized the classifications of dominant and submissive. Dominant and submissive seem like pretty objective divisions. People usually know whether they are one or the other unless they have switch tendencies. This whole dominant - master thing is highly subjective and therefore highly ambiguous.. I just see Master as some title a person dubs themselves as in the same vein as Lord or whatever. Someone can call himself Master Sam or whatever but there really isn't such a thing "a" master in bdsm.That does not mean that some are not called master - my submissive calls me that at times. That is different from the noun 'master'. I just don't see it.

My two cents.

(in reply to howthingsare)

Post #: 42

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/19/2009 8:08:54 AM

SirJ40

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I generally discern between "Dominant" and "Master" by the relationships they keep. I also generally ignore self-affixed titles.
Masters keep slaves...... slaves are different in mindset, behavior, and expectations than submissives are. It's a different kind of relationship dynamic than Dominant/submissive.
Dominants have submissives.. but they commonly don't think of it as "ownership" even if they do feel possessive.
There may, of course, be some overlap depending on the personal preferences and protocols of the individuals in the relationship. Neither of these "definitions" are "definite and absolute".
In some cases, as with long-term Lifestylers, who have established a solid reputation as being knowledgeable, responsible, and experienced, then they may be given the title of "Master" by their peers, and in this situation, it means more like "has advanced /expert development of the mental, physical, and emotional skills of the Dominant personality, and has proven to be well above average in their execution or observation".
This does not indicate that they lean towards slavekeeping, or that they do not.. it simply means that they have a demonstrated above-average experience, and they are being recognized for it. And yes.. 'experience' is critical to earning a title in this fashion.
I feel that these are some of the reasons that we discern between "M/s" and "D/s" in our Lifestyle.

_____________________________

Make your own decisions, and own the decisions you make.

(in reply to DomImus)

Post #: 43

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/19/2009 8:34:54 AM

Daes

Posts: 246
Joined: 4/20/2007
From: Diamond Bar, SoCal
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No. In my opinion a dominant does not equal Master. He/She is master to his/her slave if they have reached that level in their relationship.

_____________________________

~*Estrellita*~
I want to be in surrender of His strength, of His power. Alone, I am nothing, but in His arms I am all things...

~His puppy~

(in reply to SirJ40)

Post #: 44

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/23/2009 8:32:30 AM

Goddess2002

Posts: 226
Joined: 2/29/2008
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No. A Master is one who has "Mastered" the art of domination.

(in reply to Daes)

Post #: 45

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/23/2009 9:02:41 AM

porcelaine

Posts: 5020
Joined: 7/24/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: howthingsare

Am I a bit too picky? Or am I mistakenly making a general assumption that most "devoted" subs end up seeming like mindless sex zombies? Sorry for any incorrect preconceived notions that may offend anybody - but that's why I'm here - to learn.

Anxiously awaiting helpful/critical/etc input. Thank you.

i assure you we maintain our marbles and protests as well.

in regard to your question, no. i see the two as complimentary in some respects but different in many others. the level of responsibility that accompanies being a master is much greater in my mind. i see that as a more defined, long term, vested relationship that both parties have willingly committed themselves to. on a personal note it is a title i reserve solely for my owner and never utilize it in other capacities.

porcelaine

_____________________________

His will; my fate.

(in reply to howthingsare)

Post #: 46

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/23/2009 10:58:46 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: howthingsare

But I'd also like it if, at the same time, she had her own opinions about everyday life and wasn't afraid to share thoughts and feelings and desires, as any everyday couple on the street might.

Am I a bit too picky? Or am I mistakenly making a general assumption that most "devoted" subs end up seeming like mindless sex zombies? Sorry for any incorrect preconceived notions that may offend anybody - but that's why I'm here - to learn.

Anxiously awaiting helpful/critical/etc input. Thank you.

yes you are mistaken, but fear not. you are not the first and you will not be the last to worry about this. interestingly though it is often the new subs that ask the question 'will i become a mindless zombie'

the answer that often comes back is 'not if you dont want to be'

another answer is that you define what you want from a relationship and a submissive and then you make that happen. every relationship is tailor made, bespoke and entirely down to youre own discretion (and hers)

edited to add in order to answer the initial question: titles are down to individual tastes and opinions - if you feel it fits you then wear it, if it doesnt then dont.

< Message edited by lally2 -- 8/23/2009 11:03:38 AM >

(in reply to howthingsare)

Post #: 47

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/24/2009 5:34:35 PM

Carmeldelight

Posts: 139
Joined: 4/22/2005
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No a dom is not considered a master......sometimes you run across a dom with a friend in their head that tell them that they are master...so just watch out for the friend in the head master!!!!

(in reply to howthingsare)

Post #: 48

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/24/2009 9:25:21 PM

masterlink65

Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
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i have always been a dominant person, able to control people and situations, etc.

the day i took ownership of a slave is the day i became a master and slave owner.

there is a very big difference between being in dom/sub situations for fun and play, but master/slave fulltime ownership everyday commitment is one totally different thing.

being master of a craft is not the term the OP is trying to make point of if i understand correctly

(in reply to howthingsare)

Post #: 49

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/25/2009 10:47:30 AM

SimplyIsaac

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Joined: 12/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

No not all Masters are self proclaimed.

In a short version, in the Leather Community, if you call yourself a Master, and you have not EARNED that title (and the Cover/Cap that goes with it) they will laugh you out of the bar, deservedly so.

Some of us don't want anything to do with leather caps, chaps and bars, I'm thinkin'.

And who determines if you "earned" the title or not?

(in reply to Sunnyfey)

Post #: 50

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/25/2009 10:56:48 AM

LillyoftheVally

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Joined: 7/22/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

And who determines if you "earned" the title or not?

For me it is the person who calls you master without covering a grin

_____________________________

'My doctor says that I have a malformed public-duty gland and a natural deficiency in moral fibre, and that I am therefore excused from saving Universes.'

Nah I am not happy to see you either

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)

Post #: 51

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/25/2009 11:21:00 AM

SimplyIsaac

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Joined: 12/20/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

And who determines if you "earned" the title or not?

For me it is the person who calls you master without covering a grin

Right on. And simply stated. Finis.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

Post #: 52

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/25/2009 12:49:54 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

And simply stated. Finis.

Not exactly. Let's continue.

quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

No not all Masters are self proclaimed.

In a short version, in the Leather Community, if you call yourself a Master, and you have not EARNED that title (and the Cover/Cap that goes with it) they will laugh you out of the bar, deservedly so.

Some of us don't want anything to do with leather caps, chaps and bars, I'm thinkin'.

And who determines if you "earned" the title or not?

It's quite fine if you don't want anything to do with it, but I would like to remind you that some of us do. Quite frankly, I think you'd be surprised how many people are interested in the leather culture or associated with it in some way. From My own personal experience, it's a higher number than you might be estimating.

Even with people who don't identify as leather, I can tell you that those questions relating to it and to protocol are the ones that I answer most often in real life. As much as I tend to have more people who are interested in My attention because I am a female Dominant, it is obvious to Me that I receive a multitude more due to being one that has a leather lifestyle preference. People are absolutely drawn to it.

One last little thing. Most of the folks that I know that have received their Cap don't view it as a status symbol. In fact, it's one of the most humbling experiences I've ever had and many have felt the same when they received theirs.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)

Post #: 53

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/25/2009 2:42:40 PM

masterlink65

Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline

ladypact is correct.

i could give a fuck less about leather, unless i am riding my motorcycle.

but i also respect the community which i represent and also represents me. my family is considered a leather family. leather plays very little part in our daily lives, but the things i have learned i try to carry on the best i can, with the same respect my elders gave me during those times. somethings are better earned than to have just given to you. it is nice to see people still know what it means to have earned your leathers.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 54

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/25/2009 5:34:56 PM

IronBear

Posts: 9008
Joined: 6/19/2005
From: Beenleigh, Qld, Australia
Status: offline

I agree LP, the only personal honorifics I value, saving those I either was born with or have inherited, are those I have earned.

_____________________________

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Master of Bruin Cottage

http://www.bruincottage.org

Your attitude, words & actions are yours. Take responsibility for them and the consequences they incur.

D.I.L.L.I.G.A.F.

(in reply to masterlink65)

Post #: 55

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/25/2009 6:22:12 PM

SimplyIsaac

Posts: 376
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

It's quite fine if you don't want anything to do with it, but I would like to remind you that some of us do. Quite frankly, I think you'd be surprised how many people are interested in the leather culture or associated with it in some way.

You might be suprised to know I'm not suprised, actually, lp.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
Even with people who don't identify as leather, I can tell you that those questions relating to it and to protocol are the ones that I answer most often in real life. As much as I tend to have more people who are interested in My attention because I am a female Dominant, it is obvious to Me that I receive a multitude more due to being one that has a leather lifestyle preference. People are absolutely drawn to it.

Cool beans.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact
One last little thing. Most of the folks that I know that have received their Cap don't view it as a status symbol. In fact, it's one of the most humbling experiences I've ever had and many have felt the same when they received theirs.

That's nice—honestly. But would I be mistaken in suggesting that you should perhaps consider those who are *not* into leather and could care less about "earning" a cap? I know I'm one. I think Lilly hit it on the head; the real evidence of being a master lies not in a committee, a badge, acceptance into a clique, a club pass or a "cap"; it's in actually being a master, and the proof is in the pudding...pudding being how well you manage and care for those who are under your authority.

(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 56

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/25/2009 10:40:35 PM

masterlink65

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Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline

well then... like ladypact said. if you dont give a fuck about it. dont be surprised when you go into a place and do not get the respect you think you deserve, especially if you didnt earn it.

its kind of like when the shopping cart bum comes up to you and says, hey i'm the president of these united states,,,, you look t the bum and say whatever,,,, if you even pay that much attention to him

you see,, i am only a master to my slave. i claim to be master of nothing else. not even my trade. i feel there is always somethings to learn. when my colleagues and contemporaries call me a master of my trade i may start to consider it at that point.

i may be a master of the obvious, but still have no claim to it

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)

Post #: 57

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/25/2009 10:49:05 PM

masterlink65

Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
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my mistake, i believe sunnyfey said it....

anyway, i just love when people make up their own definition of things

wouldnt it be nice to go to a boss and say, last night i decided i was boss and you are simply going to have to like the title i gave to myself.

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)

Post #: 58

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/25/2009 11:34:19 PM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: SimplyIsaac
That's nice—honestly. But would I be mistaken in suggesting that you should perhaps consider those who are *not* into leather and could care less about "earning" a cap? I know I'm one. I think Lilly hit it on the head; the real evidence of being a master lies not in a committee, a badge, acceptance into a clique, a club pass or a "cap"; it's in actually being a master, and the proof is in the pudding...pudding being how well you manage and care for those who are under your authority.

Don't you think, though that the "pudding" is going to be self-defined? The reason the term may have meaning within some closed community is that that community can, to at least some degree establish standards. To the extent that the community is successful in that, then the term takes on an objective meaning within that context (while still meaning nothing to anyone outside that context).

In the larger sphere though, there is no such standard setting body. And I'd be wiling to go out on a limb and suggest that my thoughts about it are not particularly similar to a lot of other people's -- which is just as it should be.

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to SimplyIsaac)

Post #: 59

RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/26/2009 5:19:25 AM

CNJDom

Posts: 186
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Southern NJ
Status: offline

My goodness OP, look at this big can of worms you've opened up with a simply not-simple question of terminology? The concept of BDSM terminology is one of the big ones, like faith is to religion. In religion, you can have 20-people in a room and ask one question concerning faith....and you'll be sure to get 20 answers. This is the nature of Man and the nature of faith. So it is with the terminology of BDSM. It is a bane to all involved to be struggled with until it's resolved personally. Or by a resounding popular vote.

My sub was very poingant when she plunged herself into the question of what's the difference between "bottom/submissive/slave". I liked her answer very much, and it went along the lines like this (My interpretation as best as I can recall):
"Bottom"---is what you do.
"Submissive"---is what you are, and how you feel and act.
"Slave"---is the title bestowed and accepted by your significant (BDSM) partner.

So you reverse-engineer this:
"Top"---is what you do.
"Dominant"---is what you are, and how you feel and act.
"Master"---is the title bestowed and accepted by your significant (BDSM) partner.

This is what it is on a personal level. That's the level that counts the most.

On a more public level, No one likes a self-proclaimed "Master". Some view self-entitlement as pompasity, and like other negative behaviors, it's not always appreciated. Respect is a good key to a lot of things here I feel. I couldn't expect others to call me "Master" unless others considered me one for some reason other than I call myself one. A Master can be acknowledged by others in their entitlement or by what they do. This is a different level of Mastery. If you are proficient in a disipline (or disiplines), then you can be a "Master" of that disipline which is also an earned title, but on a larger level.

I'd like to take from a quote from Master Taino that I really feel deeply about: "You can't expect respect to happen. You won't get respect from DEMANDING respect. You must COMMAND respect." This also means that one has to have respect of others (submissive and dominant and not-otherwise-specified), before they will respect you. I hope this helps in some way. Good luck and don't sweat the terminology and go with what feels natural logically correct.

(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 60

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