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RE: Is a Dom always considered a "master?" - 8/30/2009 12:07:02 PM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DavanKael

Sunnyfey: Interesting elucidation of someone earning greater credibility in the leather community.  :>  While protocols and details may be different, someone of supposed experience and expertise lambasting someone of credibility with whom they simply don't agree would be frowned upon in said community as I frowned upon a certain individual's personal attack on a friend, no? 

Davan


Yes it would be frowned apon. If there's one thing about the Leather Community, its your reputation. Your reputation is EVERYTHING, in the Leather Community. And I like it that way


_____________________________

Resident Hell Cat



(in reply to DavanKael)
Profile   Post #: 101
RE: Is a Dom always considered a "master?" - 8/30/2009 5:09:49 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline 		This reply is to no one in particular.

I could sit here for an hour and type out everything that I ever did that contributed to the idea that anyone ever thought I deserved a Cap.  I'm not going to.  Not because I can't substantiate the reasons, but because I don't like doing it.  There's not one thing that I ever did in this journey that was done with the intention that I would earn My cover for it.   I'd have been just as happy not earning My leathers.  My own recognition was never what I wanted.

Regardless of public opinion, I was just living My life.  If anyone can find fault in that, I will happily allow them to do so.  If you can come to Me and decide for yourself, without prior judgment, I'm fine with that.  All I ask is that you know Me first.

Are you quite sure your decision is made, without all of the evidence?


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 102
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/31/2009 3:35:08 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		i dont see where i have debased ANYONE?!! can you please explain? i have only shared with this forum my experiences and what i have been taught.

i am not the one on here saying i would never call anyone else master but my master. did i ever say that? no i did not. but plenty others have said that. which i think is very disrespectful. if i have someone introduced to me as master soandso.or mistress  whatshername, i would respect that, and call that person by their title, just as that person would do the same for me, i would expect.

i never said if you didnt earn a cap the hard way doesnt mean you are not what you say you are.


to answer the OP though. no, a dom is not always considered a master. as other have mentioned there are several ways to look at this. master of a slave? master of a trade? master of rope bondage? master of giving enemas? master of whip making?

a master is the dom of the relationship. but a dom is not always a master. in play situations as d/s parties, and people who play in dominance and submission and collar someone for a night, is argueable, apparently, as to what someone decides what their definition of the terms of use.

i was not saying i would not recognize your title. i was saying there are places that will treat you that way IF, you dont wear your leather right, IF you didnt earn it. there are hardcore leather bars and clubs that you will be ignored at if this is the case. i have seen it in several places in several states.especially in gay communities. if wear your armband on the left and your keys on the right.or if your leather is ill fitting, you will not only confuse others, but you may get chuckled at. now,,, i am not saying by me, cause if i am not on my motorcycle you will most likely not see me in leather.

if you are talking cause i smack a two year old down. then so be it. someone with two years experience of anything should not be doing anything but eyes/ears open, mouth shut. but that is just my arrogant nature of speaking down to the plebs again. next week i will be serving bread crumbs, so line up early



cheers

(in reply to Apocalypso)
Profile   Post #: 103
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 8/31/2009 5:20:42 PM   
sweetsub1957


Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: howthingsare

I've been in a few relationships in which I am expected to be the sole decision maker.  I'm expected to expect that what I say goes.  And I've enjoyed that - it's how and why I'm exploring more about this lifestyle.

I suppose I haven't read too much about the lines between taking and holding the reins, and also having a "normal" emotional/romantic relationship.

I'm confused (I'm not even sure I'm posting this in the right area - but am hoping masters can help me on this one).
An ideal relationship for me entails mutual respect, and a strong understanding that things are the way I choose (but the respect comes into play - I'd never choose anything she didn't wish simply to be an ass - only what I thought was best).
But I'd also like it if, at the same time, she had her own opinions about everyday life and wasn't afraid to share thoughts and feelings and desires, as any everyday couple on the street might.

Am I a bit too picky?  Or am I mistakenly making a general assumption that most "devoted" subs end up seeming like mindless sex zombies?  Sorry for any incorrect preconceived notions that may offend anybody - but that's why I'm here - to learn.

Anxiously awaiting helpful/critical/etc input.  Thank you. 



This sounds just like Sir's & my relationship.  He wants & gets my input, but He is the final decision-maker and what He says goes.  We also have a so-called "normal" emotional/romantic relationship.  We love each other, hold hands in public, go places & do non-bdsm things together besides our more private D/s dynamic.  He does not want me to call Him "Master."  There is a certain personal-and-special-to-Him name that I call Him in private, I call Him "Sir" in public around bdsm'ers and by His first name around 'nillas.  I am His very devoted sub, yet I am not at all a "mindless sex zombie."  Well, maybe for a little while.  lol

I used to think a Master owns slaves and a Dom owns subs, but I could be totally wrong.  I discovered bdsm under a year ago and the whole dang title thing is confusing to me.  I will call Sir what I call Him and He tells me to call other Dominants I meet "Sir" or "Ma'am" as the case may be because they are not my Master or Mistress.

sweetsub1957

_____________________________

Member: Lance's Fag Hags.

"That's not just a chip on her shoulder, that's the whole potato!" ~Lady Angelika~

In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to howthingsare)
Profile   Post #: 104
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 9/4/2009 1:28:27 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65

i dont see where i have debased ANYONE?!! can you please explain? i have only shared with this forum my experiences and what i have been taught.

i am not the one on here saying i would never call anyone else master but my master. did i ever say that? no i did not. but plenty others have said that. which i think is very disrespectful. if i have someone introduced to me as master soandso.or mistress  whatshername, i would respect that, and call that person by their title, just as that person would do the same for me, i would expect.

i never said if you didnt earn a cap the hard way doesnt mean you are not what you say you are.


to answer the OP though. no, a dom is not always considered a master. as other have mentioned there are several ways to look at this. master of a slave? master of a trade? master of rope bondage? master of giving enemas? master of whip making?

a master is the dom of the relationship. but a dom is not always a master. in play situations as d/s parties, and people who play in dominance and submission and collar someone for a night, is argueable, apparently, as to what someone decides what their definition of the terms of use.

i was not saying i would not recognize your title. i was saying there are places that will treat you that way IF, you dont wear your leather right, IF you didnt earn it. there are hardcore leather bars and clubs that you will be ignored at if this is the case. i have seen it in several places in several states.especially in gay communities. if wear your armband on the left and your keys on the right.or if your leather is ill fitting, you will not only confuse others, but you may get chuckled at. now,,, i am not saying by me, cause if i am not on my motorcycle you will most likely not see me in leather.

if you are talking cause i smack a two year old down. then so be it. someone with two years experience of anything should not be doing anything but eyes/ears open, mouth shut. but that is just my arrogant nature of speaking down to the plebs again. next week i will be serving bread crumbs, so line up early



cheers


quote:

if you are talking cause i smack a two year old down. then so be it. someone with two years experience of anything should not be doing anything but eyes/ears open, mouth shut. but that is just my arrogant nature of speaking down to the plebs again. next week i will be serving bread crumbs, so line up early


So you are proud and feel you are justified in speaking to another individual in such a manner? Sir this is an open forum which allows individuals to post their thought and opinions, regardless of their value. However this is not a place for one to make disparaging remarks against another. Since you seemed quite impressed with numbers, your 10 years was it? It appears you have not learned much when it comes to how a Dominant should conduct oneself. Well, since you feel it is proper that an individual who has experience has the right to set policy on another, my over 30 years, gives me justification to inform you that it is you who needs to sit down and shut up until such time as learn you are able to grasp and put into practice the concept of manners , humility and common courtesy



_____________________________

Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey Fierstein

(in reply to masterlink65)
Profile   Post #: 105
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 9/7/2009 4:46:14 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline 		yes,,, as a matter of fact,,,, i do feel justified. if you would like to email me, i can give a complete outline of my qualifications. in the mean time ,,,, feel free to browse my profile. you may find some useful information in there.

if you do check out my profile you will also see what my situation is here, with some photos of me and my slave(s)


i still say slaves, because bruno has an impact on my life even after his passing.

i know there are only a few on here who may agree, but its not really my manners and ego that need to be checked.

see,,, thats the point of earning. i have already been through the humiliation and humbling. i probated and earned mine, there is no need for further argument really.

the ten years is actual ownership of a slave. prior to that i had already several years of experience and knowledge of the lifestyle. that, along with my slave having even more experience and knowledge of the lifestyle. all those years oldman was in hellfire. i am sure he learned a thing or two.

get what you can early this week. the cupboards are low, having just gotten back from the east coast. so crumbs and handouts may not come so easy for the plebs this week

(in reply to Acer49)
Profile   Post #: 106
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 9/9/2009 11:37:05 AM   
Shack


Posts: 8
Joined: 6/24/2007
Status: offline
Is a dom always considered a "master?" There have been many interesting responses here, and, IN MY OPINION, all of them are right for the person who posted them. Nevertheless, I would like to add some comments that represent MY PERSONAL OPINION.

1. IN MY OPINION, a Dom is not necessarily a Master. A Master is always dominant.

2. A Dominant, IN MY OPINION, is a person who desires to exercise control or power over someone else power under a mutually agreed set of conditions. Being dominant is an attitude or behavior. People can be trained or developed into very effective Dominants.

3. A Master, IN MY OPINION, is a person who knows in his/her heart that his/her very nature is to exercise complete control over, and care for, the lives of others.

4. IN MY OPINION, if a person who knows in his heart that s/he is a Master and waits for formal acknowledgement from the community or some external "authority", they will be waiting for a very, very, very long time. Some people seem to make a great fuss about this "tradition" but they don't seem to make as much about the other "old guard tradition" that a Master had to spend time as a slave to learn what mastery was all about. (Note: I discovered the M/s lifestyle during the Old Guard's heyday and I am a product of it. I spent several years as a submissive even though it was not in my nature because it was "expected." I have gone through the rites of passage and I don't have to prove it to anyone.)

So, to sum up: Is a dom always considered a "master?" Answer: NO (IN MY OPINION).

I welcome debate from anyone who believes that the statements above are NOT MY OPINION.


(in reply to howthingsare)
Profile   Post #: 107
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 9/9/2009 1:10:19 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shack Some people seem to make a great fuss about this "tradition" but they don't seem to make as much about the other "old guard tradition" that a Master had to spend time as a slave to learn what mastery was all about. (Note: I discovered the M/s lifestyle during the Old Guard's heyday and I am a product of it. I spent several years as a submissive even though it was not in my nature because it was "expected." I have gone through the rites of passage and I don't have to prove it to anyone.)


i believe this what me and one or two others have been saying all along. it is no different than earning your karate belt, and learning from a mentor as an apprentice. well it is different but the same concept.

if you ask Vi from the leather archives or perhaps guy baldwin. they may tell you the "guard" is still alive and being passed on, thats the impression i had gotten from them

(in reply to Shack)
Profile   Post #: 108
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 9/9/2009 6:37:56 PM   
leadership527


Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shack
I welcome debate from anyone who believes that the statements above are NOT MY OPINION.
*laughs* Of course my head immediately started spinning up arguments about how it wasn't actually your opinion. For instance, are you SURE you formed this opinion all on your own? I mean... if you got it from someone else, then isn't it really more THEIR opinion that you stole? I could probably go on like that for hours in the right mood.


_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Shack)
Profile   Post #: 109
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 9/9/2009 8:02:00 PM   
Sunnyfey


Posts: 1436
Joined: 9/21/2007
From: OK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65
if you are talking cause i smack a two year old down. then so be it. someone with two years experience of anything should not be doing anything but eyes/ears open, mouth shut. but that is just my arrogant nature of speaking down to the plebs again. next week i will be serving bread crumbs, so line up early

cheers



I think I've asked you this question before, in past threads and you did not answer me then either, but I'm in a mood tonight so why not?

Are you saying then that the first 2 years you were in the lifestyle, that you were a shitty Dom?


_____________________________

Resident Hell Cat



(in reply to masterlink65)
Profile   Post #: 110
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 9/9/2009 9:47:24 PM   
masterlink65


Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sunnyfey

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65
if you are talking cause i smack a two year old down. then so be it. someone with two years experience of anything should not be doing anything but eyes/ears open, mouth shut. but that is just my arrogant nature of speaking down to the plebs again. next week i will be serving bread crumbs, so line up early

cheers



I think I've asked you this question before, in past threads and you did not answer me then either, but I'm in a mood tonight so why not?

Are you saying then that the first 2 years you were in the lifestyle, that you were a shitty Dom?




what i was saying was. the first several years, i kept my mouth shut, and my eyes and ears open. i never said anyone was a shitty dom. what i have also been trying to say is,,,, that someone who lays claim to having learned everything in one year is something i would have to see to believe, and with only a couple years experience ,, why would you want to argue or criticize someone with a lot more experience than you? i never said i was an expert, i never said i knew everything. i like to try to leave room for learning whatever level of expertise i may have and in all aspects of my life.

did that quell your mood? that should at least be a sufficient answer to your question. and if you read what you quoted of me, your answer has already been answered.


so maybe this is a better answer, if you are a youngster, then sit down and shut up, take notes.

(in reply to Sunnyfey)
Profile   Post #: 111
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 9/10/2009 6:31:32 AM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shack


Is a dom always considered a "master?" There have been many interesting responses here, and, IN MY OPINION, all of them are right for the person who posted them. Nevertheless, I would like to add some comments that represent MY PERSONAL OPINION.

1. IN MY OPINION, a Dom is not necessarily a Master. A Master is always dominant.

2. A Dominant, IN MY OPINION, is a person who desires to exercise control or power over someone else power under a mutually agreed set of conditions. Being dominant is an attitude or behavior. People can be trained or developed into very effective Dominants.

3. A Master, IN MY OPINION, is a person who knows in his/her heart that his/her very nature is to exercise complete control over, and care for, the lives of others.

4. IN MY OPINION, if a person who knows in his heart that s/he is a Master and waits for formal acknowledgement from the community or some external "authority", they will be waiting for a very, very, very long time. Some people seem to make a great fuss about this "tradition" but they don't seem to make as much about the other "old guard tradition" that a Master had to spend time as a slave to learn what mastery was all about. (Note: I discovered the M/s lifestyle during the Old Guard's heyday and I am a product of it. I spent several years as a submissive even though it was not in my nature because it was "expected." I have gone through the rites of passage and I don't have to prove it to anyone.)

So, to sum up: Is a dom always considered a "master?" Answer: NO (IN MY OPINION).

I welcome debate from anyone who believes that the statements above are NOT MY OPINION.



It might be your opinion, but your opinion is not especially correct.

There are many of us in the new generation of leather who have not served a house, but rather served a community.  Our time was better spent being who we really are, rather than who we hoped to be.

To Me, learning Mastery was not something I acquired because I knelt.  Rather, it was because I stood up.


_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

Please do not send me email here. Unless I know you, I will delete the email unread

(in reply to Shack)
Profile   Post #: 112
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 9/12/2009 9:51:04 AM   
MasterSSSS


Posts: 2
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline 		I do not know if this has been discussed previously, but in my personal experience we as humans (more often than not) end up allowing ourselves to become intrinsically identified WITHIN two distinct parameters. First, by what we believe we are, and second, by what OTHERS believe we are. One can believe that he or she is a Master/Mistress, but it is only when others confirm that same belief in their own psyche, that the magic happens and internal realities change. This personal identification can happen on many different levels both in the conscious and the unconscious mind and at all levels of scope including, culture, nurture, and genetic disposition.

Let us use a silly example...I can tell you all that I am Jesus reborn, and you would all only open yourselves up to the idea completely when I consistently reinforced the idea through our interactions. (i.e.Walking on water, making the blind see, etc.) Thus, anyone can label themselves anything they may like, but they only truly become that "thing" when others identify completely with that label as well. They may have the innate DESIRE or disposition to be as such, but it only becomes true when the reaction and fusion take place within the minds of those involved.

Now, let us take this discussion directly into our lifestyle...For instance,  I believe that I am a Dominant Male with a wealth of experience training, teaching, and caring for submissive females. I have identified myself by many things in the past based on the current relationship and interaction (i.e. Master, Daddy, Sir, Lord, etc.) However, I can, and have, only acquire the role of Master when the one I care for truly BELIEVES me a Master within her own schema as defined by her own logic.

Without the time, depth, closeness, and unique variables in our particular interaction, the roles of Master and slave would not compute or make sense no matter how much my soul reminded me of my innate desire to live as a Master. Indeed, One must forge and purify his or her own actions and soul in this world in order for others to see them as filled with the essence of what is sought by THEMSELVES.

Granted, ANY of us could act "as if", but we can only BECOME these roles when both people are in alignment within their own individual framework and those individual schema line up in harmony without any doubt or disruption in the belief that they are, in fact, a Master and a slave to each other respectively. If we behave with integrity and truly follow our Desire to BE (whatever that means for each individual), and we are consistent and in harmony with what it is to be a Master, then we will be a Master to those who identify with us and seek to follow us on our path and in our journey to at worst, complacency, or at best, ascension or nirvana.

I believe this logic carries over to all aspects of life, not just the lifestyle. It is indeed a holistic and all encompassing approach. I hope that my words were clear, and I hope that they may be of some worth within the confines of this discussion. Keep in mind that these words are my own, and I am in know way looking to take away from anything that any of you hold to dearly. I end by saying to each his own, and to thine own self be true.

Take care everyone.

M. Shaper

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 113
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 9/16/2009 8:31:34 AM   
MasterSSSS


Posts: 2
Joined: 10/17/2007
Status: offline 		I guess the discussion was over by the time I saw this thread. lol. 

(in reply to MasterSSSS)
Profile   Post #: 114
RE: Is a dom always considered a "master?" - 9/20/2009 10:10:38 PM   
MMagic


Posts: 183
Joined: 2/9/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: howthingsare

Hi there - just joined after reading through the forums.  Lots of interesting information out there so far.

I'm a dominant person in relationships - whether they be emotional, physical, or both.  I've never considered myself a "master" of any person (I suppose the word invokes images of lots of leather, rope, and whips).
But, I've been in a few relationships in which I am expected to be the sole decision maker.  I'm expected to expect that what I say goes.  And I've enjoyed that - it's how and why I'm exploring more about this lifestyle.

I suppose I haven't read too much about the lines between taking and holding the reins, and also having a "normal" emotional/romantic relationship.

I'm confused (I'm not even sure I'm posting this in the right area - but am hoping masters can help me on this one).
An ideal relationship for me entails mutual respect, and a strong understanding that things are the way I choose (but the respect comes into play - I'd never choose anything she didn't wish simply to be an ass - only what I thought was best).
But I'd also like it if, at the same time, she had her own opinions about everyday life and wasn't afraid to share thoughts and feelings and desires, as any everyday couple on the street might.

Am I a bit too picky?  Or am I mistakenly making a general assumption that most "devoted" subs end up seeming like mindless sex zombies?  Sorry for any incorrect preconceived notions that may offend anybody - but that's why I'm here - to learn.

Anxiously awaiting helpful/critical/etc input.  Thank you. 



I was told that they (Master and Dom) are the same thing, and was in fact expected to be a mindless sex zombie, BUT thanks to the lovely community here I know that this is not correct.  Good luck in finding your one who is everything you want.


_____________________________

Between two evils, I always pick the one I never tried before. -Mae West



(in reply to howthingsare)
Profile   Post #: 115
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