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RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 11:48:22 AM

CallaFirestormBW

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quote:

Dominating the weak, dull and dumb ain't no fun.

No, but dominating the pliant, consistent, and practical rather than intellectual -can- be. It all depends on how you see the people that you're entering into a relationship with.

The person that you see as 'weak', I am liable to see as trainable and pliant.

The person you see as 'dull', I am liable to see as consistent.

The person you see as 'dumb' I am liable to see as practically or bodily-oriented, rather than intellectually/mentally oriented.

In all of those cases, there can be a place for them where they can succeed and where healthy leadership can provide structure, guidance, and direction in which to grow that can be -very- rewarding to be a part of, from the dominant end of the relationship.

Dame Calla

_____________________________

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Post #: 21

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 11:49:11 AM

ranja

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well if it most certainly ain't a lack of humour then as shorebound mentioned it must be their own insecurity which is dreadfully unfunny as well.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 22

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 12:22:47 PM

rideemwet

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OP - I believe there is a tendency for people to want what they can't have. Even with maturity it can take someone time to realize they're enthralled with something that is unobtainable (or something that they don't want the consequences of acquiring). One way of dealing with that situation is to shift the blame, perhaps just an internal attitude shift, sour grapes. Could this be what you're seeing?

You refer to it in the context of a "M/s relation". While it's just a label, perhaps the implication of "D/s" is closer to what you're seeking?

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 23

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 12:45:17 PM

Musicmystery

Posts: 30259
Joined: 3/14/2005
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quote:

I expect, if a person calls themselves a Master, that they therefore are.

If you are truly serious, then this is an incredibly naive stance, and one contradicted on the forums alone almost daily.

What seems instead to be true is that you are complaining, not asking, and that you've decided on the answer long before you posted, perhaps in hope of sympathy or validation. Who knows.

I can tell you that I've seen some girls continually apply whatever cultural cliche they find in vogue to relationship after relationship before the cliche would even have time to manifest, thus weeding out all their suitors, who wisely see the problem and move on to saner partners, allowing the girl to point to the results as evidence that she's merely a victim of the cliche.

Pointing that out to them, of course, would prove futile, as they only dismiss what lies outside their perceived reality.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 24

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 12:47:09 PM

maturesub42

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Joined: 1/22/2009
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You are just a normal woman, like so many of us. Successful socially speaking, on our knees in the bedroom. What's wrong with that ?

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 25

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 12:47:23 PM

Prinsexx

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rideemwet

OP - I believe there is a tendency for people to want what they can't have. Even with maturity it can take someone time to realize they're enthralled with something that is unobtainable (or something that they don't want the consequences of acquiring).

I'm a cheap date in almost all respects. The only level at which I am high maintenance is the emotional level. I admit to it.
The consequences of collaring me have been, and are likely therefore to remain being, emotional fall out. Emotional discharge. Emotional expression. The consequence perhaps of having to do so much on my own.
My emotions wax and wane.
There's a cost and a pay off.
Is that too high a price for acquiring me? Rhetorical question.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 7/26/2009 12:48:44 PM >

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Post #: 26

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 1:43:43 PM

leadership527

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Well Prinsexx, I'm going to cop to "I don't have a clue from a dominant's perspective." The very thing you're describing is how I see my wife. I have no need or desire to "bring Carol to her knees". I just want her to obey which she seems to manage just fine without any need to put her in her place. My expectation of any sub would be simply that... that she obeys ME. How she interacts with the rest of the world would be a general part of that "chemistry" thing that I would see as entirely irelevant to the question of me. Carol is generally submissive. Another dear sub friend of mine is generally dominant in her life but submits to her Master. *shrugs*. Either works for me.

The only speculation I have has to do with just plain statistics. There are never enough real leaders to go around in any venue. D/s is no different. Real leaders appreciate competent subordinates. It is generally those who are not fully comfortable with their leadership that are threatened by competent subordinates. Just on raw statistics alone (and assuming some studies I've read are in the ball park), then 1:20 dominants will be a "natural leader". The other 19:20 are going to have varying degrees of trouble dealing with a truly competent submissive. Even if you allow for a selection bias in who decides to be a BDSM dom to start with, the odds are still a bit grim. The numbers game is unrelenting. In business, I ran a team of 14 people. So for every "natural leader", there were 14 followers.... still not the 1:20 number but not too bad. In BDSM, it's a 1:1 relationship... ouch.

_____________________________

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I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 27

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 1:57:29 PM

Prinsexx

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quote:

ORIGINAL: leadership527

Well Prinsexx, I'm going to cop to "I don't have a clue from a dominant's perspective." The very thing you're describing is how I see my wife. I have no need or desire to "bring Carol to her knees". I just want her to obey which she seems to manage just fine without any need to put her in her place. My expectation of any sub would be simply that... that she obeys ME. How she interacts with the rest of the world would be a general part of that "chemistry" thing that I would see as entirely irelevant to the question of me. Carol is generally submissive. Another dear sub friend of mine is generally dominant in her life but submits to her Master. *shrugs*. Either works for me.

The only speculation I have has to do with just plain statistics. There are never enough real leaders to go around in any venue. D/s is no different. Real leaders appreciate competent subordinates. It is generally those who are not fully comfortable with their leadership that are threatened by competent subordinates. Just on raw statistics alone (and assuming some studies I've read are in the ball park), then 1:20 dominants will be a "natural leader". The other 19:20 are going to have varying degrees of trouble dealing with a truly competent submissive. Even if you allow for a selection bias in who decides to be a BDSM dom to start with, the odds are still a bit grim. The numbers game is unrelenting. In business, I ran a team of 14 people. So for every "natural leader", there were 14 followers.... still not the 1:20 number but not too bad. In BDSM, it's a 1:1 relationship... ouch.

Well let's be optimistic and say it's poly and 1 to 14? That's in line with statistics but a harem of 14 takes some leadership skills....

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Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

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Post #: 28

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 2:11:08 PM

windchymes

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I'm going to throw another theory into the mix, it's not directed at anyone in particular, just a "human nature" point of view....

Perhaps when we get positive feedback from the other person about a trait we have, we think, wow, he/she really likes me when I do this, so I'll do it more/harder/more intensely, etc. It might be consciously or sub-consciously. But then, maybe it then becomes overkill, too much, overbearing, or something of the sort and thus becomes a turn off?

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(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 29

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 2:57:33 PM

rideemwet

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Joined: 6/12/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
Well let's be optimistic and say it's poly and 1 to 14? That's in line with statistics but a harem of 14 takes some leadership skills....

Its already been said in different ways, but it sounds like you're a complex person that is going to take the right Dom to work with, and not in a one size fits all approach, or even something as simple as leadership skills. (I'm not discounting leadership skills, just saying I think a good leader for one sub may not be as good for another). That should be to your credit even if it makes your life a bit more difficult.

If you go by random selection, have you just not tried out enough partners?

If you go by something more selective, then is there a consistent flaw in your selection process?

A complex personality is going to take more time for all of the facets of that personality to come in to play, and therefore may just need to concede that it is going to take some time to find what works for you. Put on your successful business hat and go after it that way if you need to, learn what you can and make what you can out of it.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 30

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 3:01:55 PM

Apocalypso

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Joined: 4/20/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx
It's strange isn't it that as yet no Doms have come forward to answer this?

Quite honestly, it's because while I've seen the issue you describe, I don't really understand why it happens. It's completely alien to me as a concept.

The only thing I can think of is that if you have a dom who's insecure, they might be secretly worried that the submissive is going to leave them. In which case what was attractive to them might feel like it was going to attract other doms who were 'better'.

It's kinda like the whole "making a submissive feel worthless" for me. I know it does it for some folk and good on them. But personally I can't really grasp the concept emotionally, so all I can do is speculate intellectually why that could be.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 31

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 3:12:59 PM

ShoreBound149

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Joined: 7/2/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

Dominating the weak, dull and dumb ain't no fun.

The person that you see as 'weak', I am liable to see as trainable and pliant.

The person you see as 'dull', I am liable to see as consistent.

The person you see as 'dumb' I am liable to see as practically or bodily-oriented, rather than intellectually/mentally oriented.

Dame Calla

And now for the reply that makes it into 88.8% of the threads on here......."It's a matter of personal preference."

_____________________________

"People don't think it be like it is, but it do."

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(in reply to CallaFirestormBW)

Post #: 32

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 4:20:26 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

I expect, if a person calls themselves a Master, that they therefore are.

If you are truly serious, then this is an incredibly naive stance, and one contradicted on the forums alone almost daily.

What seems instead to be true is that you are complaining, not asking, and that you've decided on the answer long before you posted, perhaps in hope of sympathy or validation. Who knows.

I can tell you that I've seen some girls continually apply whatever cultural cliche they find in vogue to relationship after relationship before the cliche would even have time to manifest, thus weeding out all their suitors, who wisely see the problem and move on to saner partners, allowing the girl to point to the results as evidence that she's merely a victim of the cliche.

Pointing that out to them, of course, would prove futile, as they only dismiss what lies outside their perceived reality.

I'm very aware of a self-fulfilling prophecy. And we all, which, with all due respect, includes you, dismiss what lies outside of our perceived realities. That I expect those who describe themselves as Masters to be Masters was not a statement of naivety.

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to Musicmystery)

Post #: 33

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 4:27:07 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: windchymes

I'm going to throw another theory into the mix, it's not directed at anyone in particular, just a "human nature" point of view....

Perhaps when we get positive feedback from the other person about a trait we have, we think, wow, he/she really likes me when I do this, so I'll do it more/harder/more intensely, etc. It might be consciously or sub-consciously. But then, maybe it then becomes overkill, too much, overbearing, or something of the sort and thus becomes a turn off?

U inderstand and accept that there is a great deal of behavioural reinforcement in the exchange between partners. This is indeed human nature and not peculiar or particular to this microcosm of a world known as bdsm.
I was refferring I think more to what attracts a person at the beginning of a relationship, say whe someone reads a profile. And to get real i can only speak about when people read mine.
My profile here is as clsoe as i can make it as a descriptor of who i am. Pics ar recent and updated. It's 'arty'...you know coloured type and centred etc....I was a graphic designer for nine years and so on.. and my journal gets updated as I write stuff...
but you know the strengths I have seem to become something else.... I'm getting near the point of quitting collarme. I don't know what finction it serves anymore.
Just a whine and a winge.....

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to windchymes)

Post #: 34

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 4:32:39 PM

Prinsexx

Posts: 4584
Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rideemwet

If you go by random selection, have you just not tried out enough partners?

I was going to say I've had more doms than I have had hot dinners...but really don't want to give the wrong impression.
Well what's true is that my mother didn't feed me right when I was a child....

quote:

ORIGINAL: rideemwet
If you go by something more selective, then is there a consistent flaw in your selection process?

Yes.
I believe we have to start off as equal?
I have to respect them intellectually and find them physically attractive.
Both of these criterion for selection are obviously way flawed.....

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to rideemwet)

Post #: 35

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/26/2009 4:38:52 PM

Prinsexx

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Joined: 8/27/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Apocalypso

The only thing I can think of is that if you have a dom who's insecure, they might be secretly worried that the submissive is going to leave them. In which case what was attractive to them might feel like it was going to attract other doms who were 'better'.

I think I have experienced this. Pretty certain I have.
I once agreed to have a joint profile together with my 'owner' now an ex.
He wanted other play partners. That was because I had asked if this would be possible and not because it was driven by a poly need in him. It was for play.
But he did insist on using the very worst pics of me and not those I would have chosen that portrayed me in my best light r indeed the pics in which I looked most attractive.
I felt it was insecurity. I remember thinking he didn't want me poached.

< Message edited by Prinsexx -- 7/26/2009 4:39:13 PM >

_____________________________

Owner of asterion

Metawhore.... the sound of a metaphore when gagged
Free woman
Resident thread finisher
To my stalker:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LN2lP_7J7GI&feature=fvwrel

(in reply to Apocalypso)

Post #: 36

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/27/2009 6:31:18 AM

lally2

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i havent read all of this through, but its a question ive asked myelf once or twice, in terms of 'what do people want ffs'

ive come to the conclusion, the men who are attracted to strong intelligent women possibly find the disparity or maybe the 'conquest' of said woman when she slips into submission, a bit confusing, hard to handle, unsure what to do with after that.

i dont turn into a soppy wimp or anything, but in submission my opinions, thoughts, prefferances, voice is quietened down.

they want the strength and intelligence but i dont think see the strength and intelligence once the strong intelligent woman is kneeling naked before him.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 37

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/27/2009 7:08:38 AM

daintydimples

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Great thread! This is something I have thought about a lot, since I have experienced it as well. I am a strong, intelligent, successful female. Emotionally I would have to describe myself as "intense."

I tend to be attracted to the alpha Dom types. Some of them are very attracted to me, at first. I think they see me as a challenge. They constantly seek to explore and exploit my vulnerabilities. The goal appears to be to "bring me down."

Once I have submitted, I tend to be very submissive. And I think this duality in my nature is ...shocking? unexpected? I can't answer that since the rare times this has happened their thoughts were not something they were willing to share with me.

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Post #: 38

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/27/2009 7:35:26 AM

sravaka

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Very interesting thread.... I've encountered this sort of thing too, both in D/s and in vanilla relationships.

I used to divide doms who seek smart/competent chicks into three groups.

1. those whose sense of power is tied to the ability to destroy things... and who think the "bigger" the thing they can destroy the more badass they are.

2. those who are attracted to resumes rather than substance. As in, cool! she's a professor of wacky obscure stuff! I want to say I bagged one of those! Just don't ask me to put up with (or even hear about) the day to day reality of her career. That's her problem. And if she can't manage it, it's obviously because she's a bad sub.

3. those who genuinely want to have smart/competent people in their worlds, as partners and generally, who are not threatened, who do not see a conflict between competence and submissiveness (though they may be interested in rechanneling some of the competence for their own purposes).

There are probably other variations, but these 3 covered most of the population I encountered when I was still talking to random people. Guess which groups prevailed?

Eventually I learned to weed out the 1s and 2s more quickly, thereby cutting down on aggravation and/or distress. I think you might need to add some criteria to your list beyond physical attractiveness and smarts. It's not that the criteria are flawed, just that they aren't sufficient as filters.

< Message edited by sravaka -- 7/27/2009 7:37:42 AM >

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Post #: 39

RE: What attracts also repels? - 7/27/2009 7:51:21 AM

CreativeDominant

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prinsexx

I need to try to understand this from the dominant perspective.
I'm a strong, creative, intelligent woman.
I get a great deal of mail: some of the 'hiya wanna chat i wanna own you' type crap to the seriously considered.
Sometimes the mail I get surprises me, Like for instance the Dom who wrote and said he had copies parts of my profile and my journal to send to a friend because he was impressed. 'Fans' also who read when I add to my journal. That's great and has the potential to change a grey day into a day of sunshine.
BUT why is it that what so attracts others (not only to me but to women I suppose like me) also repels?
OK to make it clearer: I run a house, I teach/lecture, I write and am in the process of setting up a publishing house. That seems to attract some very interesting dominants but then what is it in that which also repels them? Is it because a Dominant wants to bring me to my knees but to be able to do so they want to stop me being those things? That they feel I would have no time for the relationship or to serve them?
This is not just peculiar to the lifestyle but has also happened to me during vanilla marriage when I was expected to exist within the paradox of being powerful yet also just the llittle woman at home.
It just so happens that it is far more crystallised within the dynamic of M/s.
So why is it that what attracts also repels? Would really appreciate understanding more about this.

Good question with some good answers here. I can't speak for anyone else definitively so let me speak for me, from my perspective as a dominant.

I appreciate a competent submissive woman. My first submissive was the business manager of the dental clinic she worked at and at home, she was the dominant partner in marital matters, not her husband. His dominance occurred outside the home. What attracted me, besides her looks-personality-character-intelligence-emotional stability, was the contradiction of her submission to me versus her dominance over all other situations. Tis been mentioned on here that for some dominants, that...the outer world dominance replaced by submission when within their presence... is a difficult and confusing thing to deal with and I guess that shows that there all kinds of variations on this side of the whip. For me, it is attractive.

What repels me is something you did mention...emotional complexity of a sort wherein I never know from day to day where those emotions are going to be. What some people see as "dull" in terms of emotional variety, I see...like Dame Calla...as healthy stability when the emotional reactions...the feelings about something, including me...are more or less predictable. I want to know that she is going to love me today in the same way...if not more...as she did yesterday. I want to know that it is not going to take some minor thing to set her off on an emotional soul-search. I'd rather that soul-searching be done over something major or over something I've asked her to probe within herself. What repels me is the submissive who can be so very competent and intelligent in the outside world and yet bring a "dumbed-down" attitude to her submission, mistakenly thinking that it is part of submission. Again, some dominants like that...I don't. I want the same intelligent outlook they bring to their job, their family, their friends to be brought to their submission to me. What repels me is the submissive woman who will dress up for her friends and colleagues and family members but who thinks/assumes that when around me, her mode of dress is going to be "naked". It isn't. I appreciate a well-dressed woman as much as her friends and family and co-workers do. I appreciate the submissive who understands that sometimes, it is what is hidden and yet revealed that is most sexy to me. What repels me is the submissive who, while getting to know her and who, once she is developing a deeper interest in you, displays her sexuality and sensuality combined with her submission but who, once she is yours, begins to let all direction of sexuality be only at my command. That is the one who didn't listen when I said that I expect a submissive who is not only open to her own sexuality but actively looks for ways to express it to be able to behave in that same manner when mine. The cutting off of that "seduction" reminds me too much of sooooooooooooo many vanilla women who are "hot to trot" while being pursued but who, once they have been caught, become lukewarm. I know that for many submissives, it is because they have turned over all sexuality aspects to their dominant but where does it state that yielding of control over their sexual life means that they are no longer a creature imbued with the same wants/desires and the ability to express those that they were before control?

These are the sorts of things that repel me...not competence, not intelligence, not the ability to rule the world outside of the D/s dynamic I share with her. What might repel me about that is the inability to set that facet of their personality aside and turn the facet of submission to me without some sort of prodding on my part. If the submission must be constantly prodded, then there would be difficulty but not necessarily repulsion UNLESS it were to continue to be so.

(in reply to Prinsexx)

Post #: 40

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